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I'm not living in the US so you guys might put this off easily (which is ok).
There are benefits and drawbacks in every health care system, we in Europe just have another shitty system (at least we in Germany). But there is a undeniable truth, which is that every person with a serious health issue (and that also includes non-lethal issues that mess up your live or prevent you from living it normally) needs a treatment.
And this truth ends with a fullstop. There are no if's in it. To me there is no argument that could ever be made to counter this statement. And any health care system should fullfil this, even if that means that we need to pay 50% income tax, smoke Cuban cigars all day, and wear oversized sunglasses. Even if the system gets abused as shit. Even if the uncovered people are immigrants. Even if it would destroy the economy, crash the stock exchange and destroys millions of jobs.
So the next time, YOU are wondering why YOU should pay for these lazy and/or uneducated and/or immigrated and/or handicapped and/or ... people's health insurance, just remind yourself, you are talking about their lives.
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On August 25 2010 00:29 EpiCenteR wrote:
Sad story indeed. However, it does not justify stealing other peoples money to fix it.
On August 25 2010 00:29 thrslimde wrote:
But there is a undeniable truth, which is that every person with a serious health issue (and that also includes non-lethal issues that mess up your live or prevent you from living it normally) needs a treatment.
And this truth ends with a fullstop. There are no if's in it. To me there is no argument that could ever be made to counter this statement. And any health care system should fullfil this, even if that means that we need to pay 50% income tax, smoke Cuban cigars all day, and wear oversized sunglasses. Even if the system gets abused as shit. Even if the uncovered people are immigrants. Even if it would destroy the economy, crash the stock exchange and destroys millions of jobs.
Just contrasting the previous two posts. There's a real value issue here. Saying it's "stealing" doesn't convince anyone, and neither does saying "any health care system should fulfill this." This is why I don't think serious reform is coming in this generation; half of the population couldn't give a shit about "fairness" or "justice" when it gets in the way of people's health, and the other half couldn't give a shit if their neighbor curls up and dies when it gets in the way of fairness. You can't really reconcile these two positions easily.
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On August 24 2010 23:27 wishbones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 22:46 Floophead_III wrote:
People shouldn't have to make $8/hour handling toxic waste if they didn't sit around smoking dope for 35 years.
This is America, there is no excuse why anybody ever should have that kind of job at her age.
People like this are not the norm, not average joes, and not upstanding citizens trying to make a living.
And why the hell does she have 6 kids on $8 an hour? Hello, people! Welfare queen!
And the fact that the press covers this makes me even angrier. How do you know her mother wasnt a crackhead, and her father a an abusive husband who didnt abuse both of them before killing himself, and her mother at the age of 10.. I mean c'mon bro people have fucked up shit to deal with not everyone has picture perfect homes with wealthy lifestyles and role models that teach them all this shit, half the people i know today are in their adult stages trying to find out what the fuck is what, I mean we all can talk, but doing and speaking about it are always and will never change from being two totally different things. Maybe thats why she didn't finish school, or maybe she did, but had children, just because abortions exist, don't mean people believe in it. Some people are very old fashioned, once your pregnant you don't kill the child. You go and find whatever work you can to help this child survive, and her home seemed nice, a big house and a basement so she can't be doing that bad aside from US just being selfish on helping its citizens.
But this is now a social issue as to what to do with children of abuse so they don't end up in these situations. This is why harder police intervention and greater punishment for bad parents is a good thing. There's a lot of complexity beyond the basic issue, but the fact of the matter is we have to assume she got there from her own volition since that's the only thing we can do anything about directly, otherwise it's caused by indirect problems.
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On August 24 2010 21:04 Galois wrote:
And for the record, I have no problem with my tax dollars paying for any one of your medical expenses. Why? Because I'm better than you
and anyone who feels differently should be ashamed of themselves and get the fuck out of my way.
hahaha
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On August 25 2010 00:29 thrslimde wrote:
I'm not living in the US so you guys might put this off easily (which is ok).
There are benefits and drawbacks in every health care system, we in Europe just have another shitty system (at least we in Germany). But there is a undeniable truth, which is that every person with a serious health issue (and that also includes non-lethal issues that mess up your live or prevent you from living it normally) needs a treatment.
And this truth ends with a fullstop. There are no if's in it. To me there is no argument that could ever be made to counter this statement. And any health care system should fullfil this, even if that means that we need to pay 50% income tax, smoke Cuban cigars all day, and wear oversized sunglasses. Even if the system gets abused as shit. Even if the uncovered people are immigrants. Even if it would destroy the economy, crash the stock exchange and destroys millions of jobs.
