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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on. Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments. Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On June 14 2018 08:44 ThunderJunk wrote: Huh. What if she wouldn't have had sex with you unless she thought you were dating her? I mean, she'd probably feel bad about that when you do leave. You can if you want, and plenty of people have done it before, but probably better to just find a fuckbuddy instead. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On June 14 2018 08:44 ThunderJunk wrote: Huh. What if she wouldn't have had sex with you unless she thought you were dating her? There's probably a reason for that don't you think? You abusing her trust by pretending to date her just to get laid is the epitome of assholery. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 14 2018 08:44 ThunderJunk wrote: What if she wouldn't have had sex with you unless she thought you were dating her? Then she's not attracted enough to you to warrant an actual relationship. Gatekeeping sexual access to secure commitment is a game that only succeeds if you lack sufficient options, and it is in fact an indicator that she doesn't hold you in high regard. Beyond the question of whether feigning a relationship demonstrates a lack of virtue, acceding to her demand establishes a fragile power dynamic that will prove fragile at the slightest conflict. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On June 15 2018 05:05 CosmicSpiral wrote: Then she's not attracted enough to you to warrant an actual relationship. Gatekeeping sexual access to secure commitment is a game that only succeeds if you lack sufficient options, and it is in fact an indicator that she doesn't hold you in high regard. What a load of drivel. Some people think of sex as a special event to only be share it with people they are either in a relationship or sometimes even married to. It has no bearing on attraction. edit: While I'm at it: On June 14 2018 02:50 CosmicSpiral wrote: Attraction and familiarity are separate states, and reliability is demonstratively antithetical to sexual arousal around all age ranges. It's an ill-conceived notion to leverage solidarity in this manner. What have you been smoking to even think this is remotely how things work? Reliability is demonstratively attractive for all ages, not the opposite. That doesn't mean it's enough to have that as the sole attracting attribute (As a lot of people think when they whine about being in the friend zone), but that doesn't mean it's a negative trait or even close to it. If you spend time with a person, attraction can grow, and especially if you're working together to overcome obstacles. There's a reason workplace adultery is so rampant. Nothing is going to come off of not being there for them. | ||
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waffelz
Germany711 Posts
On June 15 2018 05:10 Excludos wrote: What a load of drivel. Some people think of sex as a special event to only be share it with people they are either in a relationship or sometimes even married to. It has no bearing on attraction. I second this. Also some people simply don't get much from casual sex so its not very desireable to them. Or they have been raised that way / its their culture to act that way. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 15 2018 05:10 Excludos wrote: What a load of drivel. Some people think of sex as a special event to only be share it with people they are either in a relationship or sometimes even married to. It has no bearing on attraction. I like how you immediately assumed that the girl was some innocent victim off a single, single sentence. I'd also like to believe she's some precious Mormon teenager eagerly awaiting her predestined groom, but that would require a leap of faith that isn't warranted by any measure. Also, women who prize sex as a emotional and spiritual experience above all else don't barter it for "dating" privileges. They demand exclusive commitment and dedicated proof of said commitment, not casual social status. They reserve sex for longterm relationships, engagement and marriage. So you can quit the pointless white knighting and contribute useful advice to the thread. On June 15 2018 05:10 Excludos wrote: It has no bearing on attraction. On the contrary, attraction is the primary reason women treat some men as exceptions to their rules and not the rest. Even the most traditionally-minded girl will have sex with the right man in the right circumstance without qualification. It's quite clear he's not that guy, and he shouldn't try to skirt around that fact by lying about his motivations. On June 15 2018 05:14 waffelz wrote: I second this. Also some people simply don't get much from casual sex so its not very desireable to them. Or they have been raised that way / its their culture to act that way. Unnecessary equivocation aside, we only know he wants casual sex (more like breakup sex). So this is not a FWB or random hookup scenario. | ||
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waffelz
Germany711 Posts
On June 15 2018 05:44 CosmicSpiral wrote: On the contrary, attraction is the primary reason women treat some men as exceptions to their rules and not the rest. Even the most traditionally-minded girl will have sex with the right man in the right circumstance without qualification. It's quite clear he's not that guy, and he shouldn't try to skirt around that fact by lying about his motivations. That kind of sounds like an qualification to me... Sorry, couldn't resist. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
