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Hi TL!
On wendsday in going to be attending at a panel discussion at Swedish pride (Gay and Queer festival) and talk about norms videogames. I work as a esportsreporter for several Swedish mediachannnels and i am kind of going to represent gaming, especially esports.
So what i would like your opinion on is:
There are very few gay characters in videogames, compared to the heteroexual ones, and also quite few female characters. However there are a lot of female and queer games out there and they are not represented in any way. How does this affect the way we look at queers etc? Does it affect us at all?
Does if affect how WANTS to play, since they might feel uninvited and excluded?
Would it diffucult to admitt that you are gay say when playing online or in gamersociety? Would such person be treated differently? How would you react if a good progamer came out as gay?
Do we need to change they way we portrait norms in videogames? Does it affect how we perceive reality?
What kind of norms and values are advocated in games?
id like to point out that the questions are not necessary representations of MY thought, but the questions i was asked to think and analyse about. The gay comunity in Sweden however does think it is important enought to discuss.
Thx for every answer ^^ Anyone in Stockholm be sure to show up! Kulturhuset på onsdag 14.15.
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lol
User was warned for this post
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sorry for misspelling the topicheader!
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I fail to see how someone's sexual preferences are in any way related to gaming. What does it matter what the main protagonist of the game you play does at night, and with whom?
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This only becomes a problem once you name it a problem. I've never thought about this before this post and wont care even a little bit if any progamer was gay or not.
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Using an example, not being a gay character in GTA4 affects me exactly as much as not being an asian character, meaning nothing at all.
And if you are to claim that video games have such a profound effect on people, you would also be validating the idea that violent games make you violent, which has been refuted over and over again.
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United States7481 Posts
hey magenta,
I can't speak on the topic myself from the perspective you want but I think the good people over in this topic might be of help to you.
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You know what I love about the internets? Whether you're black, white, brown, yellow, straight, gay, or any mix of the aforementioned, it doesn't really matter. No one can tell. Why make a non-issue an issue?
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On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:
What kind of norms and values are advocated in games?
Don't like something? Kill it.
End of norms list.
"There aren't many gay characters or female characters" - Most, if not all games to ever exist, have female characters. A lot of them. Now you could argue that they are over sexualized, but they still exist.
The lack of gay characters thing is... irrelevent.
It's not that there is a lack of gay characters. It's that we don't care what said characters do with their NONEXISTENT penises. No one asks if Rory Swann is gay, because no one cares. If blizzard went out of their way to overly "gay" him, it would only hurt gays who want homosexuality to be integrated into the hetero-normative society.
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On August 02 2011 03:33 contraSol wrote:
You know what I love about the internets? Whether you're black, white, brown, yellow, straight, gay, or any mix of the aforementioned, it doesn't really matter. No one can tell. Why make a non-issue an issue?
pretty much this... do people of every gender/ethnicity/sexual preference etc. need a "representative" for every sport/activity? I wonder if there is a gay gamer who feels like OP is doing them a good deed, I am curious to know...
edit: good point about rory swann et all above too
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Why does everyone have to be represented? I don't get it. Such thought processes have only lead to such things as 'the token black guy' in so many various forms of media. Like in Thor, for instance. There was a token asian guy and a token black guy, in a film that was supposed to be based on a comic book, that is based on norse mythology of which asians and black guys are nowhere to be found. Would a token gay guy make you feel good about yourself, or the role of the character, somehow?
I mean, I guess you can cite the recent Bioware games of giving the protagonist gay romance options, but those are exactly the thing I'm talking about. It's just there to make people feel good. It doesn't have any meaningful impact on the story, or the gameplay. It's a shallow plug to grab a little extra audience, while trying to be as insignificant as possible to maintain the core audience.
Isn't that kind of thing actually more insulting?
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I lol'd and facepalmed, hard.
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As usual, gays/lesbians trying to reassure they have representation in every aspect of life.
You know, I have no problem whatsoever on anybody's sexual preferences but whats next? A gay Tony the Tiger on my Frosties cereal box?
(although he must be gay wearing that scarf...)
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id like to point out that the questions are not necessary representations of MY thought, but the questions i was asked to think and analyse about. The gay comunity in Sweden however does think it is important enought to discuss.
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gay or not
that makes no difference for me i guess
i dont think i would care at all if some progamer would is gay or hetero and i would say most of the community wouldnt
EDIT: at least i hope
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I'm very much out to my gamer friends. They treat me the same as anyone else, though they know not to call things they don't like "gay" or "faggot."
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On August 02 2011 03:33 contraSol wrote:
You know what I love about the internets? Whether you're black, white, brown, yellow, straight, gay, or any mix of the aforementioned, it doesn't really matter. No one can tell. Why make a non-issue an issue?
the main guy in GTA:San Andreas is black, and i never felt the guy does not represent me because of this. In fact, I don't want a white guy looking like me in videogames. I look like myself in real-life, time for something new while playing
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On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:
Hi TL!
On wendsday in going to be attending at a panel discussion at Swedish pride (Gay and Queer festival) and talk about norms videogames. I work as a esportsreporter for several Swedish mediachannnels and i am kind of going to represent gaming, especially esports.
So what i would like your opinion on is:
There are very few gay characters in videogames, compared to the heteroexual ones, and also quite few female characters. However there are a lot of female and queer games out there and they are not represented in any way. How does this affect the way we look at queers etc? Does it affect us at all?
Does if affect how WANTS to play, since they might feel uninvited and excluded?
Would it diffucult to admitt that you are gay say when playing online or in gamersociety? Would such person be treated differently? How would you react if a good progamer came out as gay?
Do we need to change they way we portrait norms in videogames? Does it affect how we perceive reality?
What kind of norms and values are advocated in games?
Thx for every answer. This is serious business boys and girls. Anyone in Stockholm be sure to show up! Kulturhuset på onsdag 14.15.
Values advocated in Games
1. Skill
2. Strategy
3. Manner
Sexual preference has no place in gaming what so ever
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On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:
This is serious business boys and girls. Anyone in Stockholm be sure to show up! Kulturhuset på onsdag 14.15.
LOL
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On August 02 2011 03:31 Slaytilost wrote:
I fail to see how someone's sexual preferences are in any way related to gaming.
My thought exactly.
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Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference.
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I don't see why it matters, and that's the issue I have with some of the gay community.
Screaming look at me I'm gay and proud, so what? I'm straight and proud. I don't shout it from the rooftops. Gays are accepted in most circles now and those that don't accept are uneducated cave men that need to evolve.
I dont say Hi, GLHF btw I'm straight, why would you want to say Hi GLHF, I'm gay, the internet is a place full of stupid people with anonymity. All that will happen is a twat gives you shit, OR, someone will say so what, why are you telling me?
If a pro player I respected came out and said he was gay would I like him any less? Nope. But sexuality to some is a private thing.
So again, it doesen't matter.
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If your values or perceptions of reality are actually measurably affected by the video games you play, you probably have much bigger problems to worry about...
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On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference.
I think Race is pretty significant part of gaming. Racial Traits are pretty important in some RPGs and stuff and in RTS well ....
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On August 02 2011 03:54 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. I think Race is pretty significant part of gaming. Racial Traits are pretty important in some RPGs and stuff and in RTS well ....
Yeah, like Elves and Orcs... -_-
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On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference.
Because a characters race/sexual preference/species what have you ends up tying into there background. Which is highly important in a very story driven game.
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On August 02 2011 03:57 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:54 Blasterion wrote:On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. I think Race is pretty significant part of gaming. Racial Traits are pretty important in some RPGs and stuff and in RTS well .... Yeah, like Elves and Orcs... -_-
dude wisp form is totally OP
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I'm sure that the PC community wouldn't care nearly as much as the console community, but I have never discussed my sexuality with anyone on a console.
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THere aren't any Asian characters in the SC2 universe.  We should have a conference about this, especially since Asian gamers dominate the entire competitive scene.
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On August 02 2011 03:54 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. I think Race is pretty significant part of gaming. Racial Traits are pretty important in some RPGs and stuff and in RTS well ....
What RPGs have "White guy: +45% obtain job chance, Black guy: +1m jump height, Female character: +50 points in Seduction vs male characters"?
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There's also a significant lack of realism in games in that I rarely see games where the protagonist has to have a snack, take a shit or takes the time to rub one off. It is HIGHLY unlikely that someone NEVER has to take a shit. I therefore...
...no really, who cares about sexual orientation of player characters? It's only interesting when it's a relevant story element. Games don't have to be (and are not) an accurate reflection of real-world norms, values and population statistics.
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On August 02 2011 04:01 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:54 Blasterion wrote:On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. I think Race is pretty significant part of gaming. Racial Traits are pretty important in some RPGs and stuff and in RTS well .... What RPGs have "White guy: +45% obtain job chance, Black guy: +1m jump height, Female character: +50 points in Seduction vs male characters"?
The closest to that... Age of Empires
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I can totally see the storyline for the SC2 Protoss expansion: Tassadar and Zeratul are bum chums
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On August 02 2011 04:02 Dagobert wrote:
has to have a snack
The Sims
take a shit
The Sims
takes the time to rub one off..
You've honestly got me there, but there's probably some Japanese game out there... Maybe the Sims should take it all the way.
