EPTChina's National Day Military Parade - Page 5
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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omninmo
2349 Posts
I slept thought the parade due to being called on by a young girl late last night. We just woke up and were greeted with a glorious sun-filled afternoon accompanied by a slight breeze from the east. Per usual, I checked TL. Glad to a see a thread dealing with China without too much ignorance save the usual trollz. I'm going to go eat a four course french brunch soon with eggs, cold cuts, fresh fruit, coffee etc. Then I will go rehearse with my rock-n-roll band at a practice space near what was once the tallest structure in China-,The Drum Tower 鼓楼, which has been around for about 800 years. For dinner I willenjoy authentic mexican tacos nearby. Authentic because the chef is from Mexico. Later, I will probably watch the proceedings of the parade on chinese site youku.com (similar to youtube but with a plethora of feature films and tv shows). | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
Ill add to this in saying the reason we dont learn much about china is because quite honestly the perception whether right or wrong is that they werent that important in the grand scheme of things. They were important in a sense that they had trade and were a stable power for an incredibly long time......but their sphere of influence just wasnt that big at least in the western world, probably because they kept to themselves militarily(afaik). Thats more of what I was getting at when I was saying that china was never the center of the world. This is coming from a "Western" viewpoint obviously. Why are you so confident when you admit you never learned anything about this? China invented paper, gunpowder, the compass. Without the compass there never would have been any globalization. When Europe and China began to trade in the 17th cent. China only exported (similar to today) while silver flowed in. European goods that reached China were just curiosities. Pepper from China was the most sought after and expensive good in the world along with ceramics. Ceramics "changed the standards of aesthetics in Europe" (Vermeer's Hat) and European nations fought over trade with China. China didn't give a shit about them yet through this one sided trade the East Asian Company among others that pioneered significant international trade were created. Even philosophical ideas like Indra's Net were studied by literati like Voltaire who thought that China was a utopia of Sage-King rulers. The trade was so one sided that through until the mid 19th century that Britain literally initiated war with China to create unfair treaties so they wouldn't fall victim to their own greed for Chinese goods. Chinese art, clothes, and architecture became signs of status among the European upper class. China made tea popular in Britain ffs. Many many scholars attribute the beginnings of modernization to China. I can provide sources if you want. | ||
Empyrean
17054 Posts
On October 01 2009 14:15 Xxio wrote: Why are you so confident when you admit you never learned anything about this? China invented paper, gunpowder, the compass. Without the compass there never would have been any globalization. When Europe and China began to trade in the 17th cent. China only exported (similar to today) while silver flowed in. European goods that reached China were just curiosities. Pepper from China was the most sought after and expensive good in the world along with ceramics. Ceramics "changed the standards of aesthetics in Europe" (Vermeer's Hat) and European nations fought over trade with China. China didn't give a shit about them yet through this one sided trade the East Asian Company among others that pioneered significant international trade were created. Even philosophical ideas like Indra's Net were studied by literati like Voltaire who thought that China was a utopia of Sage-King rulers. The trade was so one sided that through until the mid 19th century that Britain literally initiated war with China to create unfair treaties so they wouldn't fall victim to their own greed for Chinese goods. Chinese art, clothes, and architecture became signs of status among the European upper class. China made tea popular in Britain ffs. Many many scholars attribute the beginnings of modernization to China. I can provide sources if you want. While China may have been powerful and prosperous, that doesn't mean that it was the center of the world. For much of the time period we're talking about (I'm assuming what, 800-1800s or so?), the Arabian empires were the centers of trade, where global powers would converge and do business. Even if they weren't as technologically advanced or powerful as China was (also debatable here), they were literally at the "center" of the world, where everyone came to conduct business, trade, and spread knowledge. EDIT: I actually went to high school in the US, and we learned quite a deal about Chinese history. Just responding to whomever said that US schools don't teach Chinese history. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On October 01 2009 13:33 Polyphasic wrote: did anyone notice the Tibet float that said "we are continuing to peacefully develop the economy in Tibet". lol Makes me kinda depressed actually. | ||
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omninmo
2349 Posts
