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On August 02 2011 04:31 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:06 Bibdy wrote:On August 02 2011 03:59 Belgo wrote:On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. Because a characters race/sexual preference/species what have you ends up tying into there background. Which is highly important in a very story driven game. Would you say that anyone has even done it successfully with sexual orientation? Bioware is really the only company actively trying to cater to the gay crowd through their romance options, but they're so utterly hollow they've lost all meaning. They were a surprise and very cool in BG2 and Planescape: Torment. But, now it's been done to death. Just like real life, nobody but you should give a shit if you're a gay captain Shepard, or a straight captain Shepard. Am I crazy, or are there people that want to take that trivial little gameplay element and turn it into a badge of distinction? Done to death? And straight romance hasn't been? I don't understand your logic here.
Yes, I mean romances in general, not specifically the gay romances. You'll notice I used examples of two games that didn't even have gay romances.
Romances were cool and unique the first few times around, particularly when they actually had an impact on the story!. They were a part of the gameplay in those examples. However, in Bioware's recent endeavors, they're just dilute fan service, and a means to keep grabbing the virtual-romance-obsessed audience again and again.
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On August 02 2011 04:47 emythrel wrote:
First off using the term "Queers" where i live is extremely offensive, and a word i personally hate. Doesn't matter if you are gay or not, its a horrible term that means 'weird' and there is nothing queer about being gay......... but I digress
There is no reason why gay people should be represented in games unless there is value to it from a character perspective, games are fantasy they don't reflect real life and characters are written to fit the storylines of the game. If having a gay character just for the sake of it was enforced on publishers you would end up with many stupid characters that simply don't fit the game.
Sorry if you take offence
In Sweden its an accepted term and does not mean weird, it just means that you are problaby not hetero. The gay movement uses it and you can study queer theory at University.
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Well, in bioware RPG's you have gay characters (who are able to do a romance with you). At least mass effect and dragon age. At the moment I'm not sure if it's possible in BG2.
On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do.
you realize homosexuality also happens and occurs in the animal world? Your "thesis" is disproven.
Also, making minorities visible in media is actually a big part of real acceptance.
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On August 02 2011 03:50 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:33 contraSol wrote:
You know what I love about the internets? Whether you're black, white, brown, yellow, straight, gay, or any mix of the aforementioned, it doesn't really matter. No one can tell. Why make a non-issue an issue?
the main guy in GTA:San Andreas is black, and i never felt the guy does not represent me because of this. In fact, I don't want a white guy looking like me in videogames. I look like myself in real-life, time for something new while playing
Well said, both of you. Character sex, color, sexual orientation and even age have really no bearing on how well a game can be "played". The only requirement for a characters description is that they "fit the role" as it were.
Sexuality is almost never discussed, for the reason that it has no relevance to the gameplay/storyline in most games. If a game DOES come out where the main hero is a homosexual and must rescue their true love (a same-sex character) then of course it would be relevant.
But most games cater to the largest audience possible, and that means the standard guy-rescues-girl plot, where nobody ever asks about any other characters sexuality. Or even race. If there is racism incorporated into a game, it is almost always shown in a negative light.
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On August 02 2011 04:56 Magenta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:47 emythrel wrote:
First off using the term "Queers" where i live is extremely offensive, and a word i personally hate. Doesn't matter if you are gay or not, its a horrible term that means 'weird' and there is nothing queer about being gay......... but I digress
There is no reason why gay people should be represented in games unless there is value to it from a character perspective, games are fantasy they don't reflect real life and characters are written to fit the storylines of the game. If having a gay character just for the sake of it was enforced on publishers you would end up with many stupid characters that simply don't fit the game.
Sorry if you take offence In Sweden its an accepted term and does not mean weird, it just means that you are problaby not hetero.
I assumed as much, was just pointing out that in English speaking countries its considered a bad word lol. the literal definition of 'Queer' is weird as in "that was a queer thing to do" I guess the original meaning gets lost when it finds its way in to other languages ;p
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putting a character that is gay into a game just for the sake of appeasing a panel of "experts" is hilarious and highly ignorant to whatever storyline unless that storyline fits it in naturally. And like all games have women in it....? Not only that but plenty of people play opposite sex characters in RPGs as well soo I'm pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't care.
but you can't preach tolerance without intolerance eh? Afterall, if it doesn't have gay in it then it clearly is wrong. Joke League imo
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On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do.
