On August 11 2012 10:59 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Exactly, that's the point and why Nuclear arms have stopped conflicts from occuring, watch Robert Macnamara's Documentary (11 lessons I believe) to see how close you and I were to not even existing.
I do understand that nuclear weapons have this tendency to keep a Status Quo and the cold war could have made shit hit the fan big time.
Even though this is a ridiculous hypothetical conversation, I think that even if the US invaded Canada you'd have every country in the world flipping the fuck out with all their guns toward the US but nobody would shoot.
After watching Robert Macnamara's documentary where he described everyone who was involved as rational individuals and that they quote "lucked out" makes me think that if this stupid thing happened (and something similar might cause the powder keg to blow that's been building for the past 30 years) that it will be again, down to luck.
On August 11 2012 11:01 Whitewing wrote: it's about who is doing the recording, and on what kind of scale, for what purpose.
Who would you be okay with recording you? Why does it matter if it is just you and your close friends or family being recorded or the entire world? Isn't the impact on the individual the same? Isn't that what people are concerned about.. how this will impact them? What purpose would that be? Are you sure you know what the purpose is or are you just assuming it will lead to something nefarious?
I knew this was the inevitable end result of all these cameras popping up everywhere but I didn't think they were already compiling this into a central network. It still seems like it would cost a huge amount of resources and effort with very little actual return or pay off. But once the system is in place it's gg no re. I'm gonna ditch the thread before I totally snap after reading someone post "I never done anything wrong so I don't care if they are monitoring me 24/7."
I find it almost laughable that people are worried and Lockheed Martin and Northrup Gruman. Did any of you stop to think that they could be using this information in a effort to stop industrial spying?
I mean its not like there are plenty of nations out there looking to gain an upper hand against US military aircraft superiority. Same goes for the chemical companies. Protection of the public is the domain of the government, if they want to improve way to help keep the public/ public spaces safe by all means go ahead.
God forbid they do something right with the system then whatever will we have to complain about...
I don't understand how this works. So basically these stupid cameras monitor locations and put a name to peoples face? Anyones face? How bout mine? I have no criminal record, etc.
I thought it was common knowledge that this was at the very least -possible-.
The PATRIOT Act and similar bills from nearly a decade ago allowed the U.S. government to collect vast amounts of data that was previously private or restricted to the company owning the equipment. It isn't much of a stretch to think that they'd want to centralize all of the data.
I obviously do oppose access for anyone besides the contractor behind the project and the U.S. government agencies, though. However, I wouldn't mind if they stripped all relevant/important information from the data and then made it available to select scientific organizations. It would be a massive benefit to science to have access to statistical data with such an amazing level of precision.
On August 11 2012 11:12 FeUerFlieGe wrote: It's like how the CIA found Bourne in the Bourne Identity.
The first recent thing that comes to mind is "The Machine" in Person of Interest. Similar concept, though I doubt the real "machine" is anywhere near as complex.
On August 11 2012 11:13 dcemuser wrote: I thought it was common knowledge that this was at the very least -possible-.
The PATRIOT Act and similar bills from nearly a decade ago allowed the U.S. government to collect vast amounts of data that was previously private or restricted to the company owning the equipment. It isn't much of a stretch to think that they'd want to centralize all of the data.
I obviously do oppose access for anyone besides the contractor behind the project and the U.S. government agencies, though. However, I wouldn't mind if they stripped all relevant/important information from the data and then made it available to select scientific organizations. It would be a massive benefit to science to have access to statistical data with such an amazing level of precision.
Yep, can't wait for them to know which hand I wipe my ass with after I take a shit. That's some precision.
On August 11 2012 11:01 Whitewing wrote: it's about who is doing the recording, and on what kind of scale, for what purpose.
Who would you be okay with recording you? Why does it matter if it is just you and your close friends or family being recorded or the entire world? Isn't the impact on the individual the same? Isn't that what people are concerned about.. how this will impact them? What purpose would that be? Are you sure you know what the purpose is or are you just assuming it will lead to something nefarious?
Intent is what matters, and power. A very large corporation or a government can use information like this to abuse their power, some random schmuck probably can't. It's not an issue of impact on an individual, but rather a question of power abuse.
And I'm not assuming it will lead to something nefarious, but I'm concerned that it might, eventually, do so.
I'm leery of giving any more power than we have to to a nation that has actually ordered the assassination of a citizen without a trial on suspicion of terrorism, as well as a nation which has unconstitutional laws like the Patriot Act on the books. Also, historically, many governments in history have abused their power, I see no reason to expect that we are immune to it.
I'm still going to wake up, drive my nice car to work on Monday, work in my nice office, and go home to my hot wife and nice house in the suburbs and play some SC2 at some point in the week.
Despite what you might believe, everyone is not out to get you. You're just not that important.
I just flipped on the news looking for ONE channel to be reporting this and I find myself in complete shock. Not one channel (that I checked) HLN, Fox, CNN.
