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On October 03 2009 17:12 king_tyris wrote:
I read this on another website and lol'd
Dear Chinese who posted here,
On behalf of all Americans who post here with their vague notions of cultural insight, I must apologise if we have offended you. Our origins date back a mere 500 years when the British decided to expand into America. So compared to China, we are still a relatively young, ignorant culture. We have traded in slaves, made war with ourselves, freed our slaves and gave them equal rights, opened the flood gates for immigrants from Europe, made war with other countries under false pretences, and now, although we are free to speak, no matter how shallow our thoughts, we have struggled with our national identity and have still to grasp this concept of higher culture because mostly we are concerned with Hollywood and fast food for our education and nutrition, respectively, so this is why many of us openly criticise China - and anyone else for that matter; because it's our right, it's how our movies educate us, and our food makes us impulsive. So please don't be offended, because as you can see - and as as most of you already know - we are not perfect either. In fact, as a more 'enlightened American', I wish I was Chinese. I am proud of you China.
I love when people resort to this "US has no history bullshit" We're a 200 year old nation only by definitions of formation of government. China is only a 60 year old history by definition of government. We have the culture of all our immigrants and yes, that includes Chinese as well. If your culture consists of only Hollywood and fast food, I feel sorry for you. America has a ton of choices when it comes to culture. Get out of your suburbs for a little bit and go see real diversity in the coastal cities.
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king_tyris it was over, GJ on being a 5 post troll trying to stir shit up again.
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On October 03 2009 11:01 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2009 10:57 jfazz wrote:On October 03 2009 10:31 MuffinDude wrote:
First of all, white people are racist. You can't deny that fact. Yeah, and you're not a racist? Please. I think you greatly underestimate what the West has given China for China's own benefit. Good and bad flows both ways in the modern world. Correction: white people are the most racist race in the modern world. I only bash on other races if they bash on mine, but if you think I'm racist, sure think that way.
Okay... no. How do you even make that statement that one race is "the most racist race in the modern world." if you cant even quantify which race is the most racist? You're just spewing shit out that you think is right based on your personal experience, which is probably extremely limited. I guarantee you that you'll see just as much racism in the deep south as in some parts of japan and china. I'm freaking chinese and I see more racism when I eat dinner with my grandparents. We'll be walking down the street and my grandpa will be like "BE CAREFUL OF THE MEXICAN. HE'LL STEAL YOUR MONEY GODDAMN MEXICANS". Just accept that its human nature and stop being such a nationalistic dick.
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goddamn, this thread's going in the crappers with know-nothings arguing over misinformation.
On October 03 2009 11:01 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2009 10:57 jfazz wrote:On October 03 2009 10:31 MuffinDude wrote:
First of all, white people are racist. You can't deny that fact. Yeah, and you're not a racist? Please. I think you greatly underestimate what the West has given China for China's own benefit. Good and bad flows both ways in the modern world. Correction: white people are the most racist race in the modern world. I only bash on other races if they bash on mine, but if you think I'm racist, sure think that way.
Wrong. If you want to argue this you gotta make clearer distinctions.
Anybody can be discriminatory. Caucasians, Asians, Africans, Hispanic, etc. etc. It's social. What you just said is discriminating. Historically even Caucasians discriminated against other Caucasians.
But racism is more than social. It's also economic and socio-economic. That's what the biggest claim of racism comes in. Ex: Caucasians control the critical industries and have the power of framing: voluntarily or involuntarily spreading discriminating thoughts and ideas through mass media, which then affect people on a personal level. It happens. People with no first-hand experience with people that are different from themselves rely on media to frame their mindset.
Civil rights have advanced to a degree where it's no longer okay to be a racist directly, in the open. But indirectly it's still going on. For sure. Should you incriminate ALL Caucasions? No. That'd be discrimination. But realize the "Caucasian mystigue" definitely comes at the cost of others, some less so and some more so.
Solution? It takes time. US has come a long way in the past 40 years. It'll be a whole another world in another 40. You may not be able to shake the stigma of racism, but your children and their children can.
