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On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. Show nested quote +I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one.  Thoughts?
I honestly think a lot of these problems are going to be addressed by the community in way of modding. Some of it would need changes to the game itself like targetting, macros and just imbalances directly. But, I'll worry about that when the time comes. I'd give the game time to grow in terms of patches as well as mods from the community before I reserve judgment.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
Are addons ever going to be implemented? I haven't come across anything that says they will.
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On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. Show nested quote +I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts?
why?
it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares?
all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things
if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race
Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean.
The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes.
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On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race
Ehm, macros and target of target is pretty key in PvE as well... Just sayin..
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On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes.
yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for, AND THEN continue
i'm not against pvp but it's really a sideshow to the main attraction
edit: primarily addressing pvp "balance" issues, not so much target of target etc
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On December 21 2011 07:10 wrags wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes. yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for AND THEN continue
Blizzard built wow the same way, pve ahead of pvp. Eventually Bioware will bring out some awesome stuff for pvp on the side. PvP in this game already has potential, especially if they can do something with the space combat. It opens a lot of options.
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On December 21 2011 07:11 Kralic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:10 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes. yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for AND THEN continue Blizzard built wow the same way, pve ahead of pvp. Eventually Bioware will bring out some awesome stuff for pvp on the side. PvP in this game already has potential, especially if they can do something with the space combat. It opens a lot of options.
i played wow in alpha and beta, pvp was most definitely their first priority. pve stuff came way later, relatively speaking
but it's all a moot point because the easiest thing for them to do is just add items since there's no auto attack in the game. sure they can tweak some class things, but they've basically set themselves up for item based changes
anyway, that's just my view. maybe no one shares the same
edit: items used only in battleground type stuff
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On December 21 2011 07:19 wrags wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:11 Kralic wrote:On December 21 2011 07:10 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes. yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for AND THEN continue Blizzard built wow the same way, pve ahead of pvp. Eventually Bioware will bring out some awesome stuff for pvp on the side. PvP in this game already has potential, especially if they can do something with the space combat. It opens a lot of options. i played wow in alpha and beta, pvp was most definitely their first priority. pve stuff came way later, relatively speaking but it's all a moot point because the easiest thing for them to do is just add items since there's no auto attack in the game. sure they can tweak some class things, but they've basically set themselves up for item based changes anyway, that's just my view. maybe no one shares the same edit: items used only in battleground type stuff
There was no PvP points system or ranking in the initial days. PvP consisted of killing noobs for the hell of it and dueling. There was no real system or balance. I remember just running around killing people for the heck of it, and that was the extent of it.
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On December 21 2011 07:19 wrags wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:11 Kralic wrote:On December 21 2011 07:10 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes. yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for AND THEN continue Blizzard built wow the same way, pve ahead of pvp. Eventually Bioware will bring out some awesome stuff for pvp on the side. PvP in this game already has potential, especially if they can do something with the space combat. It opens a lot of options. i played wow in alpha and beta, pvp was most definitely their first priority. pve stuff came way later, relatively speaking but it's all a moot point because the easiest thing for them to do is just add items since there's no auto attack in the game. sure they can tweak some class things, but they've basically set themselves up for item based changes anyway, that's just my view. maybe no one shares the same edit: items used only in battleground type stuff
So you are saying WoW was built on ganking people in world pvp first and foremost and then they decided they needed some pve? I don't think you played the game back then. There was no battlegrounds, there was no arena, there were no ranks you just killed people red to you back then. Please try harder when you lie.
SWTOR has a better potential of higher skilled pvp based on the fact there is no auto attack implimented.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
Even if we accept your approach of pvp being a secondary focus of SWTOR, I'm not shouting that they must make those improvements in the next 2 weeks or I'll cancel my sub. I'm giving a number of suggestions that they should definitely consider if they want to improve their game and take a larger market share. I'm sure they're not stupid enough to completely disregard PvP.
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On December 21 2011 07:19 wrags wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:11 Kralic wrote:On December 21 2011 07:10 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes. yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for AND THEN continue Blizzard built wow the same way, pve ahead of pvp. Eventually Bioware will bring out some awesome stuff for pvp on the side. PvP in this game already has potential, especially if they can do something with the space combat. It opens a lot of options. i played wow in alpha and beta, pvp was most definitely their first priority. pve stuff came way later, relatively speaking but it's all a moot point because the easiest thing for them to do is just add items since there's no auto attack in the game. sure they can tweak some class things, but they've basically set themselves up for item based changes anyway, that's just my view. maybe no one shares the same edit: items used only in battleground type stuff
yeah right, thats why WoW didnt have battlegrounds or even a point system which came 2 months later and the result of that was tarrens mill vs southshore war. WoW was pure pve, but the community wanted pvp and they added more and more stuff for it.