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On August 02 2011 04:03 Chairman Ray wrote:
I can totally see the storyline for the SC2 Protoss expansion: Tassadar and Zeratul are bum chums
Screw that, Selendis X Kerrigan (Yes SxK, no KxS, Selendis dominant Kerrigan submissive) Yuri for life!
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On August 02 2011 04:04 LegendaryZ wrote:The Sims The Sims You've honestly got me there, but there's probably some Japanese game out there... Maybe the Sims should take it all the way.
Believe me it exists, let's take an example....School Days
....
and...
Actually that's all i remember. Every other game has some 1 rubbing it for him
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On August 02 2011 04:03 Chairman Ray wrote:
I can totally see the storyline for the SC2 Protoss expansion: Tassadar and Zeratul are bum chums
which would be really awkward, since Tassardar is dead....
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On August 02 2011 03:59 Belgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. Because a characters race/sexual preference/species what have you ends up tying into there background. Which is highly important in a very story driven game.
Would you say that anyone has even done it successfully with sexual orientation? Bioware is really the only company actively trying to cater to the gay crowd through their romance options, but they're so utterly hollow they've lost all meaning.
They were a surprise and very cool in BG2 and Planescape: Torment. But, now it's been done to death.
Just like real life, nobody but you should give a shit if you're a gay captain Shepard, or a straight captain Shepard. Am I crazy, or are there people that want to take that trivial little gameplay element and turn it into a badge of distinction?
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On August 02 2011 03:35 Chargelot wrote:
It's not that there is a lack of gay characters. It's that we don't care what said characters do with their NONEXISTENT penises. No one asks if Rory Swann is gay, because no one cares. If blizzard went out of their way to overly "gay" him, it would only hurt gays who want homosexuality to be integrated into the hetero-normative society.
Exactly. The vast majority of characters in games is simply of nondefined sexuality. For example, in SC2 we pretty much only know that Jim Raynor is hetero, and that only because he is hot for Kerrigan. As far as i know, neither of the other characters makes any statements whatsoever.
Now, i might be wrong on this, but asking for token gay characters seems strange. I am usually not interested in the sexuality of characters in games if it does not influence the story. I don't think that the sexuality is the main defining characteristic of a person, and as a result it does not require overproportional amounts of attention. Maybe Gordon Freeman is gay, maybe not. The important fact is that he runs around killing combine, not if he does not have sex with a man, or if he does not have sex with a woman.
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Would it diffucult to admitt that you are gay say when playing online or in gamersociety? This is quite the open question,, why would you say you are gay while playing sc2? Can you imagine starting a game by saying," gl hf I like to fuck x"? Now the gamersociety depends on the demographics entirely but more often than not i would say people wont really care unless they are kids, (most extremecons dont play too much) and kids mock minority regardless of reason =/. At least i know i wouldnt care.
Would such person be treated differently?Most of the time, yes , doesnt mean theyll treat him/her bad though, if you want to polarize theyll either flame him til exhaustion or be super sensitive, but of course, reality is more in between.
How would you react if a good progamer came out as gay? They are all korean so im pretty sure theyll get ostracized in SK.
Do we need to change they way we portrait norms in videogames? Does it affect how we perceive reality? Dont know what you mean by norms, law ? morale? For the second question, a game should rely on gameplay first so sexual orientation is, at least at first, out of the question, now when you start putting plot and characters and try to actually create some kind of art through gameplay it SHOULD affect how we perceive reality. This has nothing to do with the issue at hand though.
What kind of norms and values are advocated in games? Same as in movies? Depends entirely on the game and developer, cant really compare Dragon Age to Duke Nukem or Persona.
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On August 02 2011 03:59 Belgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. Because a characters race/sexual preference/species what have you ends up tying into there background. Which is highly important in a very story driven game.
If it's a storyline element then that's perfectly reasonable. What I was referring to is having certain characters be gay for the sole purpose of representing the gay community.
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On August 02 2011 04:09 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:35 Chargelot wrote:
It's not that there is a lack of gay characters. It's that we don't care what said characters do with their NONEXISTENT penises. No one asks if Rory Swann is gay, because no one cares. If blizzard went out of their way to overly "gay" him, it would only hurt gays who want homosexuality to be integrated into the hetero-normative society. Exactly. The vast majority of characters in games is simply of nondefined sexuality. For example, in SC2 we pretty much only know that Jim Raynor is hetero, and that only because he is hot for Kerrigan. As far as i know, neither of the other characters makes any statements whatsoever. Now, i might be wrong on this, but asking for token gay characters seems strange. I am usually not interested in the sexuality of characters in games if it does not influence the story. I don't think that the sexuality is the main defining characteristic of a person, and as a result it does not require overproportional amounts of attention. Maybe Gordon Freeman is gay, maybe not. The important fact is that he runs around killing combine, not if he does not have sex with a man, or if he does not have sex with a woman.
Exactly (to be redundant in using the exact same opening sentence). If you wanted the gaming equivalent of American Beauty, well sex is an important topic there.
But, seriously, just look at the modern state of gaming and tell me that sexual orientation is important to the story.
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BTW I dont know if you (or me) got lost in translation or something but I believe these aren't the proper question to address this issue. More importantly, minorities in online communities are not the same subject as minorities in video games. Theres quite a lot of different factors influencing each.
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On August 02 2011 04:12 skindzer wrote:
BTW I dont know if you (or me) got lost in translation or something but I believe these aren't the proper question to address this issue. More importantly, minorities in online communities are not the same subject as minorities in video games. Theres quite a lot of different factors influencing each.
What questions would be more fittning?
Again, these where the topics I where given for preperations, so this is what im asked to think about.(though I find them interesting)
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Have you ever played a video game?
This is not anime.
We are not anime nerds.
We don't care what makes the characters hot.
If Auron enjoyed gay sex, I doubt it would have made FFX different.
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Well it depends, are you focusing on online communities/online interactions or are you focusing on videogames?
If you are supposed to talk about the former rules or morality in videogames are not an issue at all, you could focus more on stuff like Are people more willing/predisposed to flame each other through online gaming ? Does online competition encourage homophobia? Are players more comfortable spreading their intolerance? Etc..
If the latter then the questions should be completely different. Are videogames as a media accurately portraying society? If so why arent there more gay characters? (Or atheist or vegans or whatever for that matter) . Will gay characters just become a token all politically correct games should have? But for this to actually be an issue sexual orientation should be relevant to the games plot, i dont care about Link or Gordon Freemans sexual orientation, the subject has no place in their respective games. But it could be relevant if the motivation behind a character actions are conditioned by their beliefs and eventually can provides more insight in what the developers wanted for us to experience.
So another question arises.. in games where a character sexual orientation could be important, how is homosexuality portrayed? And if it isnt portrayed in any of those? Why?
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On August 02 2011 04:06 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:59 Belgo wrote:On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. Because a characters race/sexual preference/species what have you ends up tying into there background. Which is highly important in a very story driven game. Would you say that anyone has even done it successfully with sexual orientation? Bioware is really the only company actively trying to cater to the gay crowd through their romance options, but they're so utterly hollow they've lost all meaning. They were a surprise and very cool in BG2 and Planescape: Torment. But, now it's been done to death. Just like real life, nobody but you should give a shit if you're a gay captain Shepard, or a straight captain Shepard. Am I crazy, or are there people that want to take that trivial little gameplay element and turn it into a badge of distinction?
Done to death? And straight romance hasn't been? I don't understand your logic here.
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On August 02 2011 04:16 Magenta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:12 skindzer wrote:
BTW I dont know if you (or me) got lost in translation or something but I believe these aren't the proper question to address this issue. More importantly, minorities in online communities are not the same subject as minorities in video games. Theres quite a lot of different factors influencing each. What questions would be more fittning? Again, these where the topics I where given for preperations, so this is what im asked to think about.(though I find them interesting)
I'd probably start with whether or not sexuality is something that's important to video games in the first place. As many people have already mentioned, it's more often than not something that's used a gimmick rather than a meaningful element of story or gameplay. I suppose my example of this would be The Witcher, which touts itself as a game with a "mature" storyline, but ends up coming off as the bastard child of a textbook fantasy RPG and a Japanese dating sim. Sure, you might get some sort of achievement or a few different lines of text on the screen, but it's hardly consequential and feels more like an afterthought than something incorporated into the game in a deliberate and meaningful way.
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It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive.
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On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive.
I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... And just because it's not tremendously common doesn't mean it's not "normal". Obviously it's normal enough for it to be constantly present in humanity over the course of its history and it's important to recognize that.
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Why does the sexual orientation of a character make a difference in the game you play?
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Enough of this gay rights movement crap. I already have to sit through Dragon Age II having all npc's, male and female, all bisexual - for no other reason than to be politically correct, i'm sure. How would this be plausible in a real life scenario? I mean i do acknowledge and respect your sexual orientation, but keep it to yourself and stop shoving it in my face at every turn.
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First off using the term "Queers" where i live is extremely offensive, and a word i personally hate. Doesn't matter if you are gay or not, its a horrible term that means 'weird' and there is nothing queer about being gay......... but I digress
There is no reason why gay people should be represented in games unless there is value to it from a character perspective, games are fantasy they don't reflect real life and characters are written to fit the storylines of the game. If having a gay character just for the sake of it was enforced on publishers you would end up with many stupid characters that simply don't fit the game.
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I think being gay, or a female, has nothing to do with video game design.
That is like saying, why are most main characters "White"?
It shoudn't really be a part of the design to try and integrate all human sexual orentiations.