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On October 04 2009 02:54 Slaughter wrote:
king_tyris it was over, GJ on being a 5 post troll trying to stir shit up again.
meh it was 7 am where i am and i had nothing better to do not that i was trying to 'stir shit up' just thought it relevant
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On October 04 2009 02:46 Railz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2009 17:12 king_tyris wrote:
I read this on another website and lol'd
Dear Chinese who posted here,
On behalf of all Americans who post here with their vague notions of cultural insight, I must apologise if we have offended you. Our origins date back a mere 500 years when the British decided to expand into America. So compared to China, we are still a relatively young, ignorant culture. We have traded in slaves, made war with ourselves, freed our slaves and gave them equal rights, opened the flood gates for immigrants from Europe, made war with other countries under false pretences, and now, although we are free to speak, no matter how shallow our thoughts, we have struggled with our national identity and have still to grasp this concept of higher culture because mostly we are concerned with Hollywood and fast food for our education and nutrition, respectively, so this is why many of us openly criticise China - and anyone else for that matter; because it's our right, it's how our movies educate us, and our food makes us impulsive. So please don't be offended, because as you can see - and as as most of you already know - we are not perfect either. In fact, as a more 'enlightened American', I wish I was Chinese. I am proud of you China. I love when people resort to this "US has no history bullshit" We're a 200 year old nation only by definitions of formation of government. China is only a 60 year old history by definition of government. We have the culture of all our immigrants and yes, that includes Chinese as well. If your culture consists of only Hollywood and fast food, I feel sorry for you. America has a ton of choices when it comes to culture. Get out of your suburbs for a little bit and go see real diversity in the coastal cities.
What makes America unique, i.e. the systems of governance, is indeed just a few hundred years old. You may not like him being part-apologist/part-facts/part-sarcasm but you can't deny that.
Culture-wise America is a conglomerate of many many different cultures, including Chinese. Any Americanized Chinese food you can think of are Make In America (tm). By your argument US is older only cus its immigrant cultures are older. That doesn't work.
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On October 04 2009 12:26 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2009 02:46 Railz wrote:On October 03 2009 17:12 king_tyris wrote:
I read this on another website and lol'd
Dear Chinese who posted here,
On behalf of all Americans who post here with their vague notions of cultural insight, I must apologise if we have offended you. Our origins date back a mere 500 years when the British decided to expand into America. So compared to China, we are still a relatively young, ignorant culture. We have traded in slaves, made war with ourselves, freed our slaves and gave them equal rights, opened the flood gates for immigrants from Europe, made war with other countries under false pretences, and now, although we are free to speak, no matter how shallow our thoughts, we have struggled with our national identity and have still to grasp this concept of higher culture because mostly we are concerned with Hollywood and fast food for our education and nutrition, respectively, so this is why many of us openly criticise China - and anyone else for that matter; because it's our right, it's how our movies educate us, and our food makes us impulsive. So please don't be offended, because as you can see - and as as most of you already know - we are not perfect either. In fact, as a more 'enlightened American', I wish I was Chinese. I am proud of you China. I love when people resort to this "US has no history bullshit" We're a 200 year old nation only by definitions of formation of government. China is only a 60 year old history by definition of government. We have the culture of all our immigrants and yes, that includes Chinese as well. If your culture consists of only Hollywood and fast food, I feel sorry for you. America has a ton of choices when it comes to culture. Get out of your suburbs for a little bit and go see real diversity in the coastal cities. What makes America unique, i.e. the systems of governance, is indeed just a few hundred years old. You may not like him being part-apologist/part-facts/part-sarcasm but you can't deny that. Culture-wise America is a conglomerate of many many different cultures, including Chinese. Any Americanized Chinese food you can think of are Make In America (tm). By your argument US is older only cus its immigrant cultures are older. That doesn't work.
I wasn't trying to argue America being an older country based solely on the shoulders of its immigrants. I was only trying to point out that America isn't a 'baby' country as some love to point out. It is an experiment trying to blend the best of the cultures thrown into the melting pot.
All I offered were 2 different ways to try and determine an age of a nation; either formation of its government or by its majority culture. America doesn't have just one so people love to just judge it by pointing at Hollywood and fast food which is simply an easy way out of an argument. I have Jewish grandparents - you walk into their house an you experience a thousand years of culture, yet just because it was born in Jerusalem means that my grandparents can't claim it as an old culture?
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That's an interesting point. I'd say that your grandparents' culture are outside of the mainstream.
