EPTHere we have leaving exams after HS, which are joke for anyone with a pulse and then most universities have their own exams or they rely on private sector to make one, which actually works quite well because you have multiple shots at it, provided you pay a fee every time and even if you don't make it, it's not uncommon to study something just to pass they year and then try again. Still, our schools aren't all that good worldwide:p I'm studying medicine which is probably one of the more difficult schools and even here if people get kicked out (10-40% in the first year) most just realize that there is stuff to do in the world besides studying or they go and get into some other school.
Suicide in Korea - Page 9
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
Here we have leaving exams after HS, which are joke for anyone with a pulse and then most universities have their own exams or they rely on private sector to make one, which actually works quite well because you have multiple shots at it, provided you pay a fee every time and even if you don't make it, it's not uncommon to study something just to pass they year and then try again. Still, our schools aren't all that good worldwide:p I'm studying medicine which is probably one of the more difficult schools and even here if people get kicked out (10-40% in the first year) most just realize that there is stuff to do in the world besides studying or they go and get into some other school. | ||
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gullberg
Sweden1301 Posts
On May 24 2011 15:43 Popss wrote: I always find these discussion interesting because in Sweden atleast the "prestige" in having a degree lies with the degree itself not the school you took it from. So yeah whenever I read about academic pressure in foreign countries it always feel so uhm foreign to me :S What are you talking about, it's the same in Sweden (and probably in many other countries aswell) just not to the same degree as S.Korea. | ||
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Pleiades
United States472 Posts
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Popss
Sweden176 Posts
On May 24 2011 16:24 gullberg wrote: What are you talking about, it's the same in Sweden (and probably in many other countries aswell) just not to the same degree as S.Korea. Oh please maybe my parents where just to nice to me but in terms of universities it really doesn't matter much which school you went to. | ||
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GG.NoRe
Korea (South)1051 Posts
On May 24 2011 16:47 Pleiades wrote: Never really cared so much about education after high school. I looked at my high school friends who were working their asses off just to get into UC schools with curiousity. Education does teach you to become better in the field you're interested in, but it doesn't teach you to be resourceful. If you know how to be resourceful, then you can pull those people who go into college and make them work for you so you can live a better life. Want to know why wealthy white people get so rich, that's the basic form of it. HAHAHA. I love this post because it demonstrates precisely how Koreans DO NOT think. In a billion koreans, you wont find anyone who'll say this. That more than education or hardwork, its about your ability or resourcefulness. Case in point, look at BW interviews, you'll never see Jaedong or anyone say "well yeah I got creative and I had more ability and skills" Never. They always tell you that their victory is a product of practice and hardwork. At times, even for me, it sounds a bit routine like they have memorized it, but that is an honest truth. They really believe success is in the amount of work they put in, and not in some intangible factors. Im not saying you are wrong, Im just pointing out the clear cultural difference. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On May 24 2011 17:07 GG.NoRe wrote: HAHAHA. I love this post because it demonstrates precisely how Koreans DO NOT think. In a billion koreans, you wont find anyone who'll say this. That more than education or hardwork, its about your ability or resourcefulness. Case in point, look at BW interviews, you'll never see Jaedong or anyone say "well yeah I got creative and I had more ability and skills" Never. They always tell you that their victory is a product of practice and hardwork. At times, even for me, it sounds a bit routine like they have memorized it, but that is an honest truth. They really believe success is in the amount of work they put in, and not in some intangible factors. Im not saying you are wrong, Im just pointing out the clear cultural difference. As a Chinese-American who spent part of my childhood in Taiwan, I can attest that this academic pressure extends to pretty much all Asian countries, including China and Japan. It's quite disturbing and heartbreaking, because since it's the 'norm,' no one seems to be trying to do anything to change the system. Even in Western countries, the 'strict Asian parents' are a stereotype/joke instead of treated as a real social problem that causes serious damage to kids. | ||
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Zedders
Canada450 Posts
There are many that just don't do well in school mainly because the school's techniques for learning and showing how you've learned are completely inadequate for them. I find the only real remedy to this situation is for all teaching industries to re-vamp their entire programs to fit the society of now's students. Our systems are basically stemmed from the past which just aren't as applicable to today's economy and opportunities | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On May 24 2011 16:52 Popss wrote: Oh please maybe my parents where just to nice to me but in terms of universities it really doesn't matter much which school you went to. Yeah in NZ all our (proper) universities are considered pretty much equal. Just depends where you want to live while you study. There are some 'unitec' places that try to pass themselves off as unis but don't do enough actual research to qualify. Even these places aren't considered too bad depending on which subject you want to study. My brother got a degree from a unitec and managed to get CG jobs in England and now with Weta. | ||
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Spekulatius
Germany2413 Posts
These incredible work ethics come with a cost. And I'm not sure they can be kept without the presence of stress and sad events like described in the OP. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On May 24 2011 14:32 VIB wrote: You're confusing the cause and the consequence. The schools are not considered good because it's scarce. They're scarce because they're good. Capitalism thrives on scarcity, private schools all around the world go out of their way to make their school as scarce as they can. It's a very well known problem. The solution isn't complicated, it isn't technical, it's political. If a school board decides to cut profits to expand it's business, it can be done. There's plenty of plausible solutions. Not as much as you think. The best schools are also the ones that take in the best students - even if they are not necessarily the best at imparting knowledge. As a result, they show off the best results, because they have the best raw material. It's a combination of quality and scarcity of acceptance to a large degree. This creates a cycle where the best want to get into school X, and thus school X becomes more exclusive while producing the best graduates, increasing the prestige, etc. Creating more high-quality institutions would work to reduce the degree to which this is important, but that's a very long-term thing. It certainly will never remove it entirely, because the mentality and desire for elitism will remain. | ||
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kuresuti
