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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On June 26 2014 02:33 ComaDose wrote:
The "biological need for sex" does not extend beyond the fact we have to have sex to procreate. there is no time frame where someone dies if they dont get laid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_balls
Again, not saying it justifies having sex with someone else. But I can understand the urge if he cuddled with the virgin one a lot without being able to release the tension.
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So long as he has hands, that urge was very easy to relieve.
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On June 26 2014 02:45 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 01:21 Xiphos wrote:On June 26 2014 01:05 Plansix wrote:
His posts are like a list of stuff never to do or think about on a date. It is a cautionary tale. Funny because the two guys I've gave advice to and others agree with my advice. If you don't think that thinking of stuff to keep the dates exciting, then this speaks more about your personality than mine. On June 25 2014 22:13 Cynry wrote:On June 25 2014 22:06 Xiphos wrote:On June 25 2014 21:53 Mina wrote:On June 25 2014 21:37 Xiphos wrote:
Well man's got a point in that men have those more urgent sexual urges that have to be released somehow w/ or w/o a woman (and it is, at least most of the time, better with a partner).
Are you really going to go there? Only if you want me to. I don't think he disagrees with the "urge" part, but more to what it may mean in context. It could be interpreted that you find totally fine to cheat on someone you "love" just for releasing the sexual tension, and by doing so betrayed her trust. Is that what you meant ? The guy obviously needs to tell her about what he did (cheating) but he needs to bring up the context behind it as you've said that he have biological needs. And if the girl refuse to accept it, then it is healthy on both sides to terminate the relationship. Someone who is less informed and in need of advice isn't exactly who you should be looking for when it comes to validating your opinion. Apart from that there is no "if the girl refuses to accept his biological needs". His "needs" aren't something that should ever be used for blackmailing someone else into sex. In this case specifically the girl apparently made her position very clear (by not giving into his advances), he went on and got sex from someone else. It's him who has to accept her position, be honest about his cheating and move on. You're blaming the girl for having a clear and honest position and are recommending that the guy should try and see if blackmail works before he dumps her. It's against everything what solid advice for any kind of healthy relationship or dating life stands for.
Way to put words into someone's mouth xD
"if the girl refuse to accept it"
"then it is healthy on both sides to terminate the relationship."
This guy obviously wants his cake and eat it too. As bystanders, this doesn't look great for her future prospect in terms of trusting the guy. However can he re-conciliate with her even after cheating on her? What will be his argument to continue the relationship? Again I totally understand why he would cheat as well as I could understand why she would be afraid of sex and if he comes clean, she could choose to break up with him.
I think most of us are on the same boat here but we are simply wording it differently. And he haven't made any response so it would be better to wait for his report on what did he actually do.
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"If you refuse to accept what I want from you it would be healthy for us to end our relationship."
That's blackmail per definition. In this case it's about "If you refuse to accept my needs and have sex with me it would be healthy for us to end our relationship" which is about blackmailing the girl for sex aka completely unacceptable.
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On June 26 2014 02:53 farvacola wrote:
So long as he has hands, that urge was very easy to relieve.
Or in other word, you are the master of your own penis. You control where it goes and does not go.
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On June 26 2014 03:04 r.Evo wrote:
"If you refuse to accept what I want from you it would be healthy for us to end our relationship."
That's blackmail per definition. In this case it's about "If you refuse to accept my needs and have sex with me it would be healthy for us to end our relationship" which is about blackmailing the girl for sex aka completely unacceptable.
It can be both. I can see that being a totally rational discussion between a couple looking for different things in the relationship. I could also see it going super ass hat mode where the guy tries to guilt trip the girl into sleepin with him.
With this one, the context of the discussion is key.
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On June 26 2014 03:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 03:04 r.Evo wrote:
"If you refuse to accept what I want from you it would be healthy for us to end our relationship."
That's blackmail per definition. In this case it's about "If you refuse to accept my needs and have sex with me it would be healthy for us to end our relationship" which is about blackmailing the girl for sex aka completely unacceptable. It can be both. I can see that being a totally rational discussion between a couple looking for different things in the relationship. I could also see it going super ass hat mode where the guy tries to guilt trip the girl into sleepin with him. With this one, the context of the discussion is key.
I mean in this case we're talking about someone who said that girls love assholes and guys who aren't respectful and who is already talking about: "I think that if she somehow gets to know that i had to come back to my ex gf she will regret her decision of keeping her virginity, because that decision just caused her to be betrayed."
...which is what lead me to the "super ass hat mode where the guy tries to guilt trip"-interpretation. =P
In general I don't believe that "If you refuse to xyz ... or I'll end our relationship" is a way to handle any relationship from any side. It's showing a complete lack of respect for the position of the other side (since you're going into the discussion with announcing you're giving zero compromises on the issue) and it's trying to use the relationship itself as leverage. Sure, I can see extreme cases where this is appropriate ("If you refuse to go into drug rehab I'll leave") but it's no way to treat someone you claim to care about in a general situation.
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On June 26 2014 03:04 r.Evo wrote:
"If you refuse to accept what I want from you it would be healthy for us to end our relationship."
That's blackmail per definition. In this case it's about "If you refuse to accept my needs and have sex with me it would be healthy for us to end our relationship" which is about blackmailing the girl for sex aka completely unacceptable.
Why would the man stay in a relationship if he isn't getting his needs? Relationships are two streets.
