Well, as much as I think it's a bit childish to collectively take our toys and go home because we don't like the new kid on the playground, I'd say it's also rather silly for large portions of the world that owe the fact that they didn't get permanently taken over in WW2 to condemn us for not letting a nation and the people comprising it get completely and utterly wiped off the face of the planet.
You can say Israel's trying to do the same thing, but I have to consider them the underdog in the region. We have to bear in mind, the odds of a diplomatic solution suddenly existing after a couple thousand years of these people trying to wipe each other out isn't all that likely.
So unless the world plans to condone one or the other committing genocide, either we go in there and forcibly pull them off of each others throats permanently, (which nobody seems to have the inclination to do, or it would have happened by now), or, we just try to keep it vaguely clean-ish. Which I think it is compared to what would happen if everybody turned their backs for say... a week.
On November 02 2011 02:09 Niall wrote: The UN is anti-Israeli and anti-American? That, sir, is a claim I would like to see backed up.
The UN Human Rights Council, which comprises esteemed pillars of progressive society like Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia, and very nearly Syria, has used fully half of its total resolutions since inception to condemn Israel. Granted, the positions of the UNHRC are often more extreme than the UN general assembly, but it could be argued that that is simply because there are vetoes in the general assembly.
What's wrong with condemning Israel?
Because compared to stuff like Iran executing gay pepole, north korea and china killing innocent pepole, and you know... Syria massacering 3,000 of it's own citizens, while not getting a single real condemnation.
Israel is getting way too much flak.
No the rest are getting to little, you guys deserve even more flak.
What people dislike aswell is the fact that you always make it sound as if it somehow sorry for Israel for their current situation... it isn't. Israel has way to much money/funding from the US than they deserve for being a terrorist state, aswell as considering itself westerner and progressive.
To put it simply ; Nobody raises an eyebrow when an southafrican country breaks international law, but when one of the most modern and rich countries in the world still sees fit to oppress pisspoor uneducated people we care. If germany suddenly started oppressing swizz we'd give them more flak than when russia oppresses georgia or when china oppresses nepal. It's easy. Stop making yourselves into martyrs it's getting old.
On November 02 2011 02:44 JingleHell wrote: Well, as much as I think it's a bit childish to collectively take our toys and go home because we don't like the new kid on the playground, I'd say it's also rather silly for large portions of the world that owe the fact that they didn't get permanently taken over in WW2 to condemn us for not letting a nation and the people comprising it get completely and utterly wiped off the face of the planet.
You can say Israel's trying to do the same thing, but I have to consider them the underdog in the region. We have to bear in mind, the odds of a diplomatic solution suddenly existing after a couple thousand years of these people trying to wipe each other out isn't all that likely.
So unless the world plans to condone one or the other committing genocide, either we go in there and forcibly pull them off of each others throats permanently, (which nobody seems to have the inclination to do, or it would have happened by now), or, we just try to keep it vaguely clean-ish. Which I think it is compared to what would happen if everybody turned their backs for say... a week.
From the history books I read, they were living peacefully side by side up until the post WWII era, so i believe they were trying to wipe each other for about 60 years and not thousands of years. Correct me if I am wrong.
holy... how on earth did that even happen and no one raised the issue over the course of decades?
They did.
Beeing in the United Nations Security Council, USA, UK, China, France and Russia have the right to veto any decision made by the UN. This is a list of everything Vetoed by the US on the last 40 years:
holy... how on earth did that even happen and no one raised the issue over the course of decades?
They did.
Beeing in the United Nations Security Council, USA, UK, China, France and Russia have the right to veto any decision made by the UN. This is a list of everything Vetoed by the US on the last 40 years:
On November 02 2011 02:44 JingleHell wrote: Well, as much as I think it's a bit childish to collectively take our toys and go home because we don't like the new kid on the playground, I'd say it's also rather silly for large portions of the world that owe the fact that they didn't get permanently taken over in WW2 to condemn us for not letting a nation and the people comprising it get completely and utterly wiped off the face of the planet.
You can say Israel's trying to do the same thing, but I have to consider them the underdog in the region. We have to bear in mind, the odds of a diplomatic solution suddenly existing after a couple thousand years of these people trying to wipe each other out isn't all that likely.
So unless the world plans to condone one or the other committing genocide, either we go in there and forcibly pull them off of each others throats permanently, (which nobody seems to have the inclination to do, or it would have happened by now), or, we just try to keep it vaguely clean-ish. Which I think it is compared to what would happen if everybody turned their backs for say... a week.
From the history books I read, they were living peacefully side by side up until the post WWII era, so i believe they were trying to wipe each other for about 60 years and not thousands of years. Correct me if I am wrong.