1393 Posts
On May 24 2011 16:52 Popss wrote: Oh please maybe my parents where just to nice to me but in terms of universities it really doesn't matter much which school you went to. This is true. Most schools seem pretty equal (I don't really have a way to know for sure since I haven't studied at all of them). Some schools which you wouldn't expect to be top of the line can sometimes be better than the big famous ones even. This might have something to do with how easy it is to get into your school of choice, at least in my experience it is. | ||
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krisss
Luxembourg305 Posts
Parents should let their children know that you actually can have a good/happy life without being the best. | ||
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
On May 24 2011 13:28 Shagg wrote: Think the count is even higher in Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate | ||
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
On May 24 2011 09:35 thisisSSK wrote: This is somewhat true if all your motivation is extrinsic. But "happiness" is also almost completely relative, so you can't say that people working hard to achieve a lofty goal isn't a course to reach happiness, because to me and a lot of other people, it is. Haven't you ever worked super hard for something and been happy upon completion? Its the same thing. By the way, I'm pretty sure dentists/doctors don't have to hit 60 to start "doing something." It's just easier if your motivation is extrinsic. If it's not? Introspection. I never meant you shouldn't work hard for something, but to weigh up what will truly make you happiest. Just because something was hard to do doesn't mean you're happy when you've done it. (For about a month when I changed my diet I had really bad constipation and trust me that didn't make me happy all the time.) When you work hard to achieve something, its the achievement at the end that you want, e.g. getting a better paid job. It's the reward, or promise of the reward, that gives you happiness. So you have to weigh up the reward with the cost of working so hard, and I feel like lots of people fall with "working too hard", far too easily. Yes, working hard and achieving something may well improve your overall happiness, (like having a boring job but it allows you to eat), but you really have to think about whether it will. And I'm not sure this is exactly something people have really had to think about in previous centuries, as the choice to eat and pay the rent or not is a pretty easy one. We have more options now. | ||
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
I can see this kind of pressure getting to people in university though. Your life success in Canada is based almost exclusively on your academic success, because most jobs have shifted into high tech and service delivery (and service delivery pays less unless you're extremely skilled like a doctor). If you fail in university there are other opportunities, but basically you're getting much less out of life than you would have if you had completed your education. Hell, most people who complete their education still fall short due to the nature of their degrees. + Show Spoiler + Arts degrees are effectively useless because most people go the teaching route and there are no teaching jobs left. For me, failure at university is not an option, and if I ever had to repeat a term (which I've done already) again or failed out I would definitely be feeling suicidal. My self-worth is almost entirely based on my success at school, so I can see why these Korean students feel so much pressure to do well. So, in university you will have the odd student that kills himself because he can't take it. We had one do it in our school a couple years ago, but that was one. Our school also has a policy that if someone in your class commits suicide everyone passes, resulting in the exam-time joke that everyone hopes someone kills themselves so we all don't fail. The classes themselves are that hard. I would at least wait until after I failed to kill myself though. I see no point in studying so much and then offing myself before giving that exam a shot. But I know that people suffering from severe anxiety or depression do not think rationally in the least. It's just a shame that this happens with such frequency and the culture is so supporting of this. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
Even if you are good student thru out your high school, but one mistake, then you are out, thats alot of pressure. I don't why my country as well as other east asia countries don't adopt the NA system of admission yet. | ||
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
On May 24 2011 22:07 Caphe wrote: I don't why my country as well as other east asia countries don't adopt the NA system of admission yet. Remember that the United States has the SAT, which is basically a summative entrance exam. Many US colleges and universities rely on the score of this test when determining admissions, so the system is still similar. So many good students smoke this exam however, and their grades are all so high, that high quality schools (Ivy League) in the US don't even have to compare academics anymore. All they care about is athletics, extra-curricular activities (and you need many), and whose parents will donate money to the school's coffers. The North American culture overall though is one of laziness, and a great many students do not care about their SAT scores or their overall marks. | ||
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marttorn
Norway5211 Posts
This is so awful, the fact that theres so much academic pressure that it drives students to suicide just because they're not performing perfectly. Kind of heartless, imo. | ||
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marttorn
Norway5211 Posts
On May 24 2011 17:13 Zedders wrote: The fact that schooling plays SUCH a huge role in korea, and other countries is, I find, a really good thing. The problem is that most institutes have absolutely no idea how to teach to the minorities of the students. When I say minorities I mean those with learning disabilities, those that are gifted etc. There are many that just don't do well in school mainly because the school's techniques for learning and showing how you've learned are completely inadequate for them. I find the only real remedy to this situation is for all teaching industries to re-vamp their entire programs to fit the society of now's students. Our systems are basically stemmed from the past which just aren't as applicable to today's economy and opportunities Couldn't agree more, in Norway too, the minority of students (those especially gifted/with disabilities) are being alienated, while the school tries to jam everybody into a tiny box, no matter how fast they learn, how slow etc.. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On May 24 2011 17:11 Ocedic wrote: As a Chinese-American who spent part of my childhood in Taiwan, I can attest that this academic pressure extends to pretty much all Asian countries, including China and Japan. It's quite disturbing and heartbreaking, because since it's the 'norm,' no one seems to be trying to do anything to change the system. Even in Western countries, the 'strict Asian parents' are a stereotype/joke instead of treated as a real social problem that causes serious damage to kids. I don't think it causes serious damage to kids, since hey I didn't suicide yet, but I think it teaches the kids discipline. How many Asian kids do you see going around calling their mother "bitch" compared to those in America? Strict upbringing results in better overall mannerisms of the children. hell, if their ancestors can overcome the strict upbringing why can't they? | ||
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