So the next time, YOU are wondering why YOU should pay for these lazy and/or uneducated and/or immigrated and/or handicapped and/or ... people's health insurance, just remind yourself, you are talking about their lives.
high five!
What some people write here scares the shit out of me... Egoistic dumbfucks.
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On August 24 2010 22:46 Floophead_III wrote:
People shouldn't have to make $8/hour handling toxic waste if they didn't sit around smoking dope for 35 years.
This is America, there is no excuse why anybody ever should have that kind of job at her age.
People like this are not the norm, not average joes, and not upstanding citizens trying to make a living.
And why the hell does she have 6 kids on $8 an hour? Hello, people! Welfare queen!
And the fact that the press covers this makes me even angrier.
????
You cant find good paying jobs nowadays wtf are you talking about.
I know people who work 40+ hours a week in a factory that make $10 an hour. There are over 3000 applications at this place.
Jobs dont pay as much as they once did ontop of healthcare costs going up.
Its fucked up.
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As said before by others, I fail to understand why my tax dollars should pay for someone who's deciding to work at a toxic care facility and smokes regularly. I don't think she deserves a penny of my money. Maybe she shouldn't be smoking.
I don't want a fucking penny of my money going to treat any smoker that has lung cancer. Morons shouldn't have been smoking, I don't care what situation they got themselves into, whether they have 6 children and are on minimum wage (which would also be completely their fault).
Same thing with fatasses who get heart attacks. Maybe you shouldn't have pigged out so much. If you got a heart attack because of YOUR lifestyle, then YOU should pay the money to have your own life saved, not me.
Of course it's hard to figure out what constitutes what, and how much to charge. This is why a privatized system where smokers have to pay more is better.
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most comments from us citizens in this thread scare the shit out of me too.
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I won't really comment on her smoking habit, all I can say is here (canada) at least they tax the living hell out of cigarettes that it might not cover the extra cost to the medical system if a person goes sick, at least it helps.
I believe however in equal opportunity, but I mean how many people have to die before the skeptics stop saying a change isn't needed? I don't even LIVE in the states, and I have a friend who is in one of these sad situations.
Friend of mine has a heart problem, college student, good kid, lives in near constant chest pain since half the time he can't afford his heart meds so he can pay for food and rent. His condition will likely lock him out of any reasonable kind of health insurance for the rest of his life. Critics of obama attempt to change things would basically have you believe: Land of equal opportunity, cept if you are sick.
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On August 25 2010 00:29 thrslimde wrote:But there is a undeniable truth, which is that every person with a serious health issue (and that also includes non-lethal issues that mess up your live or prevent you from living it normally) needs a treatment.
I also NEED housing, food, heating, water, electricity, internet access, entertainment and quite a lot of things which if I don't have, can mess up my life greatly. You gonna pay for that? Hey, it's only a few thousand dollars a month! No? Thought so.
It's totally unbelievable and even disgusting to me that there still are people who deeply refuse welfare reform. You big meanies.
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On August 25 2010 01:10 FabledIntegral wrote:
I fail to understand why my tax dollars should pay for someone who's deciding to work at a toxic care facility and smokes regularly.
Would you care to go into detail how a poor person with no chance of higher education and no contacts waits around for a year or so until they can land a "good" job as to opposed to taking the first thing available?
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fun fact:
Smokers produce less costs to health insurances/systems than non-smokers.
Why?
They die early.
You actually should thank everyone that smokes.
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Somehow I am not surprised a forum that primarily caters to people with enough time to play a lot of Starcraft has a significant amount of people who lead sheltered lives divorced from reality.
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On August 25 2010 01:23 Furycrab wrote:
I won't really comment on her smoking habit, all I can say is here (canada) at least they tax the living hell out of cigarettes that it might not cover the extra cost to the medical system if a person goes sick, at least it helps.
I believe however in equal opportunity, but I mean how many people have to die before the skeptics stop saying a change isn't needed? I don't even LIVE in the states, and I have a friend who is in one of these sad situations.
Friend of mine has a heart problem, college student, good kid, lives in near constant chest pain since half the time he can't afford his heart meds so he can pay for food and rent. His condition will likely lock him out of any reasonable kind of health insurance for the rest of his life. Critics of obama attempt to change things would basically have you believe: Land of equal opportunity, cept if you are sick.
So I have to pay for him, despite me also struggling financially? That's cool. It's a sad thing that his life is like that, but I don't give a damn about helping him.