I think a large portion of that depends on whether you go by the sociological, religious, and ethnic lines or the current nation-state that exists lines. The actual people groups have basically been back and forth killing, enslaving, slaughtering, and yelling at each other for so long that nobody remembers much of the details, they just disagree on them anyway, out of "principle" for lack of a better word.
On November 02 2011 00:47 Kupon3ss wrote: Well this isn't surprising, as appealing to the Jewish community earns American politicians an insane amount of votes and funding while being fair to Palestine earns nothing for elections.
What people who aren't Jewish don't realize is that the US and Israel represent pretty much the only two countries where Jews can live without being faced with severe persecution. And you wonder why the American Jewish population cares so much about Israel. No other country in the world is faced with the same situation as Israel, surrounded by hostile nations who would love nothing more than to see it's destruction.
The amount of media bias against Israel is insane. But I guess siding with the "underdog" (laughably called so considering the size of Israel compared to its surrounding enemies) is the clear ticket to getting the sympathy vote and selling papers... There used to be large Jewish populations in Europe and Arab nations until they were all forced out (Holocaust anyone?...) Look at the history and you will see who kicked who out....
Not to mention the land Israel has gained though out the decades was won through wars it did not start. Arab leaders literally said, "we will push the Jews into the sea". And at Israel's inception there wasn't anywhere near the same amount of US support as there is now. The first wars were fought by settlers, not soldiers. Don't start wars you aren't prepared to finish. Throughout history people have loved to hate the Jews for whatever reason.
On November 02 2011 02:09 Niall wrote: The UN is anti-Israeli and anti-American? That, sir, is a claim I would like to see backed up.
The UN Human Rights Council, which comprises esteemed pillars of progressive society like Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia, and very nearly Syria, has used fully half of its total resolutions since inception to condemn Israel. Granted, the positions of the UNHRC are often more extreme than the UN general assembly, but it could be argued that that is simply because there are vetoes in the general assembly.
What's wrong with condemning Israel?
Because compared to stuff like Iran executing gay pepole, north korea and china killing innocent pepole, and you know... Syria massacering 3,000 of it's own citizens, while not getting a single real condemnation.
Israel is getting way too much flak.
Israel, carelessly and disproportional kills Palestinians for "retaliations" after taking their homes arresting their husbands for "terrorism" without any any trial and blockade millions of people from basic food & water and is responsible for millions of Palestinians to flee from to the neighboring countries and unlawfully steal lands from Palestinians despite major international protests for decades and have broken more than 200 UN resolutions. Even kills people from other countries in International waters that try to ease the suffering of the Palestinian people.
Any sort of criticism of Israel is dismissed as "anti-Semitic". That's perhaps the most ridiculous eye opener. If anything people don't give enough flak to Israel. As they're conducting apartheid (some call it genocide) on a people living in their very own land for decades and yet - still - it only get worse.
holy... how on earth did that even happen and no one raised the issue over the course of decades?
They did.
Beeing in the United Nations Security Council, USA, UK, China, France and Russia have the right to veto any decision made by the UN. This is a list of everything Vetoed by the US on the last 40 years:
Most of them have 100+ votes on favor and <10 votes against, but it just doesnt matter.
Anyway, I think this is a step in the right direction.
It's extremely foolish to think that these vote results would have looked anything like this if all countries involved were not 100% sure ahead of time that the US would veto. Not having the responsibility of making any real decisions allows these irrelevant countries to vote in such a way that they can maximize political support back home or to curry favor with other countries, all the while knowing that the US will take care of them.
On November 02 2011 00:47 Kupon3ss wrote: Well this isn't surprising, as appealing to the Jewish community earns American politicians an insane amount of votes and funding while being fair to Palestine earns nothing for elections.
What people who aren't Jewish don't realize is that the US and Israel represent pretty much the only two countries where Jews can live without being faced with severe persecution.
The amount of media bias against Israel is insane. There used to be large Jewish populations in Europe and Arab nations until they were all forced out (Holocaust anyone?...) Look at the history and you will see who kicked who out....
Ok I am sorry if a moderator feels I am to hard here, but this must be the most retarded post I've ever read in a derailing of a topic. Media bias means there has to be an injustice, problem is we have empiric kognitive PROOF of Israel breaking INTERNATIONAL LAW on a DAILY BASIS. There is no injustice of showing this from the media.
What the heck are you talking about persecution? It's worse being a muslim than it is to be a jew in europa, in asia hardly anybody cares. There were never "large" jewish populations since they've never even represented a 1% of the worlds population, not even a 0.1% (google if you don't believe me). Nor did the holocaust drive jews from the arab nations or half of europa... Agh I just can't understand how you can speak about 60 year old happenings as if they should somehow effect the current day situation or how we view justice and law? The world is never this black and white people, please stop arguing in ultimatums.
On November 02 2011 02:56 Mayd wrote: The land belongs to Israel. Has always belonged.
"GOD" IS NOT A REALESTATE MERCHANT. Your faith can not outweigh my reality.