We've evolved quite far beyond this as a species. I think it's pretty twisted to compare us to a bunch of animals that are incapable of higher thought even though we may technically be animals ourselves. Human beings on an individual level are capable of doing far more for the proliferation of the species than any other animal is. Maybe the best a dog can do to secure the future of its kind is to breed, but dogs also lack the social structure that we have where people play their own roles in the preservation of our communities and thus, our species.
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On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:
How would you react if a good progamer came out as gay?
/facepalm :/
We don't live in the 80s anymore and we don't really care about the sexual orientation of someone as long as they don't make a big deal out of it... really its been like fucking 10 years since they said they knew what hormonal disorder was causing homosexuality and like 20 years since ppl in civilized countries ( such as the Scandinavic countries ) accepted it.
Its just silly asking this kind of question, it just seem to me like gay folks just want attention nowadays.
I can't find one reason why sexual orientation would matter on the internet if you are not visiting a porn site and thus i can find no reason why it would matter in a god dam online game.
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Seems silly, very silly. Sexuality is a personal thing, likewise I could care less if the protagonist likes the color blue, is liberal, is gay, prefers vanilla ice cream over chocolate and so far. It has no place in gaming as its not important. If they started to introduce characters up front as being gay it would be vacuous as that's a personal thing that should be kept to ones self and it has no value or place at all in a video game.
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I'll be there 
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I was a little disappointed by the first two pages of comments on this thread...
On August 02 2011 03:31 Slaytilost wrote:
I fail to see how someone's sexual preferences are in any way related to gaming. What does it matter what the main protagonist of the game you play does at night, and with whom?
Uh, it matters a lot. Most gamers are heterosexual men. Developers know this and they market their games to them. Which is why most protagonists in games are heterosexual white males and the game makes their sexuality very obvious. Whether it's having a girlfriend, having a wife, or just sleeping with tons of women. Now, I think that most of this is just business. I don't think that most developers are racist, homophobic, or sexist. They're just trying to make money and that means appealing to your demographics.
So whether you recognize it or not having a character's sexual preference known is important, so much so that a game that had a homosexual protagonist would probably lose money.
On August 02 2011 03:47 Psychobabas wrote:
As usual, gays/lesbians trying to reassure they have representation in every aspect of life.
You know, I have no problem whatsoever on anybody's sexual preferences but whats next? A gay Tony the Tiger on my Frosties cereal box?
(although he must be gay wearing that scarf...)
Of course there are gays pushing for more representation. Just like there are people and groups pushing for more representation of all minorities in media. Look at the film '21' where the directors cast most of the people as white instead of Asians. Developers aren't any different from movie producers, they understand what characters sell.
Furthermore I don't think the OP is in anyway trying to say that gays should be more represented he's just pointing out that right now they aren't and is asking if that affects us, and for some people I think it does. I can understand if he was saying that there should be gay people in every video game we play ever but he's not, he's just asking for opinions. And most of the questions he asks bring up good points. The only gay characters I can think of in games have been very minor and were often used as comedic relief. I never played it but I think Grand Theft Auto had an expansion pack with a semi-prevalent gay character?
I think the way that most TLers have dismissed this as, "why should it matter" or "no one cares who the protagonist bangs" are being either purposefully ignorant or are a bit naive. Most video game characters are obviously heterosexual.
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Finally, I have had an online gaming friend "come out" and no he did not feel comfortable about it for a long while. At first he just confided in a few people about his sexuality but only in the past few months officially "came out." I do think that the gaming community is not very gay friendly so I can't blame him. Just play online on a console or play computer games that have built in VOIP chat. You'll hear "faggot" and "queer" plenty of times. Whether you think those words hold any meaning or not is irrelevant because there are plenty of people who do get upset by hearing them used with negative connotations.
I don't want to sound like an angry person or like I'm just being someone with the anti-fun police but it bothered me how many comments on TL of all places are just super dismissive and have literally no thought put behind them at all on such a serious topic.