I mean for all you know. Zergs and homosexual and protoss are females.
E-sports wise, again gay and femalish = non relevant.
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On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding...
What is every animals main goal in life?
To live long enough to reproduce.
So their species doesn't die out.
That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do.
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I've always been puzzled by the need to have gay characters in videogames. If you think about it, very few games focus on anyone sexuality to begin with, for all you know the 14th marine you made today was gay, but there's no need to have banner flying across the screen letting you know.
Bioware have given alot of options, wich is fair, but aslong as there's no "THIS GUY IS HETRO BTW", there should be no need for "THIS GUY IS GAY" focus either.
If you want, you can pretend half the npcs in any rpg are gay, whatever floats your boat.
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On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do.
And gay animals exist through out the world, its actually more normal than you would think. Humans have moved beyond needing survival of the fittest anyway, we make the world how we want it to be. Humans aren't going anywhere and it has nothing to do with the fact that we are mainly hetro with adoption, sarrogacy and IV gay couples can pass on their genes and have children of their own..... please take your narrow minded views elsewhere
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On August 02 2011 04:31 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:06 Bibdy wrote:On August 02 2011 03:59 Belgo wrote:On August 02 2011 03:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Why is having gay characters in video games beneficial? In fact, why is representing any minority something that's beneficial in video games? When I'm playing video games, the last thing I care about is my character's race or sexual preference. Because a characters race/sexual preference/species what have you ends up tying into there background. Which is highly important in a very story driven game. Would you say that anyone has even done it successfully with sexual orientation? Bioware is really the only company actively trying to cater to the gay crowd through their romance options, but they're so utterly hollow they've lost all meaning. They were a surprise and very cool in BG2 and Planescape: Torment. But, now it's been done to death. Just like real life, nobody but you should give a shit if you're a gay captain Shepard, or a straight captain Shepard. Am I crazy, or are there people that want to take that trivial little gameplay element and turn it into a badge of distinction? Done to death? And straight romance hasn't been? I don't understand your logic here.
Yes, I mean romances in general, not specifically the gay romances. You'll notice I used examples of two games that didn't even have gay romances.
Romances were cool and unique the first few times around, particularly when they actually had an impact on the story!. They were a part of the gameplay in those examples. However, in Bioware's recent endeavors, they're just dilute fan service, and a means to keep grabbing the virtual-romance-obsessed audience again and again.
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On August 02 2011 04:47 emythrel wrote:
First off using the term "Queers" where i live is extremely offensive, and a word i personally hate. Doesn't matter if you are gay or not, its a horrible term that means 'weird' and there is nothing queer about being gay......... but I digress
There is no reason why gay people should be represented in games unless there is value to it from a character perspective, games are fantasy they don't reflect real life and characters are written to fit the storylines of the game. If having a gay character just for the sake of it was enforced on publishers you would end up with many stupid characters that simply don't fit the game.
Sorry if you take offence
In Sweden its an accepted term and does not mean weird, it just means that you are problaby not hetero. The gay movement uses it and you can study queer theory at University.
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Well, in bioware RPG's you have gay characters (who are able to do a romance with you). At least mass effect and dragon age. At the moment I'm not sure if it's possible in BG2.
On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do.
you realize homosexuality also happens and occurs in the animal world? Your "thesis" is disproven.
Also, making minorities visible in media is actually a big part of real acceptance.
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On August 02 2011 03:50 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:33 contraSol wrote:
You know what I love about the internets? Whether you're black, white, brown, yellow, straight, gay, or any mix of the aforementioned, it doesn't really matter. No one can tell. Why make a non-issue an issue?
the main guy in GTA:San Andreas is black, and i never felt the guy does not represent me because of this. In fact, I don't want a white guy looking like me in videogames. I look like myself in real-life, time for something new while playing
Well said, both of you. Character sex, color, sexual orientation and even age have really no bearing on how well a game can be "played". The only requirement for a characters description is that they "fit the role" as it were.
Sexuality is almost never discussed, for the reason that it has no relevance to the gameplay/storyline in most games. If a game DOES come out where the main hero is a homosexual and must rescue their true love (a same-sex character) then of course it would be relevant.
But most games cater to the largest audience possible, and that means the standard guy-rescues-girl plot, where nobody ever asks about any other characters sexuality. Or even race. If there is racism incorporated into a game, it is almost always shown in a negative light.
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On August 02 2011 04:56 Magenta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:47 emythrel wrote:
First off using the term "Queers" where i live is extremely offensive, and a word i personally hate. Doesn't matter if you are gay or not, its a horrible term that means 'weird' and there is nothing queer about being gay......... but I digress
There is no reason why gay people should be represented in games unless there is value to it from a character perspective, games are fantasy they don't reflect real life and characters are written to fit the storylines of the game. If having a gay character just for the sake of it was enforced on publishers you would end up with many stupid characters that simply don't fit the game.
Sorry if you take offence In Sweden its an accepted term and does not mean weird, it just means that you are problaby not hetero.
I assumed as much, was just pointing out that in English speaking countries its considered a bad word lol. the literal definition of 'Queer' is weird as in "that was a queer thing to do" I guess the original meaning gets lost when it finds its way in to other languages ;p
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putting a character that is gay into a game just for the sake of appeasing a panel of "experts" is hilarious and highly ignorant to whatever storyline unless that storyline fits it in naturally. And like all games have women in it....? Not only that but plenty of people play opposite sex characters in RPGs as well soo I'm pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't care.
but you can't preach tolerance without intolerance eh? Afterall, if it doesn't have gay in it then it clearly is wrong. Joke League imo
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On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do.
We've evolved quite far beyond this as a species. I think it's pretty twisted to compare us to a bunch of animals that are incapable of higher thought even though we may technically be animals ourselves. Human beings on an individual level are capable of doing far more for the proliferation of the species than any other animal is. Maybe the best a dog can do to secure the future of its kind is to breed, but dogs also lack the social structure that we have where people play their own roles in the preservation of our communities and thus, our species.
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On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:
How would you react if a good progamer came out as gay?
/facepalm :/
We don't live in the 80s anymore and we don't really care about the sexual orientation of someone as long as they don't make a big deal out of it... really its been like fucking 10 years since they said they knew what hormonal disorder was causing homosexuality and like 20 years since ppl in civilized countries ( such as the Scandinavic countries ) accepted it.
Its just silly asking this kind of question, it just seem to me like gay folks just want attention nowadays.
I can't find one reason why sexual orientation would matter on the internet if you are not visiting a porn site and thus i can find no reason why it would matter in a god dam online game.
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Seems silly, very silly. Sexuality is a personal thing, likewise I could care less if the protagonist likes the color blue, is liberal, is gay, prefers vanilla ice cream over chocolate and so far. It has no place in gaming as its not important. If they started to introduce characters up front as being gay it would be vacuous as that's a personal thing that should be kept to ones self and it has no value or place at all in a video game.
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I'll be there 
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I was a little disappointed by the first two pages of comments on this thread...
On August 02 2011 03:31 Slaytilost wrote:
I fail to see how someone's sexual preferences are in any way related to gaming. What does it matter what the main protagonist of the game you play does at night, and with whom?
Uh, it matters a lot. Most gamers are heterosexual men. Developers know this and they market their games to them. Which is why most protagonists in games are heterosexual white males and the game makes their sexuality very obvious. Whether it's having a girlfriend, having a wife, or just sleeping with tons of women. Now, I think that most of this is just business. I don't think that most developers are racist, homophobic, or sexist. They're just trying to make money and that means appealing to your demographics.
So whether you recognize it or not having a character's sexual preference known is important, so much so that a game that had a homosexual protagonist would probably lose money.
On August 02 2011 03:47 Psychobabas wrote:
As usual, gays/lesbians trying to reassure they have representation in every aspect of life.
You know, I have no problem whatsoever on anybody's sexual preferences but whats next? A gay Tony the Tiger on my Frosties cereal box?
(although he must be gay wearing that scarf...)
Of course there are gays pushing for more representation. Just like there are people and groups pushing for more representation of all minorities in media. Look at the film '21' where the directors cast most of the people as white instead of Asians. Developers aren't any different from movie producers, they understand what characters sell.
Furthermore I don't think the OP is in anyway trying to say that gays should be more represented he's just pointing out that right now they aren't and is asking if that affects us, and for some people I think it does. I can understand if he was saying that there should be gay people in every video game we play ever but he's not, he's just asking for opinions. And most of the questions he asks bring up good points. The only gay characters I can think of in games have been very minor and were often used as comedic relief. I never played it but I think Grand Theft Auto had an expansion pack with a semi-prevalent gay character?
I think the way that most TLers have dismissed this as, "why should it matter" or "no one cares who the protagonist bangs" are being either purposefully ignorant or are a bit naive. Most video game characters are obviously heterosexual.
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Finally, I have had an online gaming friend "come out" and no he did not feel comfortable about it for a long while. At first he just confided in a few people about his sexuality but only in the past few months officially "came out." I do think that the gaming community is not very gay friendly so I can't blame him. Just play online on a console or play computer games that have built in VOIP chat. You'll hear "faggot" and "queer" plenty of times. Whether you think those words hold any meaning or not is irrelevant because there are plenty of people who do get upset by hearing them used with negative connotations.
I don't want to sound like an angry person or like I'm just being someone with the anti-fun police but it bothered me how many comments on TL of all places are just super dismissive and have literally no thought put behind them at all on such a serious topic.