On a more related note, I read the "Trouble book" which can be found on the first email on top of the list. I more so skimmed through some pages and read others. I found it to be.... Mostly common knowledge. However, some of the emails were incredibly suspicious. So many "rumours" and a lot of things I just thought we shouldn't even be involved in. Some were alarming while others seemed somewhat harmless. Did anyone see the email forwarded to three people that was just a bunch of letters mashed together forming a long paragraph. Is that some kind of error? I didn't understand that one.
On August 11 2012 11:20 mythandier wrote: I can't say I care.
I'm still going to wake up, drive my nice car to work on Monday, work in my nice office, and go home to my hot wife and nice house in the suburbs and play some SC2 at some point in the week.
Despite what you might believe, everyone is not out to get you. You're just not that important.
And there it is, why there isn't a reason to place faith in the people. You're the kind of person who would have been in Germany praising Hitler because no way big government can be bad, get real... It might not be there to be the boogeyman, but it puts its own interest ahead of others. You simply can't feel it because you've obviously been rather privileged, easy to be ignorant when you have not a worry.
On August 11 2012 11:01 Whitewing wrote: it's about who is doing the recording, and on what kind of scale, for what purpose.
Who would you be okay with recording you? Why does it matter if it is just you and your close friends or family being recorded or the entire world? Isn't the impact on the individual the same? Isn't that what people are concerned about.. how this will impact them? What purpose would that be? Are you sure you know what the purpose is or are you just assuming it will lead to something nefarious?
Intent is what matters, and power. A very large corporation or a government can use information like this to abuse their power, some random schmuck probably can't. It's not an issue of impact on an individual, but rather a question of power abuse.
And I'm not assuming it will lead to something nefarious, but I'm concerned that it might, eventually, do so.
Again... How would you know the intent?
Governments have always had access to more information than the public and have always had the ability to abuse their power ... This is simply adding in more information into that pool... I think our job as the public is to police the abuses.. not the information
Also, I think it is silly to say it isn't about impact on the individual... you say it is power abuse but isn't that power over the public and the individuals?
On August 11 2012 11:01 Whitewing wrote: it's about who is doing the recording, and on what kind of scale, for what purpose.
Who would you be okay with recording you? Why does it matter if it is just you and your close friends or family being recorded or the entire world? Isn't the impact on the individual the same? Isn't that what people are concerned about.. how this will impact them? What purpose would that be? Are you sure you know what the purpose is or are you just assuming it will lead to something nefarious?
Intent is what matters, and power. A very large corporation or a government can use information like this to abuse their power, some random schmuck probably can't. It's not an issue of impact on an individual, but rather a question of power abuse.
And I'm not assuming it will lead to something nefarious, but I'm concerned that it might, eventually, do so.
Again... How would you know the intent?
Governments have always had access to more information than the public and have always had the ability to abuse their power ... This is simply adding in more information into that pool... I think our job as the public is to police the abuses.. not the information
Also, I think it is silly to say it isn't about impact on the individual... you say it is power abuse but isn't that power over the public and the individuals?
You wouldn't know the intent, but the fact that you can't know it, and therefore can't hold your government responsible, is a serious problem. Government should strive to avoid doing anything that isn't obviously beneficial, and the intent of private corporations is obvious, to generate a profit.
Power over the public is not the same thing as power over an individual. You do understand the distinction between power over one person and power over every person?
You should want your government to have as little power as possible. Government is necessary for some things, but given how frequently people are corrupted and how often governments have become tyrannical in history, you should want your government to be transparent and to have very little power over you.
Keep in mind this is the same American government that ordered the assassination of a citizen without a trial on suspicion of being a terrorist (what if he was innocent? We'll never know. We'll also never know if his crime wasn't actually worthy of the death penalty). It constantly violates it's own constitution.
I know that many people don't care, but as someone else pointed out in this thread the whole "brick by brick" thing. We can't keep letting these things happen and add up to a point where we are completely controlled by others
I misunderstood the thread a bit, sorry. What I was trying to say is that all the evil master-plans conspiracy theories are truly ridiculous as it is actually (hypothetically) true that US could occupy everything in the world, not by 1 engagement, I mean c'mon people. By "behind the scenes" business they could. But they didn't?
Also, if the "recording" thing is actually true, I'm happy. Less terrorists, less crime. Regardless, I don't think wikileaks is "clean" anymore especially after their connection to the Palestine investors was revealed.
On August 11 2012 11:20 mythandier wrote: I can't say I care.
I'm still going to wake up, drive my nice car to work on Monday, work in my nice office, and go home to my hot wife and nice house in the suburbs and play some SC2 at some point in the week.
Despite what you might believe, everyone is not out to get you. You're just not that important.
And there it is, why there isn't a reason to place faith in the people. You're the kind of person who would have been in Germany praising Hitler because no way big government can be bad, get real... It might not be there to be the boogeyman, but it puts its own interest ahead of others. You simply can't feel it because you've obviously been rather privileged, easy to be ignorant when you have not a worry.
Not being paranoid≠no sense of morality. I can't even begin to understand how someone can compare supporting a mass murderer to simply not caring if there happens to be video footage of you somewhere that nobody but a computer will have access to unless you committed a serious crime.
EPT