Let me ask you this - why don't you give your money to the starving children in Africa? Who could have all their daily nutrients for a week off whatever it is (a few quarters?). Only a little bit of your money, right? Are you giving a small portion of every single paycheck to your friend to help him afford the meds? If you're not, you better not expect me to. I don't even know him.
I don't have the best vision. Are you going to help me pay for my contacts/glasses?
I'm not stopping your friend from doing anything. He has an equal opportunity to do whatever he wants. That's what opportunity is. What you're asking is for everyone else to pitch in to push him forward, which is completely different from opportunity.
It's up to his parents to raise him and decide whether or not to insure him and pay for his meds. If they can't afford it then it's the fault of his parents, and it's a family matter, not a matter to me. There's already plenty of plans and welfare for those in financial need, and if he really is in dire financial need, he's already getting thousands in financial aid, and I have zero pity for him. If he knew he had this condition he should have worked more during high school (you can get a job as early as 14, I had my first job I took the bus 45 minutes away at 15) to save up money. Maybe ride a motorcycle instead of drive a car, or take public transit.
So if you care that much for him, how about you pay for it yourself.
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On August 25 2010 01:10 FabledIntegral wrote:
As said before by others, I fail to understand why my tax dollars should pay for someone who's deciding to work at a toxic care facility and smokes regularly. I don't think she deserves a penny of my money. Maybe she shouldn't be smoking.
Could you define "deciding?" Because I don't think most people would agree that she is deciding to work at a facility handling toxic waste. I certainly don't. If you're presented with a choice between working somewhere and being homeless, I don't think your choice is much of a decision.
Why shouldn't our tax dollars pay for covering the health of people working dangerous jobs? The existence of those jobs is an externality of our lifestyles. Toxic waste exists as a byproduct of manufacturing goods and providing services that everyone wants.
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On August 25 2010 01:34 catamorphist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 01:10 FabledIntegral wrote:
As said before by others, I fail to understand why my tax dollars should pay for someone who's deciding to work at a toxic care facility and smokes regularly. I don't think she deserves a penny of my money. Maybe she shouldn't be smoking. Could you define "deciding?" Because I don't think most people would agree that she is deciding to work at a facility handling toxic waste. I certainly don't. If you're presented with a choice between working somewhere and being homeless, I don't think your choice is much of a decision.
Working at said facility for 23 years instead of seeking better employment all that time pretty much exhausts the definition of "deciding". But then again, it has already been deduced she isn't the brightest of the bunch.
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On August 24 2010 22:59 Galois wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 22:38 TanGeng wrote:On August 24 2010 22:31 Galois wrote:
Lexpar, I want to reach through my monitor and punch your stupid bitch ass in the face. You sir are one righteous dude. So glad to know that people like you are "better" than everyone else in this country. You're god damned right I am. For God's sake, a woman had to fucking shoot herself in order to get medical attention. It is a rare kind of person who could push themselves that far for help. Hell, I doubt that I could ever push myself to put myself through her pain. But the fact that a human being — an AMERICAN — arrived at the conclusion that they had to fucking shoot themselves for a chance of having at least an ounce of medical attention should bring absolute and utmost feelings of shame to every single man, woman, and child who hears her story. and I say that anyone who does not feel this way is a sinner!
Keep your religious bigotry out of this. Im currently in a spot similar to hers, while I have health insurance its just bare bones crap and i have a medical condition on my feet that cracks and eats at my skin literally making it feel like Im walking on pin cushions every day of my live. I have to constantly wrap my feet up in make shift bandages because regular bandages damage my feet too much. Ive been to several doctors and even the "best specialist in my region" but none of them had anything that worked past a 2 week period and infact a few of them made it worse. However Im at the end of my coverage limit meaning that the insurance won't pay for me to see any other specialists then the ones I've already seen. So Im basically living just in constant pain all day long working a job that requires me to stand on my feet for about 95% of the time im there.
Im not willing to light my feet on fire or some other ignorant thing that could of POTIENTALY FUCK ME UP FOR LIFE, just so I can get a sob story and someone can foot my bill. This is my problem, not anyone elses, and I even make less then she does at $7.25 an hour at a sub shop trying to support school and a daughter. Luckily my parents help out by buying me the bare bones so at least I've got that, but while I feel sympathy for this woman, we can't tolerate this kind of behavior. We as a society can't say that just because you are trying to kill yourself to get medical attention thats ok. Its not, think about how much potientally SADDENING this story would be if the woman had actually killed herself because she hit an artery and bled to death. Then she'd be leaving all her kids behind and from the article it doesn't seem like the fathers really around so they'd all go to aunts/uncles/orphange.
