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On August 11 2012 12:11 Flakes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 12:06 Chargelot wrote:On August 11 2012 12:04 ElvisWayCool wrote:On August 11 2012 11:59 Keitzer wrote:
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Honestly... I don't see why it really matters.
Unless you're running a meth lab out of your kitchen or making bombs in someone's basement, there's no reason for them to do ANYTHING EVER with this information..
It's about preventing things before they get out of hand. And to be honest, unless there's something big they're planning like Mind Control, then fuck it! Who cares! I'd be pissed if I got flashed at one of those red light cameras, then a cop found me at Home Depot a week later because they saw me walk inside on a camera. It just gives the government a lot of power, it's everyone's decision to choose if it's too much power or not. I agree with you though: don't break the rules, and you have to reason to fear the ref. The red light camera takes a picture of your license plates, which can be used to identify you. They then send your fine to you in the mail. They don't need to actuate a mutli-thousand dollar man hunt and dedicate their computer's precious resources towards tracking you down and dispatching police to come after you because you ran a red light. Unless you've also torrented an mp3, then you're pretty much screwed
Implying they know you torrented ANYTHING. I know you can put trackers on IP's, Torrents, etc, but to do that for each person is stupid. This system is MADE for BIG stuff.. like trying to catch people on the Most Wanted list. Or profiling minorities and background checking on the fly to see if they've done anything illegal, and if so, they know where to find him!
It's not (hopefully) about pinning everyone up against a wall with a flashlight to the eye yelling "DID YOU TAKE THE COOKIE FROM THE COOKIE JAR?!? HUH!? DID YA!??!"....
And if so... well then 2045 (the immortality project date) better get here a little sooner so I can make my way to another planet. Cuz America is kind of large globally.
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On August 11 2012 12:06 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 12:04 ElvisWayCool wrote:On August 11 2012 11:59 Keitzer wrote:
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Honestly... I don't see why it really matters.
Unless you're running a meth lab out of your kitchen or making bombs in someone's basement, there's no reason for them to do ANYTHING EVER with this information..
It's about preventing things before they get out of hand. And to be honest, unless there's something big they're planning like Mind Control, then fuck it! Who cares! I'd be pissed if I got flashed at one of those red light cameras, then a cop found me at Home Depot a week later because they saw me walk inside on a camera. It just gives the government a lot of power, it's everyone's decision to choose if it's too much power or not. I agree with you though: don't break the rules, and you have to reason to fear the ref. The red light camera takes a picture of your license plates, which can be used to identify you. They then send your fine to you in the mail. They don't need to actuate a mutli-thousand dollar man hunt and dedicate their computer's precious resources towards tracking you down and dispatching police to come after you because you ran a red light.
I know how the process works. I also know you don't have to pay the fine if they don't serve it to you. Mailing doesn't count as serving. If they mail it to you, and you throw it away, they may send a public servant to your house to serve you the fine.
But why would they go through all that trouble if they knew I'd go shopping in the next week and they would see me as soon as I stepped inside a store?
Also, the photo system doesn't work well by identifying just your license plate. If I cover my face and run a red right now, I can say someone else was driving my car, and I'm off the hook. However, f they can identify my face wherever I go, they can catch my car with the camera, then see if I show up at any store near by (or in the direction I was going) and connect the dots to say I was the one driving.
I'm waiting for my ticket in the mail right now, so I've been doing my research. Please tell me if I made a mistake. If I didn't, I believe my point stands.
On August 11 2012 12:15 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 12:11 Flakes wrote:On August 11 2012 12:06 Chargelot wrote:On August 11 2012 12:04 ElvisWayCool wrote:On August 11 2012 11:59 Keitzer wrote:
...
Honestly... I don't see why it really matters.
Unless you're running a meth lab out of your kitchen or making bombs in someone's basement, there's no reason for them to do ANYTHING EVER with this information..
It's about preventing things before they get out of hand. And to be honest, unless there's something big they're planning like Mind Control, then fuck it! Who cares! I'd be pissed if I got flashed at one of those red light cameras, then a cop found me at Home Depot a week later because they saw me walk inside on a camera. It just gives the government a lot of power, it's everyone's decision to choose if it's too much power or not. I agree with you though: don't break the rules, and you have to reason to fear the ref. The red light camera takes a picture of your license plates, which can be used to identify you. They then send your fine to you in the mail. They don't need to actuate a mutli-thousand dollar man hunt and dedicate their computer's precious resources towards tracking you down and dispatching police to come after you because you ran a red light. Unless you've also torrented an mp3, then you're pretty much screwed Implying they know you torrented ANYTHING. I know you can put trackers on IP's, Torrents, etc, but to do that for each person is stupid. This system is MADE for BIG stuff.. like trying to catch people on the Most Wanted list. Or profiling minorities and background checking on the fly to see if they've done anything illegal, and if so, they know where to find him! It's not (hopefully) about pinning everyone up against a wall with a flashlight to the eye yelling "DID YOU TAKE THE COOKIE FROM THE COOKIE JAR?!? HUH!? DID YA!??!".... And if so... well then 2045 (the immortality project date) better get here a little sooner so I can make my way to another planet. Cuz America is kind of large globally.