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On August 02 2011 04:47 emythrel wrote:
First off using the term "Queers" where i live is extremely offensive, and a word i personally hate. Doesn't matter if you are gay or not, its a horrible term that means 'weird' and there is nothing queer about being gay......... but I digress
There is no reason why gay people should be represented in games unless there is value to it from a character perspective, games are fantasy they don't reflect real life and characters are written to fit the storylines of the game. If having a gay character just for the sake of it was enforced on publishers you would end up with many stupid characters that simply don't fit the game.
I've been told by some gay people in academia that Queer is a pretty widely used term for academic studies on the matter. :/ Hard to please everyone unfortunately.
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i sense a brokeback king of the hill in this thread ... somewhere oO
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Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. I don't see why it's so important to seperate yourselves, and the same goes for gaming really. I don't care if one of my practice partners/clan mates is gay or hetero. Same thing goes for singleplayer games, like others have pointed out, there aren't many OVERLY heterosexual game characters either. For example you wouldn't know if the dude you're playing in Call of Duty is gay, because it just isn't referenced. And it doesn't need to be, unless it's important for the story - although there are exceptions such as Dragon Age in which you could get with a NPC from the same sex...
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I think anybody who let the fact that a pro-gamer came out to be gay or anything along them lines get to them they're clearly a bit narrow-minded...
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I don't think there are any norms advocated in games. Its what you make it out to be. And it depends on the community.
I don't think casual games or "barbie goes Dallas" can be e-sport games.
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re: queer, it's pretty much the common term in academia (queer studies, queer theory, queering is often used as a verb, etc.)
the first few pages seem to have a bit of unnecessary animosity toward the subject, so maybe it can be questioned in a different way:
does the heteronormativity that exists in gaming culture create a culture that makes it needlessly difficult to be a gay gamer? suppose gay culture was depicted in a way concurrent with modern society. would it cut down on the usage of 'gay' and 'faggot' by gamers or are these more attributable to just general youth/immaturity? do you act towards other gamers the way you act towards other people IRL?
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Jesus christ.. I just went by a bar pretty close to the pride festival with a male friend of mine.. We didn't know about it, but when we got there every bartender had the shirt in a knot over their chest (I guess they wanted tips) and they thought we were gay so our 6 cl mohitos became 20 cl mohitos...
Sometimes you're in luck lolz.
The Bioware section of EA consistantly gives you romance options in both directions so to speak, and I think there are plenty of games that have some gay tendences.
Most games don't have sexual options at all.. There are also probably less games with a black main character than games with a gay main character, so I don't think it's a serious underrepresentation.
Most army dudes probably join the army to be able to stare at eachothers dicks in the showers, and considering the amount of games in which warfare is a part - I'd say gays are overrepresentated in games overall.
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On August 02 2011 04:52 Neeh wrote:
I've always been puzzled by the need to have gay characters in videogames. If you think about it, very few games focus on anyone sexuality to begin with, for all you know the 14th marine you made today was gay, but there's no need to have banner flying across the screen letting you know.
Bioware have given alot of options, wich is fair, but aslong as there's no "THIS GUY IS HETRO BTW", there should be no need for "THIS GUY IS GAY" focus either.
If you want, you can pretend half the npcs in any rpg are gay, whatever floats your boat.
This.
The majority of the people I know don't define themselves by their sexuality. There is more to a person than that and it shouldn't be the first thing you hear about the person. There are a few games where the sexuality of your character comes up but the only ones who really care are 13 year old boys who hope to see some pixilated nips or apparently the gay community. The gamers I know play a game normally because it involves violence in some visually gratifying manner rather than because the character sleeps with so and so. Sure it might be fun to occasionally play Fable 3 and try to have sex with as many people as you can at once but even without that the game wouldn't be any different. I feel that all too often, the gay community is overly concerned with making sure that everyone knows that they are gay and that they should accept that. They spend far too much time talking about, thinking about, making sure everyone else in the world knows about and approves about, what they do in the bed time. The only time my sexuality ever comes up is in the bed room. I feel no need to parade around and make sure that in every aspect of my life everyone knows, I have sex with women.
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On August 02 2011 04:53 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do. And gay animals exist through out the world, its actually more normal than you would think. Humans have moved beyond needing survival of the fittest anyway, we make the world how we want it to be. Humans aren't going anywhere and it has nothing to do with the fact that we are mainly hetro with adoption, sarrogacy and IV gay couples can pass on their genes and have children of their own..... please take your narrow minded views elsewhere
Are you suggesting that humans have moved past the need to do what they were built to do?
Humans aren't going anywhere and it has nothing to do with the fact that we are mainly hetro
If our whole population were to turn gay for the rest of their lives, our species would not survive.
So you want to tell me that our prevalence in this world has nothing to do with heterosexual couples? You are ill informed.
adoption, sarrogacy
You arent having children. You are giving your sperm to some random woman to birth only one of the partners children. Half one of you, half random woman you care nothing about.
Thats seems normal to you? That would indeed be a very strange world if that were the norm. Almost science-fiction esque.
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On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. I don't see why it's so important to seperate yourselves, and the same goes for gaming really. I don't care if one of my practice partners/clan mates is gay or hetero. Same thing goes for singleplayer games, like others have pointed out, there aren't many OVERLY heterosexual game characters either. For example you wouldn't know if the dude you're playing in Call of Duty is gay, because it just isn't referenced. And it doesn't need to be, unless it's important for the story - although there are exceptions such as Dragon Age in which you could get with a NPC from the same sex...
I agree with this, I think pushing for more gay "representation" in media will just lead to stereotypes which is what we want to avoid. Why would you want there to be any difference between gay characters and straight characters? If the story involves romance then sure (a lot of companies do this now anyways), but otherwise it shouldn't matter.
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And thread degenerates into an argument about the merits of homosexuality by page 4... GG folks, I'm out.
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On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:
Would it diffucult to admitt that you are gay say when playing online or in gamersociety? Would such person be treated differently?
Do we need to change they way we portrait norms in videogames? Does it affect how we perceive reality?
What kind of norms and values are advocated in games?
Quite honestly I think that there is a lot of discomfort that homosexuals create among gamers, many of them being young and lacking empathy or understanding of the gay rights struggle. I mean really, who hasn't been called a fag 100 times after beating some dumbass? This would not make me comfortable expressing myself as gay, if I was, I don't think. (Hard to imagine what I would think if I was someone else sometimes) The passionate defense of fag and rape as part of "gamer culture" are symptomatic of this lack of empathy.
The attempt to include the option of acting as a gay protagonist has been in many games has created very shallow romantic options (ie Fable 3 (2?)) but characters that are presented as gay are lacking development or stereotypical while being very rare anyways. While I would not claim to know how much this fantasy affects people's reality, I would have trouble imagining the positive impact. It seems to fit with the "don't flaunt it" mentality.
There is a lot of veiled hostility in general. Actions and words that drip with vitriol and "get back in the closet mentality". See this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=250266
Edit: After reading teh posts written while I was writing I will put my opinion a bit stronger; many gamers are homophobic children and norms in video games cater to this.
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Well, go back and tell the gay community in Sweden that no problems exists and no one really cares about gays and gaming.
Tell them to stop worrying and create artificial issues, when reality is there are none.
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On August 02 2011 05:21 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:53 emythrel wrote:On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do. And gay animals exist through out the world, its actually more normal than you would think. Humans have moved beyond needing survival of the fittest anyway, we make the world how we want it to be. Humans aren't going anywhere and it has nothing to do with the fact that we are mainly hetro with adoption, sarrogacy and IV gay couples can pass on their genes and have children of their own..... please take your narrow minded views elsewhere Are you suggesting that humans have moved past the need to do what they were built to do? Show nested quote +Humans aren't going anywhere and it has nothing to do with the fact that we are mainly hetro If our whole population were to turn gay for the rest of their lives, our species would not survive. So you want to tell me that our prevalence in this world has nothing to do with heterosexual couples? You are ill informed. You arent having children. You are giving your sperm to some random woman to birth only one of the partners children. Half one of you, half random woman you care nothing about. Thats seems normal to you? That would indeed be a very strange world if that were the norm. Almost science-fiction esque.
I'd say we all live to find our own happiness in life. For some people, that's pumping out a fuckton of kids. For some couples, even heterosexual couples, they choose not to have kids at all. Some decide to have kids too late and choose to adopt a child instead of spreading their own genetic goo through space and time. If some people choose to be gay and not provide children, I don't see how that's any different than a heterosexual couple that doesn't have kids. Particularly in the adoption case.
Are you saying we're all obligated to the species to get our fuck on and rear at, absolute minimum, two kids each before we kick the bucket (in order to keep population levels up)?
As for the last comment, I mean shit, welcome to a world of advancing technology? Is the state of technology the exact same today as it was when you were born? What bubble have you been living in?
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Why didn't Jim Raynor ever hook up with Kerrigan, but seems to have a strangely close relationship with a battlecruiser commander who's afraid of women (I forget his name). I think there's representation there.
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To answer the OP's question.
You gain nothing except sparking arguments on forums if there should be more/less/no gay characters in games.
Unless someone is planning on using video games to teach kids about life it's not beneficial. Most kids enjoy killing everyone in site, if there's an entire gay town they can slaughter that just gives them the wrong idea.
the same applies if their character is gay and they kill all straight characters.