Also I'd like a moderator to check IP:s on some of these accounts, 5-20 post-accounts from different countries defending Israel out of the blue with a perspective heavily tilted towards pro-israel smells fishy.
On November 02 2011 00:47 Kupon3ss wrote: Well this isn't surprising, as appealing to the Jewish community earns American politicians an insane amount of votes and funding while being fair to Palestine earns nothing for elections.
What people who aren't Jewish don't realize is that the US and Israel represent pretty much the only two countries where Jews can live without being faced with severe persecution.
The amount of media bias against Israel is insane. There used to be large Jewish populations in Europe and Arab nations until they were all forced out (Holocaust anyone?...) Look at the history and you will see who kicked who out....
Well, at least for once when the Holocaust gets brought up directly it's at least something like 10% relevant. Must be a fluke. I don't think it's fair to blame the holocaust on the parts of Europe that didn't care that the Jews were there. That whole bit was kind of a single regime, which was stopped, and isn't relevant?
Anyway, even here in America, Jews suffered tons of discrimination, the "elite" used to make all kinds of fun of them. Yes, it's just a movie, but School Ties with Brendan Fraser reflects a very real mindset that existed in the US for quite a while.
Jews would get rejected from schools and jobs, the whole penny pinching stereotype exists because they managed to survive with relatively large families despite being stuck with the dregs of jobs mostly.
On November 02 2011 00:47 Kupon3ss wrote: Well this isn't surprising, as appealing to the Jewish community earns American politicians an insane amount of votes and funding while being fair to Palestine earns nothing for elections.
What people who aren't Jewish don't realize is that the US and Israel represent pretty much the only two countries where Jews can live without being faced with severe persecution. And you wonder why the American Jewish population cares so much about Israel. No other country in the world is faced with the same situation as Israel, surrounded by hostile nations who would love nothing more than to see it's destruction.
The amount of media bias against Israel is insane. There used to be large Jewish populations in Europe and Arab nations until they were all forced out (Holocaust anyone?...) Look at the history and you will see who kicked who out....
Not to mention the land Israel has gained though out the decades was won through wars it did not start. Arab leaders literally said, "we will push the Jews into the sea". And at Israel's inception there wasn't anywhere near the same amount of US support as there is now. The first wars were fought by settlers, not soldiers. Don't start wars you aren't prepared to finish.
Jews aren't persecuted more than any other minority in Europe. Jews are the only ones who get their own word for racism aimed at them though. You don't see people of African, Arab, Turkish or Armenian decent, living in Europe coming up with words describing racism targeting them. Of course racism in general is a problem but that is true in every country and of almost every minority.
So education, science, and culture took a hit because of shitty politics? What else is new? Just confirms how stupid we all are. This is the kind of thing that makes me want to leave America, but because I am an American, I am far too lazy to get off my ass and leave.
On November 02 2011 00:47 Kupon3ss wrote: Well this isn't surprising, as appealing to the Jewish community earns American politicians an insane amount of votes and funding while being fair to Palestine earns nothing for elections.
What people who aren't Jewish don't realize is that the US and Israel represent pretty much the only two countries where Jews can live without being faced with severe persecution.
The amount of media bias against Israel is insane. There used to be large Jewish populations in Europe and Arab nations until they were all forced out (Holocaust anyone?...) Look at the history and you will see who kicked who out....
Ok I am sorry if a moderator feels I am to hard here, but this must be the most retarded post I've ever read in a derailing of a topic. Media bias means there has to be an injustice, problem is we have empiric kognitive PROOF of Israel breaking INTERNATIONAL LAW on a DAILY BASIS. There is no injustice of showing this from the media.
What the heck are you talking about persecution? It's worse being a muslim than it is to be a jew in europa, in asia hardly anybody cares. There were never "large" jewish populations since they've never even represented a 1% of the worlds population, not even a 0.1% (google if you don't believe me). Nor did the holocaust drive jews from the arab nations or half of europa... Agh I just can't understand how you can speak about 60 year old happenings as if they should somehow effect the current day situation or how we view justice and law? The world is never this black and white people, please stop arguing in ultimatums.
On November 02 2011 02:56 Mayd wrote: The land belongs to Israel. Has always belonged.
"GOD" IS NOT A REALESTATE MERCHANT. Your faith can not outweigh my reality.
Also I'd like a moderator to check IP:s on some of these accounts, 5-20 post-accounts from different countries defending Israel out of the blue with a perspective heavily tilted towards pro-israel smells fishy.
Honestly, I don't know how to respond to this... as far as I can tell you are just simply ignoring historical fact. There used to be relatively large and healthy populations of Jews in Europe and the Middle East. Now Jews have been forced into living almost exclusively either in the US or Israel. I have to go to class now but when I'm out I will provide numbers to back this up.
EPT