On October 01 2009 14:15 Xxio wrote: Why are you so confident when you admit you never learned anything about this? China invented paper, gunpowder, the compass. Without the compass there never would have been any globalization. When Europe and China began to trade in the 17th cent. China only exported (similar to today) while silver flowed in. European goods that reached China were just curiosities. Pepper from China was the most sought after and expensive good in the world along with ceramics. Ceramics "changed the standards of aesthetics in Europe" (Vermeer's Hat) and European nations fought over trade with China. China didn't give a shit about them yet through this one sided trade the East Asian Company among others that pioneered significant international trade were created. Even philosophical ideas like Indra's Net were studied by literati like Voltaire who thought that China was a utopia of Sage-King rulers. The trade was so one sided that through until the mid 19th century that Britain literally initiated war with China to create unfair treaties so they wouldn't fall victim to their own greed for Chinese goods. Chinese art, clothes, and architecture became signs of status among the European upper class. China made tea popular in Britain ffs. Many many scholars attribute the beginnings of modernization to China. I can provide sources if you want. Those who know that Chinese culture has never been dwarfed by any Ameri/European nation- only it's military has- also know that having a strong military is required of imperial nations lacking in high culture. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
But who really cares about all this debate? This thread isn't a pissing contest about which civilization is/was/will be the "center of the world" or best ever civilization. Practically all major ones have contributed to the world today and will continue to do so. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On October 01 2009 14:20 Empyrean wrote: While China may have been powerful and prosperous, that doesn't mean that it was the center of the world. For much of the time period we're talking about (I'm assuming what, 800-1800s or so?), the Arabian empires were the centers of trade, where global powers would converge and do business. Even if they weren't as technologically advanced or powerful as China was (also debatable here), they were literally at the "center" of the world, where everyone came to conduct business, trade, and spread knowledge. EDIT: I actually went to high school in the US, and we learned quite a deal about Chinese history. Just responding to whomever said that US schools don't teach Chinese history. A lot of things are revolved around china nowadays, as america owe china billions of dollars. And I go to high school in US, in my senior year, taking gov/econ and trust me, you learn shit about China. All you learn is that communism takes over and how shitty mao was at running a country. You arn't taught that americans/europeans were dirty mother fuckers who took advantage of disorganized china. Here are the history classes that I learned in high school. World History - Mainly focuses on europe and china is mentioned during imperialism when european and americans are fucking china over because they look down on anybody but white American History - Talk about china during the red scare. All I learned was some guy wanted to the nuke china during the korean war because he looked down on anybody but white Government/Econ - Talk about how us owes china billions of dollar. | ||
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omninmo
2349 Posts
On October 01 2009 14:30 Slaughter wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hmm most people in the US don't learn that much about Chinese history but thats because its never a required course but most high schools have classes where you can learn about it and every university has courses where you can learn about it. Hell I have a friend who majored in Chinese and Chinese history and is currently living in Taiwan. But who really cares about all this debate? This thread isn't a pissing contest about which civilization is/was/will be the "center of the world" or best ever civilization. Practically all major ones have contributed to the world today and will continue to do so. Sure, but China never claimed to be "center of the world". This is a strawman that insecure occidentals ascribe to it. 中国 means simply "the central kingdom". When this appellation was given, the kingdom ruling Asia after centuries of stratification and war-lording was, in fact, in the central power was also located in the center of the continent and at that time the continent was their world. (There is also the idea that the center is the most harmonious point of a circle...but that is another topic). They knew about the foreign lands (and there is even evidence that Chinese vessels discovered the Americas before the Europeans) but had to interest in conquest, colonies, or any other imperialist notions. "The Central Kingdom" was a name used before the Imperialists showed up asking for "trade".. At that time China wasn't buying anything from Europeans. They were just exporting and raking in this curious metal called silver. The situation hasn't really changed. China still holds an astounding sum of Western debts and is the center of their own world. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
This is from 1911-1949. This is from 1949-1976. Edit: There's a 3rd one about the period after 1976 that's pretty good. I think it's called Born under the Red Flag. | ||