Also the jobs/insurance thing aside, while I feel that we should take care of her, what about medicaid or medicare...which ever one is the one that is like a mini insurance thing? Why haven't she been able to get some coverage through that to at least get her arm checked out to see what's happening?
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On August 25 2010 01:10 FabledIntegral wrote:
As said before by others, I fail to understand why my tax dollars should pay for someone who's deciding to work at a toxic care facility and smokes regularly. I don't think she deserves a penny of my money. Maybe she shouldn't be smoking.
I don't want a fucking penny of my money going to treat any smoker that has lung cancer. Morons shouldn't have been smoking, I don't care what situation they got themselves into, whether they have 6 children and are on minimum wage (which would also be completely their fault).
Same thing with fatasses who get heart attacks. Maybe you shouldn't have pigged out so much. If you got a heart attack because of YOUR lifestyle, then YOU should pay the money to have your own life saved, not me.
Of course it's hard to figure out what constitutes what, and how much to charge. This is why a privatized system where smokers have to pay more is better.
I pity you because one day you may understand why this kind of thinking is wrong.
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On August 25 2010 01:38 Frigo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 01:34 catamorphist wrote:On August 25 2010 01:10 FabledIntegral wrote:
As said before by others, I fail to understand why my tax dollars should pay for someone who's deciding to work at a toxic care facility and smokes regularly. I don't think she deserves a penny of my money. Maybe she shouldn't be smoking. Could you define "deciding?" Because I don't think most people would agree that she is deciding to work at a facility handling toxic waste. I certainly don't. If you're presented with a choice between working somewhere and being homeless, I don't think your choice is much of a decision. Working at said facility for 23 years instead of seeking better employment all that time pretty much exhausts the definition of "deciding". But then again, it has already been deduced she isn't the brightest of the bunch.
I don't know if you're reading different excerpts, but nowhere did I get the impression that she wasn't seeking better employment. Why wouldn't she? I don't think that a lot of people set out in life hoping to work for $8/hour on an assembly line with no benefits.
What's it matter, though? If she wasn't working that job, someone else would; there's work in the world that needs doing, and plenty of labor willing to do it if it's their only option on the table. Either way, we've got someone who needs expensive health insurance.
P.S. What is this "all her kids" thing that keeps cropping up? I really think other people are reading something I'm not, because it doesn't mention children anywhere.
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On August 25 2010 01:34 catamorphist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 01:10 FabledIntegral wrote:
As said before by others, I fail to understand why my tax dollars should pay for someone who's deciding to work at a toxic care facility and smokes regularly. I don't think she deserves a penny of my money. Maybe she shouldn't be smoking. Could you define "deciding?" Because I don't think most people would agree that she is deciding to work at a facility handling toxic waste. I certainly don't. If you're presented with a choice between working somewhere and being homeless, I don't think your choice is much of a decision. Why shouldn't our tax dollars pay for covering the health of people working dangerous jobs? The existence of those jobs is an externality of our lifestyles. Toxic waste exists as a byproduct of manufacturing goods and providing services that everyone wants.
Because it's their choice to take such a job in the first place. If they don't feel $8/hr is worth the risk, then they shouldn't take the risk. They don't have to take the job. By taking the $8/hr risky job, they are deciding to take the job. No one is putting a gun to her head and forcing her to take it. It's her decision.
Whether or not you think she might be homeless otherwise is irrelevant. There is unemployment insurance for the very reason of giving people MONTHS to find a job (literally, they are getting insurance to not take a job but instead LOOK for a job that suits them) to supplement their income and keep them going. That is one of the forms of welfare that I approve of, because not only does unemployment insurance allow people to better find jobs to suit their specialty, but studies suggest it actually improves the economy as a whole (taxes usually equate to deadweight loss).
There's no such thing as "not having a decision." Whatever poor decisions in her life that ended up landing her in this predicament isn't my fault. I have a desk job that I make $10.20/hr and I've been employed at 4 different companies in the last 5 years. You have to put yourself out there is all. I bet she partied in her early years, never built up a resume, and ended up in this situation. ZEROOO sympathy for this woman. I have much more for people born into the situation. The economy prior to the recession was BOOMING, I assure you she could have found a job nearly anywhere. I can't think of a single retail place that WASN'T hiring in 2006.
PS. She smokes. She obviously has some extra income that she could easily cut if she was that desperate. I do not take "being addicted" as a valid reason. Once again, not my fault she picked up the habit and her insurance rates increased. If she wants health insurance, how about she stops smoking to
1. decrease her rates
2. save the income from cigarettes to put forth to purchasing health insurance
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EPT