Walking into their house is one thing, but I'm sure you'd refuse to dress like the older generation Jewish in public, maybe they don't even do it. That's what assimilation is - it stigmatizes disfavored identity to conform to the mainstream, and we comply as a form of necessity of social life because all of us are outside the mainstream in some ways. This behavior is called "Covering," to ensure that your origin would not be held against you. Famous examples: Ramon Estevez covered when he became Martin Sheen, Krishna Bhanji covered when he became Ben Kingsley, and various other subtler cases, etc. Everybody does it.
The melting pot theory also often called "Anglo-conformity." A more modern analogy is probably the Salad Bowl, where cultural groups are separate and maintain their traditions and institutions but individual members nevertheless have assimilated to various degrees.
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On October 05 2009 01:56 .risingdragoon wrote:
That's an interesting point. I'd say that your grandparents' culture are outside of the mainstream.
Walking into their house is one thing, but I'm sure you'd refuse to dress like the older generation Jewish in public, maybe they don't even do it. That's what assimilation is - it stigmatizes disfavored identity to conform to the mainstream, and we comply as a form of necessity of social life because all of us are outside the mainstream in some ways. This behavior is called "Covering." Famous examples: Ramon Estevez covered when he became Martin Sheen, Krishna Bhanji covered when he became Ben Kingsley, and various other subtler cases, etc.
The melting pot theory also often called "Anglo-conformity." A more modern analogy is probably the Salad Bowl, where cultural groups are separate and maintain their traditions and institutions but individual members nevertheless have assimilated to various degrees.
Sure, I can understand that tradition is becoming less apparent in a more modern America, but it should be said that culture should evolve to fit modern society, not society having to fit older traditions - that is the culture of progressiveness, something that China is starting to notice in its Economic Free Zones.
It really depends on what area of America you choose to live in to define Anglo-Conformity. SoCal is obviously not Anglo-Conformity, neither is NYC. I personally (and this is probably a huge err on my part but alas) believe that the North East Corridor is really the essence of America. It doesn't have anything to do with its form of politics, but its logical attitude towers social behaviors.
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On October 04 2009 02:46 Railz wrote:
I love when people resort to this "US has no history bullshit" We're a 200 year old nation only by definitions of formation of government. China is only a 60 year old history by definition of government.
That's a pretty extreme and biased interpretation of the word "nation" ... Perhaps a venture in it's definition will alter your perception?
PS. Jfazz, that was extremely well said of you; unfortunately, it was drowned and surrounded by drivel such as Valentine/Slaughter's tagteam "lolwut?" response.
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I'm not sure what you're advocating exactly... Regional culture is one thing, but we often don't participate in just one cultural sphere.
Again the definition of "covering" is to mute, or conceal those aspects of our identities that are socially stigmatized (i.e. racial identities, sexual orientation, gender roles, etc.) in order to conform. The language of it maybe new but the behavior is certain nothing new to anyone living in the US.
Watch the movie "The Human Stain" or "Gattaca" for the price a person pays in order to cover in other eras.
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I'm Chinese and imo China is capitalism not communism =P
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On October 05 2009 03:07 .risingdragoon wrote:
I'm not sure what you're advocating exactly... Regional culture is one thing, but we often don't participate in just one cultural sphere.
Definition of "covering" is to mute, or conceal those aspects of our identities that are socially stigmatized (i.e. racial identities, sexual orientation, gender roles, etc.) in order to conform. The language of it maybe new but the behavior is certain nothing new to anyone living in the US. Watch the movie "The Human Stain" for the price a person pays in order to cover in another era.
I'm not trying to advocate anything really - my original post was aimed at king_tyris's post about how China is simply a better place because it holds to traditions and cultures. All I was merely trying to point out was that America doesn't define itself by one set of traditions and cultures so trying to compare the US's age with China's is pointless.
As for the other point in the previous post, I was mostly just trying to point out I don't see Covering as throwing aside tradition and culture; I see it as a derogatory term for a new culture formed around science and logical thinking. Modern people in the western area were given two choices - follow traditions which could lead to a slightly less efficient lifestyle or follow a more practical lifestyle.
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On October 05 2009 03:19 Railz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2009 03:07 .risingdragoon wrote:
I'm not sure what you're advocating exactly... Regional culture is one thing, but we often don't participate in just one cultural sphere.