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Empyrean
17054 Posts
On October 01 2009 14:35 MuffinDude wrote: Lol, my dad went back to china just to watch it. A lot of things are revolved around china nowadays, as america owe china billions of dollars. And I go to high school in US, in my senior year, taking gov/econ and trust me, you learn shit about China. All you learn is that communism takes over and how shitty mao was at running a country. You arn't taught that americans/europeans were dirty mother fuckers who took advantage of disorganized china. First, I wasn't even talking about the modern era. And if we were to, I'd argue that there isn't a single center, as economies are so interconnected these days that it'd just be foolish to argue that one country is the center of the world. Just because China holds hundreds of billions of dollars of U.S. debt doesn't make it any more important than any other country; pretty much the entire global economy is so interdependent that the removal of any one node would collapse much of the current system. By that notion, China being a significant trade partner with the U.S. doesn't grant that much more clout than, say, the E.U. besides increased trade volume. As for your high school, you must have not been lucky enough to attend one with decent history classes. In our world history class we learned all about American, European, and Japanese imperialism at China's loss and negotiations such as the Unequal Treaties, Opium Wars, and other such measures taken against a pathetically weak Qing China. As for "classical" China, we also covered the various rises and falls of different Chinese dynasties, and its relations with other powers such as caliphate Arabia, smaller Asiatic empires, and Europe. We also learned about Mao's numerous failures (Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward) that did show that yes, there were instances in which he sucked at running a country. We also learned about Deng Xiaoping's subsequent westernization and modernization of China's industry and economy and led to its current success. | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
On October 01 2009 14:35 MuffinDude wrote: And I go to high school in US, in my senior year, taking gov/econ and trust me, you learn shit about China. All you learn is that communism takes over and how shitty mao was at running a country. You arn't taught that americans/europeans were dirty mother fuckers who took advantage of disorganized china. Here are the history classes that I learned in high school. World History - Mainly focuses on europe and china is mentioned during imperialism when european and americans are fucking china over because they look down on anybody but white American History - Talk about china during the red scare. All I learned was some guy wanted to the nuke china during the korean war because he looked down on anybody but white Government/Econ - Talk about how us owes china billions of dollar. Sounds like you really are taking your education seriously. "All I learned was...", with a lead-in like this, any argument you have to offer is completely defunct - there is much more to the story than that. Get off your high-horse and stop trying to argue that China is this pure, even handed state which the rest of the evil world is trying to corrupt. All countries have had their problems, all have made their contributions and basically every major power, at some point has taken advantage of another country. Its the way humanity has acted for centuries. Also watch you language. Im a european and I do not like having my heritage stamped upon, as well as incorrectly portrayed by someone who clearly has not bothered to listen in class. Learn some manners, and treat everyone in the world with the respect and courtesy they deserve. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10871 Posts
Also watch you language. Im a european and I do not like having my heritage stamped upon, as well as incorrectly portrayed by someone who clearly has not bothered to listen in class. Learn some manners, and treat everyone in the world with the respect and courtesy they deserve. So you don't like truth? Everyone, that could, did it, which doesn't makes it any better. | ||
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Masamune
Canada3401 Posts
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
![[image loading]](http://atmoz.org/img/world-map1.gif) | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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psion0011
Canada720 Posts
On October 01 2009 15:26 Disregard wrote: Anyone here from Southern China (Excluding Hong Kong and Macau)? Hunan motherfuckers whoo. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11557 Posts
On October 01 2009 15:05 Masamune wrote: Where is Moltke? ^--- also @ jfazz... lol European countries have a vivid history of fucking colonies and other countries over. Lets see, Vietnam, Somalia and most of Africa, China... hm..? | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
All countries have had their problems, all have made their contributions and basically every major power, at some point has taken advantage of another country. Its the way humanity has acted for centuries. Actually, it looks like I said exactly what you are saying... | ||
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