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On August 02 2011 05:21 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:53 emythrel wrote:On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do. And gay animals exist through out the world, its actually more normal than you would think. Humans have moved beyond needing survival of the fittest anyway, we make the world how we want it to be. Humans aren't going anywhere and it has nothing to do with the fact that we are mainly hetro with adoption, sarrogacy and IV gay couples can pass on their genes and have children of their own..... please take your narrow minded views elsewhere Are you suggesting that humans have moved past the need to do what they were built to do? Show nested quote +Humans aren't going anywhere and it has nothing to do with the fact that we are mainly hetro If our whole population were to turn gay for the rest of their lives, our species would not survive. So you want to tell me that our prevalence in this world has nothing to do with heterosexual couples? You are ill informed. You arent having children. You are giving your sperm to some random woman to birth only one of the partners children. Half one of you, half random woman you care nothing about. Thats seems normal to you? That would indeed be a very strange world if that were the norm. Almost science-fiction esque.
Well you dont need to have sex to make children, so actually a society of 100% gay people could easily survive
You even said it yourself. Being gay is part of human nature. Besides, if the goal of the human race is to reproduce then there is more to it than having children. Saving lives and curing diseases has as much to do with it, probably even more. So yea your argument doesnt really work.
Getting way off topic though
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Oh lord...threads like this make me ashamed of being gay.
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Since no one mentioned it:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147829
Probably be a better place to ask if you haven't already done so.
We have people like Mora that many people accept and if you follow the discussions following gay marriage and what not on these forums, you'd know our community welcomes them with open arms.
I find it rather amusing that the mainstream gaming developers always focus on silly stereotypes whether it be queers, blacks, Hispanics, etc. It would be nice if they didn't embrace these gender and other stereotypical character types for once.
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How do you know Mario, Luigi, Samus, Bowser, the Koopas, any of the fire emblem characters, any character who does not have sex in game for that matter, isn't gay?
Maybe they all are, and heteros are underrepresented?
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On August 02 2011 05:31 Shiragaku wrote:
Oh lord...threads like this make me ashamed of being gay.
Why?
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On August 02 2011 05:32 StarStruck wrote:Since no one mentioned it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147829Probably be a better place to ask if you haven't already done so. We have people like Mora that many people accept and if you follow the discussions following gay marriage and what not on these forums, you'd know our community welcomes them with open arms. I find it rather amusing that the mainstream gaming developers always focus on silly stereotypes whether it be queers, blacks, Hispanics, etc. It would be nice if they didn't embrace these gender and other stereotypical character types for once.
what are u smoking. it was mentioned twice on the first page..
On August 02 2011 05:33 Magenta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 05:31 Shiragaku wrote:
Oh lord...threads like this make me ashamed of being gay. Why?
probably because he feels like you're making a fool of yourself as you pretend to represent gay esporters... why do you have to ask why?
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On August 02 2011 04:56 BlackFlag wrote:Well, in bioware RPG's you have gay characters (who are able to do a romance with you). At least mass effect and dragon age. At the moment I'm not sure if it's possible in BG2. Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do. you realize homosexuality also happens and occurs in the animal world? Your "thesis" is disproven. Also, making minorities visible in media is actually a big part of real acceptance.
Gay animals serve no purpose.
Two female chimpanzees rubbing their vaginas together proves nothing except that they wanted to feel good at that time. If a male chimp wanted to mate with one of them, I'm pretty sure neither would not disapprove.
To be homosexual means that you will only have sex with someone of your same gender.
There have been no documented cases of this. Only bisexuality.
A black minority does not equal a gay minority.
It is perfectly normal to be black.
It is not normal to be gay.
Homosexuality is not equally as correct as heterosexuality. They should not be portrayed as such.
If you have studied the anatomy of a penis and a vagina, even remotely, they are clearly made for each other.
As for a mouth or an anus, they are not made to be used sexually. Anal cavities dont even produce lubrication. CLEARLY it is not meant to have a penis in it.
Therefore they are not the same as having actual sex with a penis and vagina.
Penis+Anus is not an equally valid sexual choice as Penis+Vagina.
This is not to say that anal sex cannot be pleasurable. I am only stating that any form of homosexual sex is on the same level as oral sex or the like. You are using two parts that are not made for each other.
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Why?[/QUOTE]
probably because he feels like you're making a fool of yourself as you pretend to represent gay esporters... why do you have to ask why?[/QUOTE]
Why do you feel that im making a fool of myself? I am asking questions that I was given by one of the major organisations for the gay community in Sweden. Its also a feminist forum so that would be my part also, being a girl and a feminist.
I still feel that is a legimit question that needs to be adressed. Maybe you dont feel it but other people do. No need to be rude just cuz you dont agree.
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On August 02 2011 05:41 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:56 BlackFlag wrote:Well, in bioware RPG's you have gay characters (who are able to do a romance with you). At least mass effect and dragon age. At the moment I'm not sure if it's possible in BG2. On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do. you realize homosexuality also happens and occurs in the animal world? Your "thesis" is disproven. Also, making minorities visible in media is actually a big part of real acceptance. Gay animals serve no purpose. Two female chimpanzees rubbing their vaginas together proves nothing except that they wanted to feel good at that time. If a male chimp wanted to mate with one of them, I'm pretty sure neither would not disapprove. To be homosexual means that you will only have sex with someone of your same gender. There have been no documented cases of this. Only bisexuality. A black minority does not equal a gay minority. It is perfectly normal to be black. It is not normal to be gay. Homosexuality is not equally as correct as heterosexuality. They should not be portrayed as such. If you have studied the anatomy of a penis and a vagina, even remotely, they are clearly made for each other. As for a mouth or an anus, they are not made to be used sexually. Anal cavities dont even produce lubrication. CLEARLY it is not meant to have a penis in it. Therefore they are not the same as having actual sex with a penis and vagina. Penis+Anus is not an equally valid sexual choice as Penis+Vagina. This is not to say that anal sex cannot be pleasurable. I am only stating that any form of homosexual sex is on the same level as oral sex or the like. You are using two parts that are not made for each other.
I believe that this guy is probably f5ing like hell right now. We have all heard this argument, no need to beat a dead horse.
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Basically, every third person shooter is gay heaven!
Watching your male character's ass for 8+ hours should give you an idea.
For examples you should also look at japanese games. Their male heroes are mostly overly beautiful guys without facial hair and an almost female face.
Examples?
Nero / Devil May Cry
Cloud ff7
Squall ff8
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I am pretty indifferent about gay protagonists in games. Maybe Master chief is gay? Maybe he isn't. I don't care and I don't have to know.
I think the amount of men/woman/gays/straights etc. in films movies or other media should have NO value or meaning whatsoever. The only thing that sort of sentiment accomplishes is forcing companies to include minorities into their media which is not a good thing imo.
Devolopers and producers are free to include minorities into their media and that is what matters. I don't think the amount of minorities represented in games influences our views on those minorities. It's probably the other way around (or rather companies try to guess our views and play safe to get the most sales and not offend anyone).
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I'm looking forward to a day where no gay/lesbian person needs to tell that he/she is gay/lesbian because it's totally accpeted by everyone. I wish I will live long enough to see that
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Hmmm, I'm from Madison, Wisconsin which has a very active LGBT community which my sister takes part in. I can tell you right now, queer is NOT an acceptable term. It may be fine in "academia" whatever the hell that means, but it is NOT OK to say that to a homosexual on the street here in Madtown.
About gays in games:
I really don't see the big deal. Let me look at my phone and see which games I have:
Angry birds - Sexually ambiguous
Tower defense - Sexually ambiguous
Cribbage - Sexually ambiguous
Poker - Sexually ambiguous
Icacia3 - saving princess, but sexually ambiguous
PC games
SC2 - sexually ambiguous gameplay, hetero main char with all other chars ambiguous
LoL - most chars sexually ambiguous, have to admit, haven't read all the lore
Counter-Strike - sexually ambiguous
Assassins Cred - sexually ambiguous
Diablo 2 - sexually ambiguous
Supreme Commander 2 - sexually ambiguous
Are we seeing a pattern here?
Most games, due to being marketed mainly for a adolescent-child audience, don't really include much references to sex whatsoever. I can see something like Duke Nukem getting on your nerves, but that's what that game is supposed to do. It's a terrible game that gets sales through controversy.
I, honestly, think you are making much ado about nothing here. There are very few games where the main character is OVERTLY hetero, and as pointed out earlier in the thread, those that are now usually offer a "gay path" of some sort.
The only genre that this even applies to is RPGs, and sadly most East Asian RPGs will continue to be overtly hetero due to the shame involved in homosexual behavior in said societies.
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First off, I don't really see the need for sex in movies/games/series, straight nor homosexual. I've got real porn for that. Worst example I have seen yet: Game of Thrones.
How does this affect the way we look at queers etc? Does it affect us at all?
Maybe roles like "Mr. Shanks" in Borderlands - The secret armory of general knoxx. Other than that I personally don't care for a characters sexual preferences, I prefer there is none at all, but either is fine.
Would it diffucult to admitt that you are gay say when playing online or in gamersociety? Would such person be treated differently? How would you react if a good progamer came out as gay?
I'm not gay myself, so I cannot answer the first part. However, I do not care that someone is gay, but I might take offence to some gay behaviour. Say if Day[9] suddenly would wear loads of glitter, and spend large portions of his show talking about make up and what boys he liked and in other ways behave like a six year old girl, then I might stop watching the show.