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On August 02 2011 04:47 emythrel wrote:
First off using the term "Queers" where i live is extremely offensive, and a word i personally hate. Doesn't matter if you are gay or not, its a horrible term that means 'weird' and there is nothing queer about being gay......... but I digress
There is no reason why gay people should be represented in games unless there is value to it from a character perspective, games are fantasy they don't reflect real life and characters are written to fit the storylines of the game. If having a gay character just for the sake of it was enforced on publishers you would end up with many stupid characters that simply don't fit the game.
I've been told by some gay people in academia that Queer is a pretty widely used term for academic studies on the matter. :/ Hard to please everyone unfortunately.
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i sense a brokeback king of the hill in this thread ... somewhere oO
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Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. I don't see why it's so important to seperate yourselves, and the same goes for gaming really. I don't care if one of my practice partners/clan mates is gay or hetero. Same thing goes for singleplayer games, like others have pointed out, there aren't many OVERLY heterosexual game characters either. For example you wouldn't know if the dude you're playing in Call of Duty is gay, because it just isn't referenced. And it doesn't need to be, unless it's important for the story - although there are exceptions such as Dragon Age in which you could get with a NPC from the same sex...
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I think anybody who let the fact that a pro-gamer came out to be gay or anything along them lines get to them they're clearly a bit narrow-minded...
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I don't think there are any norms advocated in games. Its what you make it out to be. And it depends on the community.
I don't think casual games or "barbie goes Dallas" can be e-sport games.
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re: queer, it's pretty much the common term in academia (queer studies, queer theory, queering is often used as a verb, etc.)
the first few pages seem to have a bit of unnecessary animosity toward the subject, so maybe it can be questioned in a different way:
does the heteronormativity that exists in gaming culture create a culture that makes it needlessly difficult to be a gay gamer? suppose gay culture was depicted in a way concurrent with modern society. would it cut down on the usage of 'gay' and 'faggot' by gamers or are these more attributable to just general youth/immaturity? do you act towards other gamers the way you act towards other people IRL?
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Jesus christ.. I just went by a bar pretty close to the pride festival with a male friend of mine.. We didn't know about it, but when we got there every bartender had the shirt in a knot over their chest (I guess they wanted tips) and they thought we were gay so our 6 cl mohitos became 20 cl mohitos...
Sometimes you're in luck lolz.
The Bioware section of EA consistantly gives you romance options in both directions so to speak, and I think there are plenty of games that have some gay tendences.
Most games don't have sexual options at all.. There are also probably less games with a black main character than games with a gay main character, so I don't think it's a serious underrepresentation.
Most army dudes probably join the army to be able to stare at eachothers dicks in the showers, and considering the amount of games in which warfare is a part - I'd say gays are overrepresentated in games overall.
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On August 02 2011 04:52 Neeh wrote:
I've always been puzzled by the need to have gay characters in videogames. If you think about it, very few games focus on anyone sexuality to begin with, for all you know the 14th marine you made today was gay, but there's no need to have banner flying across the screen letting you know.
Bioware have given alot of options, wich is fair, but aslong as there's no "THIS GUY IS HETRO BTW", there should be no need for "THIS GUY IS GAY" focus either.
If you want, you can pretend half the npcs in any rpg are gay, whatever floats your boat.
This.
The majority of the people I know don't define themselves by their sexuality. There is more to a person than that and it shouldn't be the first thing you hear about the person. There are a few games where the sexuality of your character comes up but the only ones who really care are 13 year old boys who hope to see some pixilated nips or apparently the gay community. The gamers I know play a game normally because it involves violence in some visually gratifying manner rather than because the character sleeps with so and so. Sure it might be fun to occasionally play Fable 3 and try to have sex with as many people as you can at once but even without that the game wouldn't be any different. I feel that all too often, the gay community is overly concerned with making sure that everyone knows that they are gay and that they should accept that. They spend far too much time talking about, thinking about, making sure everyone else in the world knows about and approves about, what they do in the bed time. The only time my sexuality ever comes up is in the bed room. I feel no need to parade around and make sure that in every aspect of my life everyone knows, I have sex with women.
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EPT