I like how you went from: "This system is..." to "It's not (hopefully) ..." Really shows that your adding your own opinion to your argument without any backup. This system could be used for anything. You don't know, I don't know. So, right now, we have to assume it will be used for anything, since it can be.
Also, my friends get letters all the time telling them to stop torrenting because they're popping up on someone's radar. I would think endangering people's lives by recklessly running a red light is worse than a torrent.
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I would love to see more information on this that doesn't come from wikileaks.
Though I'm in the minority of people who would actually support a rigorously ethical implementation of mass surveillance (surveillance is a tool which can be, and has been, used for good rather than evil) ... Even I have major qualms about what this leak has revealed.
I do not like governments acting in secret, with no vote or public discourse, to enable mass surveillance of their population. That this is all being enacted in secrecy, and with counterterrorism as a justification, is a very bad sign.
The correct way to increase surveillance would be to integrate the new systems into existing law enforcement and judicial frameworks, with ethical oversight, a code of privacy and rights laws in place to prevent abuse, and public/media discourse and awareness to keep those abuses that do occur to an acceptable minimum. The recent thread about a proposed surveillance network in the European Union is a decent example of this.
The US version is basically "let's set this shit up in secret, have a bunch of private companies and intel agencies run it and do whatever they like without any oversight or checks in place... Later we can shift the blame to them."
Does not bode very well for the general populace over here.
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On August 11 2012 09:06 Liquid`Drone wrote:
If true, how is this not big news? Global surveillance with facial recognition? You're fine with someone knowing where you are and what you're doing at every moment? There's absolutely no way any possible terrorist or other threat justifies this gross invasion of privacy, and that's that.
I don't have time to really investigate this now but based on OP, this is terrible, and the most important leak from wikileaks so far.
Um, anyone who didn't assume this was already happening was just being willfully ignorant. We have no rights, and haven't had any in 150 years. After the civil war people became sheep and completely ignored the fact we have the right to abolish the government. They sign petitions, protest, and make shitty reddit posts instead of doing anything that actually matters.
Governments will always oppress its subjects and disregard their rights as long as they rule sheep, and who can blame them. Do you blame the Sheppard for herding his sheep? Do you blame the dogs for keeping the sheep scared and in check? Sheep are sheep.
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Russian Federation19 Posts
On August 11 2012 12:20 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 09:06 Liquid`Drone wrote:
If true, how is this not big news? Global surveillance with facial recognition? You're fine with someone knowing where you are and what you're doing at every moment? There's absolutely no way any possible terrorist or other threat justifies this gross invasion of privacy, and that's that.
I don't have time to really investigate this now but based on OP, this is terrible, and the most important leak from wikileaks so far. Um, anyone who didn't assume this was already happening was just being willfully ignorant. We have no rights, and haven't had any in 150 years. After the civil war people became sheep and completely ignored the fact we have the right to abolish the government. They sign petitions, protest, and make shitty reddit posts instead of doing anything that actually matters. Governments will always oppress its subjects and disregard their rights as long as they rule sheep, and who can blame them. Do you blame the Sheppard for herding his sheep? Do you blame the dogs for keeping the sheep scared and in check? Sheep are sheep.
What did I just... I just can't.... oh god.. I feel sorry for you honestly.
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On August 11 2012 12:17 ElvisWayCool wrote:
I like how you went from: "This system is..." to "It's not (hopefully) ..." Really shows that your adding your own opinion to your argument without any backup. This system could be used for anything. You don't know, I don't know. So, right now, we have to assume it will be used for anything, since it can be.
Also, my friends get letters all the time telling them to stop torrenting because they're popping up on someone's radar. I would think endangering people's lives by recklessly running a red light is worse than a torrent.
Lol... ya... well I'm on the positive side of things, which is why I'm promoting this as a "nothing can go wrong" idea.
However... When something can go wrong, it will. And as of right now, as far as we know, nothing has... And i'm not entirely convinced something can either....
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On August 11 2012 12:20 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 09:06 Liquid`Drone wrote:
If true, how is this not big news? Global surveillance with facial recognition? You're fine with someone knowing where you are and what you're doing at every moment? There's absolutely no way any possible terrorist or other threat justifies this gross invasion of privacy, and that's that.
I don't have time to really investigate this now but based on OP, this is terrible, and the most important leak from wikileaks so far. Um, anyone who didn't assume this was already happening was just being willfully ignorant. We have no rights, and haven't had any in 150 years. After the civil war people became sheep and completely ignored the fact we have the right to abolish the government. They sign petitions, protest, and make shitty reddit posts instead of doing anything that actually matters. Governments will always oppress its subjects and disregard their rights as long as they rule sheep, and who can blame them. Do you blame the Sheppard for herding his sheep? Do you blame the dogs for keeping the sheep scared and in check? Sheep are sheep.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
You forgot that part that comes after "you can abolish the government, dude".
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Edit: oops, hadn't realize that was already in the op.