The only time I would take direct offence if someone is gay is if they were hitting on me, and not stopping when asked.
Do we need to change they way we portrait norms in videogames? Does it affect how we perceive reality?
Video games has nothing to do with reality. There is no need in my eyes to change any norms present today, video games are about being awesome. Else, it would be more important to have more fat protagonists than more gay ones. As someone said earlier, if it weaves in a new dimension in the story telling I like it, otherwise, it is just unnecessary.
What kind of norms and values are advocated in games?
It depends on the genre of games. Most often in a situation where there are more pressing things to discuss than equal rights for all genders, survival tends to take priority, and the rest becomes trivial issues not worth mentioning. Maybe priority is the most valued in modern games, and in all else, like the Sims, everything is possible.
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On August 02 2011 03:31 Dwelf wrote:
This only becomes a problem once you name it a problem. I've never thought about this before this post and wont care even a little bit if any progamer was gay or not.
This completely.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina114 Posts
On August 02 2011 04:05 Magenta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:03 Chairman Ray wrote:
I can totally see the storyline for the SC2 Protoss expansion: Tassadar and Zeratul are bum chums which would be really awkward, since Tassardar is dead....
Haha, yeah, necrophiliacs are totally underrepresented in video games! :-)
Edit: On topic, I think that any gamer in limelight 'coming out' would just make things really really awkward and wouldn't do anything to help people accept him or her. It's not the best way to do it, is all I can say.
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On August 02 2011 05:41 krbz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:56 BlackFlag wrote:Well, in bioware RPG's you have gay characters (who are able to do a romance with you). At least mass effect and dragon age. At the moment I'm not sure if it's possible in BG2. On August 02 2011 04:51 krbz wrote:On August 02 2011 04:41 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 krbz wrote:
It is normal not to be gay, hence what you perceived as a lack of gay representation.
Gay people are out numbered by straight people for a reason.
Gay couples serve no purpose in keeping our species alive. I'm not gay myself, but that's a pretty horrible way to see things. There's a lot more you can contribute to society and the human race than breeding... What is every animals main goal in life? To live long enough to reproduce. So their species doesn't die out. That is the nature of this world. This is not horrible in any sense. It is merely normal. What you were built to do. you realize homosexuality also happens and occurs in the animal world? Your "thesis" is disproven. Also, making minorities visible in media is actually a big part of real acceptance. Gay animals serve no purpose. Two female chimpanzees rubbing their vaginas together proves nothing except that they wanted to feel good at that time. If a male chimp wanted to mate with one of them, I'm pretty sure neither would not disapprove. To be homosexual means that you will only have sex with someone of your same gender. There have been no documented cases of this. Only bisexuality. A black minority does not equal a gay minority. It is perfectly normal to be black. It is not normal to be gay. Homosexuality is not equally as correct as heterosexuality. They should not be portrayed as such. If you have studied the anatomy of a penis and a vagina, even remotely, they are clearly made for each other. As for a mouth or an anus, they are not made to be used sexually. Anal cavities dont even produce lubrication. CLEARLY it is not meant to have a penis in it. Therefore they are not the same as having actual sex with a penis and vagina. Penis+Anus is not an equally valid sexual choice as Penis+Vagina. This is not to say that anal sex cannot be pleasurable. I am only stating that any form of homosexual sex is on the same level as oral sex or the like. You are using two parts that are not made for each other.
Actually there are tonnes of examples in nature where animals refuse to have sex with the opposite sex. They're not bisexual, they're full out homosexual.
I saw a show about it on nature channel or discovery or something like that.. It was pretty interesting.
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On August 02 2011 05:21 krbz wrote:
Are you suggesting that humans have moved past the need to do what they were built to do?
Yes, that is precisely what's being suggested. As we've evolved as a species we've evolved past the need for every individual to breed in order to maintain the species. This is why it's fine for people to be homosexual and just as fine for many heterosexual couples to refrain from having children. If anything, given the average human lifespan and consumption of resources, if people existed on this earth just to "do what they were built to do" as you refer to it, it would actually be a lot more problematic for the species overall at this point.
If our whole population were to turn gay for the rest of their lives, our species would not survive.
Obviously not. Is anyone here suggesting that it would? Nobody here is suggesting that everyone turn gay for the rest of their lives. They are just pointing out that there's more than enough reproduction going on to secure our future. We don't need to sit around and make silly arguments for some hypothetical situation where all of humanity goes gay or the survival of our species is somehow jeopardized by a lack of people having babies.
So you want to tell me that our prevalence in this world has nothing to do with heterosexual couples? You are ill informed.
Our existence, of course, is secured by people having children, but our prevalence in this world is due to many other factors as well. It's not like we're no most prolific species in the world as far as reproduction goes. Our success as a race is largely due to our ability to adapt to our environment and create technology to increase our standard of life. Weapons, shelter, medicine, etc. You can't just boil it all down to a single factor. Something to consider, every animal that exists today can reproduce, many with much more efficiency than us. Why is it that they haven't had the same type of success that we have? Clearly there's a lot more contributing to our position in the world than just reproduction, which means that there are a lot more ways for people to legitimately contribute to the species and society beyond it.
You arent having children. You are giving your sperm to some random woman to birth only one of the partners children. Half one of you, half random woman you care nothing about.
Thats seems normal to you? That would indeed be a very strange world if that were the norm. Almost science-fiction esque.
So this is what it pretty much comes down to for you. Your own discomfort with the idea that nuclear family as we know it today may become obsolete due to our ever advancing capabilities as a species. Let me pose these questions for you. How do you know that it's normal to have a family like that? What does "normal" even mean to you in that context? Is it because those are the values you were brought up on? What about single parents today? It's pretty clear that there's enough children growing up in the world without one of the two parents to care about or who care for them. Is this still abnormal to you despite how common it is?
You seem to continually fall back on some sort of idea about what's "normal" or what "we were built to do" as if our species had some sort of intrinsic purpose. What you're not realizing is that (unless you're religious) animals don't exist to reproduce. They exist BECAUSE they reproduce. Religious views aside, there's no deeper purpose in our existence be it the proliferation of our species or preservation of it. We're the ones that assign purpose to ourselves only because we're capable of doing so. Whether that be in the form of preserving "traditional" values that we learned growing up or shedding those to accept some "science-fiction esque" change, who's to say which is right and what we ought to do?
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Legend, please don't feed the trolls, try to stay on topic
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On August 02 2011 05:50 greendestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:05 Magenta wrote:On August 02 2011 04:03 Chairman Ray wrote:
I can totally see the storyline for the SC2 Protoss expansion: Tassadar and Zeratul are bum chums which would be really awkward, since Tassardar is dead.... Haha, yeah, necrophiliacs are totally underrepresented in video games! :-) Edit: On topic, I think that any gamer in limelight 'coming out' would just make things really really awkward and wouldn't do anything to help people accept him or her. It's not the best way to do it, is all I can say.
I disagree. Remember Gareth Thomas? There was a whole media circus on him and with modern day media airing shows like Glee which encourages people to accept homosexuality (whatever is on TV must be okay, right?) I think now would not be a bad time to come out. But I do not know if it will have that big of an effect on TL since most of us are very liberal when it comes to sexuality.
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well haven't really given much thought to this, but I don't really see how gays are depicted in games differ from how the world is portrayed via other kinds of media, eg movies/tv-series/books etc. you have story-driven games that have homosexuality in them as of late (bioware games for one, as has been mentioned), but they are in the minority much as homosexuality in movies and books are in the minority. this could of course be discussed but i think there are already areas in which videogame homosexuality could be integrated and benefit more from, rather than have it as a separate area in and of itself.
a small difference is that story-driven games offer more interaction with what concerns the plot. i do like it when the option exists to be homosexual in a game as i think it adds a small nuance to the game and i see no reason not to have it there. i was a bit flustered when anders came on to me in DA2, lol, and at first i was like "wtf". then i thought about it a bit and was like "cool". there should be more of that, it's smth that could happen irl (fantasy setting aside) and the fact that i got caught so off-guard by it kind of let me know that man, i have some serious prejudice when it comes to male protagonists...
the main difference between gaming and other types of media would, in my mind, be that gaming generally involves more communication between the users, like, when playing starcraft or wow or whatever and this aspect i think is separate.
i for one used to call ppl, units and strategies gay and fag alot when i lost to smth stupid in wc3 for example, until i matured and stopped using those terms as insults in both games and irl. i think that yeah, communication in a video game much like communication anywhere else goes along with a set of preconceptions about sexuality for one but i think i brought my real life social constructs with me and not the other way around.
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How does this affect the way we look at queers etc? Does it affect us at all?
For me it doesn't effect my look on gays at all.
Would it diffucult to admitt that you are gay say when playing online or in gamersociety? Would such person be treated differently? How would you react if a good progamer came out as gay?
There are sadly always trolls and haters on the internet so I wouldn't "admit" or rather tell others I don't know personally that I am gay. I also see no reason to do so and I wouldn't mind this at all.
Would it be difficult to admit you are gay in real life society? I guess it would be and it won't be any different in a gaming society but I don't see what games have to do with this.
Do we need to change they way we portrait norms in videogames? Does it affect how we perceive reality?