Glad you have it all figured out lying to get into someones panties and drop them later against their explicit statement of intent of not dating = no sexy time isnt cool, it's a douchy move. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On June 15 2018 05:49 waffelz wrote: That kind of sounds like an qualification to me... Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm using a different definition. This one is the synonym of "reservation". On June 15 2018 05:50 Artisreal wrote: @ cosmic Glad you have it all figured out lying to get into someones panties and drop them later against their explicit statement of intent of not dating = no sexy time isnt cool, it's a douchy move. I'm not the morality police, so I don't particularly care to indulge in the self-important sermonizing that has infected this thread and ruined whatever utility it used to have. It reflects quite poorly on the people who regularly post and offers nothing to people who want real, actionable advice. However, I already explained why it's a bad idea from a pragmatic perspective. So I'll reiterate them:
So it's a bad idea for multiple reasons, none which involve trying to shame him. | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States741 Posts
On June 15 2018 06:18 CosmicSpiral wrote: I'm using a different definition. This one is the synonym of "reservation". I'm not the morality police, so I don't particularly care to indulge in the self-important sermonizing that has infected this thread and ruined whatever utility it used to have. It reflects quite poorly on the people who regularly post and offers nothing to people who want real, actionable advice. However, I already explained why it's a bad idea from a pragmatic perspective. So I'll reiterate them:
So it's a bad idea for multiple reasons, none which involve trying to shame him. On an abstract level, it's good to see what people think about it. I was actually pretty impressed by the helpful content of some of the comments. Others were pretty quick to imagine the situation as something very specific. Here's what happened in real life. I met this girl years ago at a party. She had been dating an acquaintance of mine. We felt some attraction, but the time wasn't right, so we both just let it go, but added each other on facebook. 3 or so years later, I was single and available so I sent out a feeler message to see if she happened to be in a place where connecting with me would be desirable. She lived in another state so we spent many hours getting to know each other by phone and video chat. Before making it official that we were dating, and before we visited in person, I thought in my head that she and I could last around 2 years (maximum) and make each others' lives awesome during that time. She had it in her head that she would rope me in and keep me for as long as possible. We hung out, had a fantastic sexy time, and kept together by phone. She wanted a lot more time than I wanted to give. I'm generally someone who prefers less contact, but the contact can still be meaningful and legitimately faithful. After a while, I started feeling burnt out. My mind started wandering during our phone calls, and she felt less satisfied by that. We had one more visit (we each visited each others' home towns once), and then a week or two later, I told her I wanted to go in a different direction. You see, I was hoping I could convert her to a shorter term contract, and simultaneously she was hoping she could convert me to a permanent contract. To help her maximize her own opportunities, I let her know that forever simply isn't in the cards and broke it off early. Recently, months later, we've started talking again as friends. She was happy I was honest with her, and I was happy she was mature with me. I've turned poly, so there's really no going back to a 1:1, all eggs in one basket relationship dynamic. She might still want that, but... not gonna happen. So, it wasn't really so much jumping through hoops to get sex as much as, working out what we wanted, and getting sex in the meantime. I don't think I need to feel sorry for not knowing immediately whether we could work out in a way that she could get behind. | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
Does it count as dating if you give the girl the impression that you're dating, but you're actually just waiting for the sex to happen before separating entirely? I agree that this would make you a douchebag. Here's what happened in real life. She might still want that, but... not gonna happen. So, it wasn't really so much jumping through hoops to get sex as much as, working out what we wanted, and getting sex in the meantime. I don't think I need to feel sorry for not knowing immediately whether we could work out in a way that she could get behind. What do you exactly think is different here? Because you had some history, then it's okay? You seem pretty sure that nothing that she wants will ever happen since you're now poly and don't believe in a long term thing with her. I'd say that would classify you as a douchebag if you decide to keep it going just to get laid. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
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Laurens
Belgium4558 Posts
On June 15 2018 16:42 Excludos wrote: I should clarify that I'm not attacking you for it here. Doing douchebag things is something we've all probably done in our lives. I helped a girl cheat on her boyfriend once..who also happen to be a good friend of mine. I have no qualms about calling it an asshole thing to do, because it absolutely was, and no story about how I liked her from before or my state of mind at the time is going to excuse it. It's important that we can look back and see the things we've done wrong, so we can learn from them. Feel free to share the story + aftermath. Still friends with the guy? Did he find out? | ||
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On June 15 2018 17:00 Laurens wrote: Feel free to share the story + aftermath. Still friends with the guy? Did he find out? Not much more to share. We were fwb for a while before (against my wishes) she got together with him. I was super depressed after that, and missed her like crazy, so when I got an opportunity to share a night with her again I didn't think too much and jumped on it (literally and figuratively). As far as I know he never found out, and we're still friends today. I feel bad of course, but I don't think telling him about it now is going to result in anything positive. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On June 15 2018 06:18 CosmicSpiral wrote: I'm using a different definition. This one is the synonym of "reservation". I'm not the morality police, so I don't particularly care to indulge in the self-important sermonizing that has infected this thread and ruined whatever utility it used to have. It reflects quite poorly on the people who regularly post and offers nothing to people who want real, actionable advice. However, I already explained why it's a bad idea from a pragmatic perspective. So I'll reiterate them:
So it's a bad idea for multiple reasons, none which involve trying to shame him. Judging solely from the one liner that was posted there is like zero wiggle room. It's a douchebag move. I'm not gonna judge his personality based on that but lying to get into someone's pants is not ok. Your need to call that moral policing is rather questionable. What else but a moral compass do you use when dealing with interpersonal relationships? I really don't agree with that being portrayed as a negative. With the context provided one could think that he's honest about his intentions of sharing intimacy while figuring out what's possible for both. If that's consensual, there you go, everyone's happy with that. Not comparable to the one liner tough. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8941 Posts
On June 15 2018 17:10 Excludos wrote: Not much more to share. We were fwb for a while before (against my wishes) she got together with him. I was super depressed after that, and missed her like crazy, so when I got an opportunity to share a night with her again I didn't think too much and jumped on it (literally and figuratively). As far as I know he never found out, and we're still friends today. I feel bad of course, but I don't think telling him about it now is going to result in anything positive. is she still with your friend | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18487 Posts
Lol. Is this the gossip corner? :D | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8941 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
Yes. And no I don't plan on breaking them up by telling him for a multitude of reasons, many of which is probably not a good idea to share on the internet, even amongst strangers. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8255 Posts
On June 08 2018 10:24 evilfatsh1t wrote: well if youre approaching this with a "experimental" mentality, you could just be bold and do things you think you should have done but were too introverted to try. worst case scenario it doesnt work out just like your last date. im still an introvert but as far as women go, i got over that wall that blocks you from doing anything by saying "fuck it" and doing things anyway. the girl i decided to try it on became my gf immediately and from then on you just loosen up a bit since you know its worked before Damn that's good to hear. What happened and how did it go if you don't mind me asking? Did you make moves or she make moves and you just straight up ask her to be your girlfriend? On June 08 2018 16:19 Laurens wrote: I was only commenting on the "intro me to her friends" bit. I'm an introvert myself, I know the struggle  If it helps, I've noticed it getting better with age, idk how old you are but at 26 i've gotten quite a bit more confident. I started going out more and using dating apps a bit more often, and then it's just a matter of 'forcing' myself to actually talk to girls. Easier said than done for introverts, I know. The hardest bit is still keeping that conversation going on the first date without it sounding like an interview. Picking the right activity to do for the first date helps a lot imo. That's exactly the same situation I'm in. Except I haven't received any quality matches lately. I also notice when I do match them, keeping the conversation going without making it sound like an interview can be really difficult. Some girls are really easy to chat with and there's no stress whatsoever. I reconnected with this girl last year and we're pretty good friends now I would think, given how our chats go. She's dating someone but she said even if she were single, she wouldn't date me. I find I get friend zoned really easily. What would you suggest is a good first date activity? I heard movies are no good so I've been avoiding that, because you just sit together and don't really get to know each other unless there's plans afterwards. On June 08 2018 17:02 bloodwhore~ wrote: I was in your position geokilla a few years ago. Just continue dating girls and you'll get better in no time. My perspective of dating is just as any other skill, you have to practice. I saw my first 10-15 dates as pure exp farming. Embrace your failures and learn from them. I also think you should talk to people about your dating successes and failures, it's good to get other peoples perspective. It will speed up your progress as well. That is one creepy song lol. Lol funny thing is, I do talk to my girl friends about my dates, and what my Coffee Meets Bagel profile is like. However I get the feeling these girl friends are either "out of the game." One of them has been in a relationship since high school. Last month, I was talking to her about my friend who gave some pointers on picking girls up. He basically said something like try to pick her up by making witty comebacks and remarks or somewhat imply things that would get them horny and want you. That girl friend was saying how it would not work on women. But my guy friend (who is pretty good looking) picked up and banged tons of girls doing that. Obviously there's different kinds of women out there but it's pretty hard learning about someone when you're separated by a screen. Another girl friend said I committed the mistake of last minute resistance during my second date. I don't quite understand last minute resistance though. I think in my situation, I didn't make a move so she didn't want me and this gave her the opportunity to put up her barriers towards me? | ||
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