Definition of "covering" is to mute, or conceal those aspects of our identities that are socially stigmatized (i.e. racial identities, sexual orientation, gender roles, etc.) in order to conform. The language of it maybe new but the behavior is certain nothing new to anyone living in the US. Watch the movie "The Human Stain" for the price a person pays in order to cover in another era. I'm not trying to advocate anything really - my original post was aimed at king_tyris's post about how China is simply a better place because it holds to traditions and cultures. All I was merely trying to point out was that America doesn't define itself by one set of traditions and cultures so trying to compare the US's age with China's is pointless. As for the other point in the previous post, I was mostly just trying to point out I don't see Covering as throwing aside tradition and culture; I see it as a derogatory term for a new culture formed around science and logical thinking. Modern people in the western area were given two choices - follow traditions which could lead to a slightly less efficient lifestyle or follow a more practical lifestyle.
some of them
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On October 05 2009 03:21 emucxg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2009 03:19 Railz wrote:On October 05 2009 03:07 .risingdragoon wrote:
I'm not sure what you're advocating exactly... Regional culture is one thing, but we often don't participate in just one cultural sphere.
Definition of "covering" is to mute, or conceal those aspects of our identities that are socially stigmatized (i.e. racial identities, sexual orientation, gender roles, etc.) in order to conform. The language of it maybe new but the behavior is certain nothing new to anyone living in the US. Watch the movie "The Human Stain" for the price a person pays in order to cover in another era. I'm not trying to advocate anything really - my original post was aimed at king_tyris's post about how China is simply a better place because it holds to traditions and cultures. All I was merely trying to point out was that America doesn't define itself by one set of traditions and cultures so trying to compare the US's age with China's is pointless. As for the other point in the previous post, I was mostly just trying to point out I don't see Covering as throwing aside tradition and culture; I see it as a derogatory term for a new culture formed around science and logical thinking. Modern people in the western area were given two choices - follow traditions which could lead to a slightly less efficient lifestyle or follow a more practical lifestyle. some of them
I know, its a pretty vague statement, considering the amount of actual cultures within the borders of China's border ranges from from Han Chinese all the way to the western state Muslims.
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A slightly less efficient lifestyle? Are you kidding me? It places a huge burden on people!
America's founding is traced to a specific date, so of course it's a few hundred years old. It was all forest before that. The whole point I brought up assimilation is to illustrate that it giveth and taketh away - there is a cost. You join into whiteness by forcibly abandoning aspects of your other selves.
Now, I don't like it myself and I hope for a strong comeback of multiculturalism, but for that to happen radical patriotism has to die and the wars end.
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On October 05 2009 03:32 .risingdragoon wrote:
A slightly less efficient lifestyle? Are you kidding me? It places a huge burden on people!
America's founding is traced to a specific date, so of course it's a few hundred years old. It was all forest before that.
Only if you follow pre college American history ...
There was civilization here, albeit, not Anglo-Saxon. 
This post has gone wildly off tangent ... I mean, you'd really have to be reaching to argue that American history covers a longer span than Chinese.
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Sure, there were Native Americans. I've said before it's US the country aka unique form of governance can be dated to an exact point of creation. I never said culture didn't exist here before 1776.
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LoL at the argument "US owes China billions of dollars". The guy who made it meant that China is superior to US because of this, well let me get this straight:
This only means that USA imports more goods from China than it exports to China. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is not easy to judge.
China gets this done by keeping the value of it's currency low artificially.
My point is that this argument is irrelevant and needs further discussion in terms of Macroeconomics.
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On October 05 2009 03:59 polarwolf wrote:
LoL at the argument "US owes China billions of dollars". The guy who made it meant that China is superior to US because of this, well let me get this straight:
This only means that USA imports more goods from China than it exports to China. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is not easy to judge.
China gets this done by keeping the value of it's currency low artificially.
My point is that this argument is irrelevant and needs further discussion in terms of Macroeconomics.
I cannot take your last sentence seriously when you are so obviously clueless in how Macroeconomics works. The only thing you've said that's true was China does keep the value of it's currency low (not sure why you added "artificially" as if it's some sort of biological process). Furthermore, if you studied economics beyond high school and yahoo news, you'd know that's not the reason for US owing China billions of dollars ...
PS. This topic really should be split and renamed.
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EPT