No, the way norms are portrait in media for entertainment purposes doesn't effect how we perceive reality so no need to. Developers should be free to portrait norms how they want to.
What kind of norms and values are advocated in games?
It differs from game to game and it doesn't matter one little tiny bit. There is also a difference between portraying norms and "advocating" norms. Games don't do the latter, politics, religion, "news" media and the public tend to be responsible for that.
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On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:Anyone in Stockholm be sure to show up! Kulturhuset på onsdag 14.15.
I'll try to be there! ^^
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Competitive games aren't related to storyline, so this is irrelevant. This is better suited for RPGs, maybe. For FPS the obvious answer is because teenage boys don't like gay people, which is probably 50% of the target demographic.
Honestly, sexuality is irrelevant in Starcraft. I don't see zealots having gay relationships, nor do I see marines making out with medivac pilots. You know why? Because it's completely unrelated to the game we're playing. Sexuality can be discussed for games that have sexuality as a topic. For SCII, it's not that relevant. The Campaign is minor, and extremely few people care about it, nor is it a part of "e-sports" in any way.
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Seriously, another thread about someone sexual preferences,
are you people really so empty to find that stuff so much important?
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IMO Duke Nukem is a closet gay. Classic overcompensation.
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Hi TL!
On wendsday in going to be attending at a panel discussion at Nerd pride (1337 festival) and talk about norms videogames. I work as a esportsreporter for several Nerd mediachannnels and i am kind of going to represent gaming, especially esports.
So what i would like your opinion on is:
There are very few nerdy characters in videogames, compared to the socially adjusted ones, and also quite few geeky characters. However there are a lot of nerdy and geeky games out there and they are not represented in any way. How does this affect the way we look at nerds etc? Does it affect us at all?
Does if affect how WANTS to play, since they might feel uninvited and excluded?
Would it diffucult to admitt that you are a nerd say when playing online or in gamersociety? Would such person be treated differently? How would you react if a good progamer came out as being a nerd?
Do we need to change they way we portrait norms in videogames? Does it affect how we perceive reality?
What kind of norms and values are advocated in games?
id like to point out that the questions are not necessary representations of MY thought, but the questions i was asked to think and analyse about. The nerd comunity in 4chan however does think it is important enought to discuss.
Thx for every answer ^^ Anyone in the cyberspace be sure to show up! MLG Anaheim, 14.15.
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This exact thread but for "blacks in games" just got closed...
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While sexual orientation has no place in gaming, the fact that you still hear people calling people faggots or fags all over the place in the online community kinda makes some people feel out of place with it. At least, it makes me feel uncomfortable coming out to people.
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On August 02 2011 06:09 BadWolf0 wrote:
This exact thread but for "blacks in games" just got closed...
That's probably because that thread was clearly a troll.
And for those that prefer to stay on topic, my apologies for the wall of off-topic text. There's only so much obsolete, stone-age mindset I can stomach on a given day.
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On August 02 2011 06:09 BadWolf0 wrote:
This exact thread but for "blacks in games" just got closed...
it was a troll-thread
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On August 02 2011 06:06 Dee-Kej wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:Anyone in Stockholm be sure to show up! Kulturhuset på onsdag 14.15. I'll try to be there! ^^
cool! see you there!
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On August 02 2011 06:11 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:09 BadWolf0 wrote:
This exact thread but for "blacks in games" just got closed... That's probably because that thread was clearly a troll. And for those that prefer to stay on topic, my apologies for the wall of off-topic text. There's only so much obsolete, stone-age mindset I can stomach on a given day.
To be fair the mods on tl arent exactly super knowledgeable about honest trolling. They've been having difficulty keeping up with meme's from 4chan ever since sc2 drove up traffic beyond their usual tiny niche
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On August 02 2011 05:06 appe wrote:I'll be there
åsum! Välkommen! ^^
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This is how I see it, I play games to have fun and/or be competitive. I don't play games to hear/see/learn about hetro/homo - sexual relationships. You can of course get games that focus on these things, but I don't buy those games. I play for different reasons.
I see it this way, If Day(9) started talk about girls or guys he fancies or has banged on his show, I would be annoyed. Why? Cause I want to focus on the game, not on Day(9)'s sexuality.
OP, Maybe you play games looking for sexuality?
Maybe you should be going out side looking for sexuality?
Play games for fun ??
Play games for sexuality??
Also, the only reason homo's are under represented in your view, is because there is literally less population mass of homos. Therefore a less marketable population. When gays either are a great population number or is seen to be a high spending target demographic will be when company's, start to market their product towards homos.
(homo short for homosexual, hetro short for hertosexual)
Next time you worry about the characters in video games not being homo enough, how about making your own games?
Company's like Blizzard (who have generally made very sexually ambiguous games) make games for different reasons than what you seem to want out of games.
Next time just either focus on having fun, instead of wanting sexuality in games.
More gg, less qq
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Well now there's a thread on dragons...
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On August 02 2011 06:14 abominare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:11 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 02 2011 06:09 BadWolf0 wrote:
This exact thread but for "blacks in games" just got closed... That's probably because that thread was clearly a troll. And for those that prefer to stay on topic, my apologies for the wall of off-topic text. There's only so much obsolete, stone-age mindset I can stomach on a given day. To be fair the mods on tl arent exactly super knowledgeable about honest trolling. They've been having difficulty keeping up with meme's from 4chan ever since sc2 drove up traffic beyond their usual tiny niche
I like oranges. I try to be as relevant as the post I am quoting.
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And yet another thread screaming I want to be accepted for what I am, but in most cases gay people already are. Maybe if gay people stopped ramming they are gay down everyone's throats the transition to "acceptance" would be a great deal quicker.
Close the thread.
And go here Gay Starcraft Players
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On August 02 2011 06:20 Chairman Ray wrote:
Well now there's a thread on dragons...
idk dragons seem more interesting than gay people.
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On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not.
Those damn faggots wanna be a visible part of society too, fuck them!!! Especially that you mention soccer, where being gay is a "death sentence"... there are probably not many more activities where more homophobia exists. Homosexuality is only that much tolerated in society, as long as they aren't seen. Tolerance just gets pretended, it's fake as so much in "our" society.
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On August 02 2011 06:27 BlackFlag wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. Those damn faggots wanna be a visible part of society too, fuck them!!! Especially that you mention soccer, where being gay is a "death sentence"... there are probably not many more activities where more homophobia exists. Homosexuality is only that much tolerated in society, as long as they aren't seen. Tolerance just gets pretended, it's fake as so much in "our" society.
I hope you're being ironic.
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this thread getting trolled hard feel kinda bad even tho i think the trolls are right , sure some ppl care about players being gay but these ppl will be in every community and the the people in this communtiny who dont give a fuck about the sexuality are just annoyed by such kind of threads like this
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On August 02 2011 06:29 Drteeth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:27 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. Those damn faggots wanna be a visible part of society too, fuck them!!! Especially that you mention soccer, where being gay is a "death sentence"... there are probably not many more activities where more homophobia exists. Homosexuality is only that much tolerated in society, as long as they aren't seen. Tolerance just gets pretended, it's fake as so much in "our" society. I hope you're being ironic.
Because I try to look past the curtain? How many people tell you they are ok with gays but feel disgusted and uneasy if they see two men kiss each other in public?
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Personally I think gay characters in games are often hilarious (see: Ballad of Gay Tony) and I wouldn't mind seeing more of them, and I'm straight. Not sure why everyone is being so negative.
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On August 02 2011 06:32 BlackFlag wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:29 Drteeth wrote:On August 02 2011 06:27 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. Those damn faggots wanna be a visible part of society too, fuck them!!! Especially that you mention soccer, where being gay is a "death sentence"... there are probably not many more activities where more homophobia exists. Homosexuality is only that much tolerated in society, as long as they aren't seen. Tolerance just gets pretended, it's fake as so much in "our" society. I hope you're being ironic. Because I try to look past the curtain? How many people tell you they are ok with gays but feel disgusted and uneasy if they see two men kiss each other in public?
You want to control how people feel?
Also, how can you know what they are feeling? You psychic?
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You should try and find out what pros are gay and ask them about their opinion. *cough, Painuser.
+ Show Spoiler +
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There are lots of bi/ and tg characters in fighting games. Poison for example, bridgette? or whatever the name is, and then there are a bunch of androgenous characters like remy and other randoms from those more anime lookin fighter games.
Yoshi and Birdo are the opposite sexes you would think.
uh what else.. Oh yea Tydus from FFX lol everyone thought he was a girl until he made out with yuna
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im all for it as long as there is something that benefits the games story or w/e. just having it for the sake of having it is pointless.
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On August 02 2011 06:35 Aruno wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:32 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 06:29 Drteeth wrote:On August 02 2011 06:27 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. Those damn faggots wanna be a visible part of society too, fuck them!!! Especially that you mention soccer, where being gay is a "death sentence"... there are probably not many more activities where more homophobia exists. Homosexuality is only that much tolerated in society, as long as they aren't seen. Tolerance just gets pretended, it's fake as so much in "our" society. I hope you're being ironic. Because I try to look past the curtain? How many people tell you they are ok with gays but feel disgusted and uneasy if they see two men kiss each other in public? You want to control how people feel? Also, how can you know what they are feeling? You psychic?
I have a mouth, and I'm forming words with it. Other people do this too, this process is called talking. You know what that is?