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On August 11 2012 11:52 ireverie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 11:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On August 11 2012 09:06 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On August 11 2012 09:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 11 2012 09:03 SergioCQH wrote:
Uh, if true, so what? How is this big news? Never read 1984 I assume? 1984 was a lot more than watching people. The point is that one of the dangers in 1984 is becoming present in our society, and thus it is possible that more things in 1984 could become true in the future. Not really. Orwell warned society that 1984 could develop in the modern world. Soviet Union was a perfect example of 1984 (basically because 1984 is based upon the idea of USSR), do you see a lot of Soviet Union in the US?
What Vindicare605 is saying is that the reason why this is big news is because this brings us closer to what is seen in 1984. However, blitzkrieg0 seems to have midunderstood his point. Vindicare605 is not saying that 1984 is already true, which blitzkrieg0 seems to be commenting on since he contradicts that false notion by saying that 1984 includes more than just watching people. I don't see how USSR relates to this.
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On August 11 2012 12:44 Zahir wrote:
Edit: oops, hadn't realize that was already in the op.
That was probably the best Article I've ready, Iloved the ending hahahahaha.
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i cannot wait for the official "response" to this.
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I imagine the speech writers and pr spin men in the white house are going to be pulling an all nighter on this one. I honestly can't wait to see the excuses, obfuscations and pointing everyone back to the ever convenient terrorist threat.
I have no idea how they're going to play this one. You just got caught with a massive already operational surveillance network set up entirely in secret, feeding info to private companies, which is purportedly linked in to tons of cameras nationwide... In a nation with one of the free-est presses and most paranoid citizens anywhere... What do you do?
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Wow, massive corporations know where I live, monitor me and all of my communications, and yet the damned VA still sends all of my mail to my previous military address instead of my home of record; despite having contacted them with both my current military status and address.
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On August 11 2012 11:52 Djzapz wrote:It isn't :/
In the security field this is hardly news considering the NSA's track record after 9/11.
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This cycle between anarchy and control will probably always exist. French Revolution, Communist Revolution. Socalist, Libertarian. Guantanamo, KKK. If you were one of the U.S.A.'s leaders when 9/11 happened, you'd probably feel pretty strongly about making sure it never happened again. As such, we seem to be heading in the direction of more control.
It's similar to the question of the perfect justice system (or trying to attain it). Is it okay to have one innocent man go to jail if that means doing what is necessary to put 99 guilty men there? I've often felt that's never justified, but how do the victims' families feel when killers go free? And what of the future victims and their families? That's not as easy to empathize with as the more simple act of imagining losing your own freedom. After all, we've been to school, and we've probably been grounded at some point, while most of us haven't lost a friend to violence, I hope.
As to the direction we're headed, I'd like to think people are more educated about history than in the past, and at least we can avoid any extremes like the guillotine or Stalin. Similarly, you'd think those in power also aware of the possibilities and will, at best, come to their senses. More likely, they'll build upon the guile of the ages.
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Wouldn't something like this be unconstitutional in pretty much every democracy out there? Just sayan. To all the "I don't care when they have my data LOL" guys.
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On August 11 2012 11:55 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 11:39 Maxd11 wrote:On August 11 2012 11:26 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 11 2012 11:20 mythandier wrote:
I can't say I care.
I'm still going to wake up, drive my nice car to work on Monday, work in my nice office, and go home to my hot wife and nice house in the suburbs and play some SC2 at some point in the week.
Despite what you might believe, everyone is not out to get you. You're just not that important. And there it is, why there isn't a reason to place faith in the people. You're the kind of person who would have been in Germany praising Hitler because no way big government can be bad, get real... It might not be there to be the boogeyman, but it puts its own interest ahead of others. You simply can't feel it because you've obviously been rather privileged, easy to be ignorant when you have not a worry. Not being paranoid≠no sense of morality. I can't even begin to understand how someone can compare supporting a mass murderer to simply not caring if there happens to be video footage of you somewhere that nobody but a computer will have access to unless you committed a serious crime. It has to start somewhere, ignorance allowed Hitler to gain power and once he did, well let's just say trying to stop him within Germany gave you a quick ticket to death. Once you allow power to freely be taken away, sure maybe it's not corrupt at first but if history has shown anything, power corrupts. I'd prefer to not let it get that far again.
I hate how everyone who disagrees with me seems to find a way to turn me into a genocide supporter. All I'm saying is knowing where I get my coffee isn't going to give anyone any power over me. But if it has the slightest chance of deterring or stopping a homicidal maniac it's good by me. I think it all comes around to the question "What do you have to hide?" If you don't then you simply shouldn't care.
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Ehh... Honestly, what does this change? Nothing. Everyone will still carry on with their same business. If you didn't think they were somehow monitoring before, than you are just naive.
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I might actually consider upgrading wikileaks from "please die" to "necessary evil" if this turns out to be true.
As for my government, well, it was already rated at "go fuck yourself", so I don't think I can downgrade it without turning into an anarchist.
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The airspace outside your windows is considered public space. Yes, they monitor you through your windows.
Anyone know how to tint your windows to block radiation?
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EPT