Now idk what is he offering her or what is she offering him. If one person in a relationship thinks that currently, things are in the process of getting nowhere then it is absolutely needed to talk about it. The sooner you talk about it, the less time you are wasting the other person.
You are advocating that a couple shouldn't have conversation about the current state of their relationship which isn't exactly good advice. As matter of fact, you should be having these talk at regular intervals to make sure that both sides are EXACTLY on the same page.
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Netherlands6175 Posts
On June 26 2014 03:16 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 03:04 r.Evo wrote:
"If you refuse to accept what I want from you it would be healthy for us to end our relationship."
That's blackmail per definition. In this case it's about "If you refuse to accept my needs and have sex with me it would be healthy for us to end our relationship" which is about blackmailing the girl for sex aka completely unacceptable. Why would the man stay in a relationship if he isn't getting his needs? Relationships are two streets. Now idk what is he offering her or what is she offering him. If one person in a relationship thinks that currently, things are in the process of getting nowhere then it is absolutely needed to talk about it. The sooner you talk about it, the less time you are wasting the other person. You are advocating that a couple shouldn't have conversation about the current state of their relationship which isn't exactly good advice. As matter of fact, you should be having these talk at regular intervals to make sure that both sides are EXACTLY on the same page.
No one is disagreeing. Talk about things with your partner. That is how relationships work. When one side goes quiet then you know there is a problem. If the other person is still not interested in having sex with you after this then you should definitely find another way to deal with your needs and not coerce her.
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Yes, the specific poster who spawned this discussion is a confirmed ass hat. I was more talking in general with relationships and when folks want to get intimate when they are older. Obviously, when it comes to younger folks and their relationships, the intimacy question is a more nuanced subject. People don't do a lot of "casual" dating in highschool and don't have the frank discussions about what they are looking for in a relationship.
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It's one thing to seek conversation and another to try and force yourself onto someone.
It comes down to mutual respect, mutual trust and mutual commitment. In a case like this the girl is, for whatever reason, genuinely afraid of having sex. Obviously that's an issue that needs to be solved. The positive way to solve it is to seek honest conversation, get across that having sex in a relationship is something you genuinely want and cherish but to also give her the security and space to solve her issues that are preventing her from openly embracing it. Everyone is scared of something. An emotional relationship (with anyone, not just your sexual partner(s)) is a place where you can work on insecurities or flaws with someone that will offer you genuine support, with someone that allows you to grow.
The other honest option is to tell her that you don't believe the relationship is going to work out and that you'd like to end it. Even mentioning that the main reason you want to end it is that you don't see yourself enjoying sex with her is totally fine but it should not be used as collateral.
The blackmail portion comes in if you take the issue and put the relationship on the line in a "either or" scenario. Once more: "If you refuse to have sex with me we have to end our relationship" is exactly that.
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When you sit down to talk about a serious matter, both parties know more or less that depending on the result of the conversation, it could either end up really great or could spell the doom of the relationship.
Even though you can steadily steer the topic into that matter as gently as you can, if you were paraphrase the entire interaction, you are in fact, as subconsciously as possible that according the current situation, a breakup is inevitable.
If the girl can't handle it, then so be it.
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Funny thing, he was actually asking about how to talk to her about "the penetration business", not sure we even answered that. Not sure I want to either...
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Pro tip for life on how not to be a creeper: never use the phrase "penetrating the buisness". Ever.
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Was just quoting the guy, just to be clear.
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We know. That's the only tip I can provide him. Don't be a fucking creeper and your girlfriend will have sex when she wants to. Either hang out until it happens or don't.
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how is wanting sex in a relationship blackmail?
if guy wants sex and girl doesn't, they need to talk it out. and if it can't be resolved through a compromise, then the relationship should be ended. this isn't blackmail, this is how grownups handle relationships. why would anyone stay in a relationship if one of their needs isn't being fulfilled? this goes both ways.
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That's pretty clearly stated above. Take one kinda jerky guy and impressionable, eager to please girl with some minor self esteem issues and you have the black mail situation. It only really happens if one side is an ass hole and doesn't it proclude rational, adult discussions about sex where no ass holes are present.
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On June 26 2014 04:02 Plansix wrote:
That's pretty clearly stated above. Take one kinda jerky guy and impressionable, eager to please girl with some minor self esteem issues and you have the black mail situation. It only really happens if one side is an ass hole and doesn't it proclude rational, adult discussions about sex where no ass holes are present.
Yeah in this case, the dude cheated and that was a douche move. But there is nothing wrong with saying "hey sex is important to me and this relationship is not going to work out without it". That's not blackmail that's just being honest about your needs. The two can then talk things out as a couple, and come up with a compromise. There are always going to be differences in values and such, and discussions are how you resolve these kind of differences. Sometimes its not resolvable, and walking away isn't blackmail.
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On June 26 2014 05:12 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 04:02 Plansix wrote:
That's pretty clearly stated above. Take one kinda jerky guy and impressionable, eager to please girl with some minor self esteem issues and you have the black mail situation. It only really happens if one side is an ass hole and doesn't it proclude rational, adult discussions about sex where no ass holes are present. Yeah in this case, the dude cheated and that was a douche move. But there is nothing wrong with saying "hey sex is important to me and this relationship is not going to work out without it". That's not blackmail that's just being honest about your needs. The two can then talk things out as a couple, and come up with a compromise. There are always going to be differences in values and such, and discussions are how you resolve these kind of differences. Sometimes its not resolvable, and walking away isn't blackmail.
^All kind of agreements to that.
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EPT