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On August 02 2011 06:36 Kevan wrote:You should try and find out what pros are gay and ask them about their opinion. *cough, Painuser. + Show Spoiler +
Wow that was intense.
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This is not funny anymore. STOP SPAMMING THE FORUM WITH IMITATIONS
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On August 02 2011 06:39 BlackFlag wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:35 Aruno wrote:On August 02 2011 06:32 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 06:29 Drteeth wrote:On August 02 2011 06:27 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. Those damn faggots wanna be a visible part of society too, fuck them!!! Especially that you mention soccer, where being gay is a "death sentence"... there are probably not many more activities where more homophobia exists. Homosexuality is only that much tolerated in society, as long as they aren't seen. Tolerance just gets pretended, it's fake as so much in "our" society. I hope you're being ironic. Because I try to look past the curtain? How many people tell you they are ok with gays but feel disgusted and uneasy if they see two men kiss each other in public? You want to control how people feel? Also, how can you know what they are feeling? You psychic? I have a mouth, and I'm forming words with it. Other people do this too, this process is called talking. You know what that is?
Your not talking, Your typing
+ Show Spoiler +
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serious question, assuming people are done trolling: do you feel as though you act and treat people in a gaming space the same way that you would outside of that gaming space? do you use the same kind of language?
space just being loosely defined as the zone of interactions within the game itself, voice chat, text-based chat, etc
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Oh no Sonuvbob closed the dragon thread!
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On August 02 2011 06:43 Hesmyrr wrote:
This is not funny anymore. STOP SPAMMING THE FORUM WITH IMITATIONS
hi i see that you are having a fun time on the internet... lighten up yo
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Does anyone have that pic from the ROFL thread showing a couple of single mothers talking about how they're worried one of their sons doesn't have a father figure in his life to guide his way... And then the next panel was him playing Donkey Kong and the character saying: "Follow your dreams!"
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Eh, I think it's all proportional. I mean, most people are heterosexual, so it makes sense that most characters are. If most of the populace is heterosexual it just makes marketing sense to give them a character they can relate to more so.
As for female characters, I think that has more to do with gamer demographics. But hey, I'm all for having a bit more diversity in games, makes the world more real.
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On August 02 2011 06:32 BlackFlag wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:29 Drteeth wrote:On August 02 2011 06:27 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. Those damn faggots wanna be a visible part of society too, fuck them!!! Especially that you mention soccer, where being gay is a "death sentence"... there are probably not many more activities where more homophobia exists. Homosexuality is only that much tolerated in society, as long as they aren't seen. Tolerance just gets pretended, it's fake as so much in "our" society. I hope you're being ironic. Because I try to look past the curtain? How many people tell you they are ok with gays but feel disgusted and uneasy if they see two men kiss each other in public?
You can feel uneasy about something without morally disapproving of it. I feel uneasy when I see someone eating bull-testicles, when I see an overweight guy jogging by, see a someone lighting a cigarette or even when a heterosexual couple are pretty much eating eachothers faces in public. Doesn't mean I actually morally disapprove of what their doing, or have something against it. Social acceptance doesn't imply that everyone agrees with your choices.
Lesbians kissing in public tho, that's another story entirely. We need public service announcements promoting that shit.
More OT: Commercial products are driven by demand, not by morality. If the lack of gay gaming characters were such a big deal for gay gamers, some company would have stepped in already and created a gay gaming experience (think Tyler Perry for movies). The fact that it hasn't happened (yet) means that actual gay gamers place more value on quality rather then the 'gay' part of games, which I can only applaud them for.
Also, in games where sexuality is relevant (think second life, or MMORPG's in general), you already have the choice. Sexuality only comes into play in social situations, which games simply aren't about. A 'don't ask don't tell'- call of duty storyline would be highly entertaining tho, if only to see america freak out about it, see it get banned from parts of the country while being cool with shooting civilians :p.
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i think the personal lives of video game characters should be kept secret. so we only see theyr awsome adventures you know
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On August 02 2011 03:51 superjoppe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 03:29 Magenta wrote:
This is serious business boys and girls. Anyone in Stockholm be sure to show up! Kulturhuset på onsdag 14.15.
LOL
HAHAHAHA thats gold
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On August 02 2011 06:46 benjammin wrote:
serious question, assuming people are done trolling: do you feel as though you act and treat people in a gaming space the same way that you would outside of that gaming space? do you use the same kind of language?
space just being loosely defined as the zone of interactions within the game itself, voice chat, text-based chat, etc
No, and I expect the same response from others, as well. It boils down to relative anonymity, in the sense that online spaces are public spaces without being social spaces.
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On August 02 2011 06:59 KimJongChill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:46 benjammin wrote:
serious question, assuming people are done trolling: do you feel as though you act and treat people in a gaming space the same way that you would outside of that gaming space? do you use the same kind of language?
space just being loosely defined as the zone of interactions within the game itself, voice chat, text-based chat, etc No, and I expect the same response from others, as well. It boils down to relative anonymity, in the sense that online spaces are public spaces without being social spaces.
so i guess the question then is either:
we can probably all accept that relative anonymity allows for behavior that otherwise would not happen (see: 4chan). then, what motivates us to make the choices that we do in these anonymous spaces? why would someone choose to call someone "faggot" in this space instead of any other assortment of things?
OR
is there something intrinsic about this gaming space that allows for this kind of behavior? i'd hesitate calling it homophobia or anything like that, but what can be said about the frequency of orientation slurs in gaming culture?
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most people are not gay. most video game characters are not gay. don't see any problem.
plus sexual orientation has nothing to do with video games.
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On August 02 2011 06:44 Aruno wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 06:39 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 06:35 Aruno wrote:On August 02 2011 06:32 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 06:29 Drteeth wrote:On August 02 2011 06:27 BlackFlag wrote:On August 02 2011 05:11 Tevo wrote:
Please don't take this an attack on you or what you're doing, but here goes:
I feel like a lot the gay people nowadays are starting to feel like homosexuality should be integrated into everything. You get gay gamers, gay soccer players, gay hospitality workers and what not. Those damn faggots wanna be a visible part of society too, fuck them!!! Especially that you mention soccer, where being gay is a "death sentence"... there are probably not many more activities where more homophobia exists. Homosexuality is only that much tolerated in society, as long as they aren't seen. Tolerance just gets pretended, it's fake as so much in "our" society. I hope you're being ironic. Because I try to look past the curtain? How many people tell you they are ok with gays but feel disgusted and uneasy if they see two men kiss each other in public? You want to control how people feel? Also, how can you know what they are feeling? You psychic? I have a mouth, and I'm forming words with it. Other people do this too, this process is called talking. You know what that is? Your not talking, Your typing + Show Spoiler +
There's a world outside the internets.
+ Show Spoiler +the name of the jpg is intense
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On August 02 2011 03:42 Bibdy wrote:
I mean, I guess you can cite the recent Bioware games of giving the protagonist gay romance options, but those are exactly the thing I'm talking about. It's just there to make people feel good. It doesn't have any meaningful impact on the story, or the gameplay. It's a shallow plug to grab a little extra audience, while trying to be as insignificant as possible to maintain the core audience.
Isn't that kind of thing actually more insulting?
That is a completely different situation. Why shouldn't there be gay romance options? The rest of the romance options are insignificant as the gay ones. As a whole we all know there would be uproar if there were ONLY gay options.
While I agree to some extent that it would appear people are making an issue out of a non issue and that a lot of the time people are just simply highlighting a issue which wasn't there before, it simply comes down to a matter of perspective. You may not be part of this minority or any for that matter, It is quite different and the amount of hate that gets thrown at LGBT people is horrendous and I would say that the majority of the LGBT will be incredibly friendly and make societies and other communities better than most of those dishing out the insults and hate at them.
If people don't fight for rights then the world would be simply much more 1 dimensional and a little dull and most likely fair bit worse for wear.
As a whole I would like to see a more diverse range of character in all sorts of games. Does it mean I expect a gay guy in every game? No not at all. Do I want all the gay characters to be simply stereotyped, again not really. At the end of the day I think there needs to be more recognition and acceptance over such characters in games and options (such as the gay romance options in Dragon Age) to allow for more interesting scenarios and character development and depth (Mostly in RPGs or Story focused games).
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Well of course they're not going to add homosexual characters in video games themselves. Why? Because that would be taking a stance on something that's potentially controversial (sad but true) and representing the game developer's stance on it, which there's literally no need to do. It would only spark controversy, no majority of people are going to buy a game that they wouldn't otherwise buy because of something like this.
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i think gays are slowly but surely entering their way into most forms of media as they are gaining more and more acceptance in today's society. Correct me if i'm wrong, but cant you make it play out that shepherd in mass effect turns out to be gay?
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Funny thread lol I honestly don't see how a characters sexual preference can effect a game at all. Also not all children's parents would want there kids exposed to this very adult topic in games so I assume that's why its not shown in most games but also because it wouldn't really make a difference in story lines or game play anyways. You could argue the same thing I think for the lack of black characters in games just the same, except that that wouldn't be putting things into kids heads that they wouldn't understand. Gotta admit though if it meant that much to people that are gay or lesbian than rock on it wouldn't bother me a bit, just don't think you can say the same for most video game users parents (who often are the purchasers of games).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.chumpysclipart.com/images/illustrations/thumbnail/1688_picture_of_a_stylistic_image_of_a_woman_with_a_big_grin_holding_a_big_pencil.jpg)