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On December 21 2011 08:03 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:19 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 07:11 Kralic wrote:On December 21 2011 07:10 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes. yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for AND THEN continue Blizzard built wow the same way, pve ahead of pvp. Eventually Bioware will bring out some awesome stuff for pvp on the side. PvP in this game already has potential, especially if they can do something with the space combat. It opens a lot of options. i played wow in alpha and beta, pvp was most definitely their first priority. pve stuff came way later, relatively speaking but it's all a moot point because the easiest thing for them to do is just add items since there's no auto attack in the game. sure they can tweak some class things, but they've basically set themselves up for item based changes anyway, that's just my view. maybe no one shares the same edit: items used only in battleground type stuff yeah right, thats why WoW didnt have battlegrounds or even a point system which came 2 months later and the result of that was tarrens mill vs southshore war. WoW was pure pve, but the community wanted pvp and they added more and more stuff for it.
Haha I remember the good old tarren mill vs southshore free-for-all. But yeah, pretty much 90% of current WoW was either added in patches or expansions, it's not even close compared to vanilla release. I have faith in Bioware that they will add/fix a lot in the future, meanwhile I'm still enjoying the awesome story while leveling.
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On December 21 2011 08:03 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:19 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 07:11 Kralic wrote:On December 21 2011 07:10 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes. yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for AND THEN continue Blizzard built wow the same way, pve ahead of pvp. Eventually Bioware will bring out some awesome stuff for pvp on the side. PvP in this game already has potential, especially if they can do something with the space combat. It opens a lot of options. i played wow in alpha and beta, pvp was most definitely their first priority. pve stuff came way later, relatively speaking but it's all a moot point because the easiest thing for them to do is just add items since there's no auto attack in the game. sure they can tweak some class things, but they've basically set themselves up for item based changes anyway, that's just my view. maybe no one shares the same edit: items used only in battleground type stuff yeah right, thats why WoW didnt have battlegrounds or even a point system which came 2 months later and the result of that was tarrens mill vs southshore war. WoW was pure pve, but the community wanted pvp and they added more and more stuff for it.
wow no not even close, they had pvp trinkets, honor points then battlegrounds (not to mention class changes and guard buffs around southshore) all before blackwing lair came out, shit even before they changed MC to drop t1 gear only. they spent a relatively long period of time developing pvp AND THEN moved on to pve. all i'm saying is that it should be the other way around for starwars which would be to develop pve first, then pvp later on
On December 21 2011 07:57 Firebolt145 wrote:
Even if we accept your approach of pvp being a secondary focus of SWTOR, I'm not shouting that they must make those improvements in the next 2 weeks or I'll cancel my sub. I'm giving a number of suggestions that they should definitely consider if they want to improve their game and take a larger market share. I'm sure they're not stupid enough to completely disregard PvP.
completely agree. i just feel like there's not a lot of focus on what's amazing about the game, which is pve content. however the interface suggestions you made are pretty spot on
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
Or how bout they do both at the same time? Every single one of the issues I highlighted would help both PvP and PvE if fixed.
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On December 21 2011 07:19 wrags wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:11 Kralic wrote:On December 21 2011 07:10 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 06:59 Firebolt145 wrote:On December 21 2011 06:53 wrags wrote:On December 21 2011 05:55 Firebolt145 wrote:There is a thread on the TOR forums about the glaring issues of PVP complaining about a few issues, examples being combat fluidity, targeting, and too much CC. I made a post about my thoughts and would like to share it here. I think we need to differentiate between two categories. Firstly, there are the balance problems with PVP, which we really cannot fault anyone as it is very much early days for TOR. Things like a bit too much CC are simply class imbalances and can get fixed easily over time. The second and more important category are the game engine issues. The OP mentioned 3 of these: casting responsiveness, buff/debuff notifications, difficulty of targeting. In the long term, these issues are generally more game making or breaking than the balance issues. I feel these issues are even deserving of their own thread but I will post about them here first. Engine issues vary in difficulty to fix. For example, being able to target enemies by clicking on their nameplates is a relatively easy change that we don't need to discuss. Buff/debuff notifications also do not need a complete overhaul to make it clear which debuffs on the enemy are your debuffs. Responsiveness is probably a lot harder to improve but I will not speculate since I am not a game designer. A few other game engine issues I'd like to add that were not mentioned in the OP. They may have been mentioned in the last 17 pages but I'm not going to flip through them all. 1) Macros - not really a gameplay 'issue', but still a HUGE part of gameplay in games that have them. Are there any plans to implement them? In 'that other game', macros play a huge part in pvp. I don't mean one-button macros; I'm talking about macros allowing you to cast something on focus/mouseover targets, etc. 2) A self-target key - this is especially annoying for healers, but incredibly easy to implement that I'm surprised it hasn't already been. A setting so that whenever you press a certain modifier, your spell is cast on yourself instead of your target. 3) Target of target - seeing who your target is casting on is pretty important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. Class imbalances are certainly on BioWare's mind and they will be paying very close attention to rectify any problems. But are they ready to change or alter the game engine with regards to the above? A simple 'yes' regarding this question would pacify many players. It would certainly make me very happy, for one. Thoughts? why? it's not a pvp game, i hate to be blunt but who cares? all of that energy is much better spent improving good pve content and bugfixes for other things if they try to catch up to wow in a race they'll never make it, it's just better for them to start their own race Responses like this makes me want to call you something mean. The game might not be advertised as 'the PvP game of the year', but it clearly has PvP aspirations. It has wargames, plenty of opportunities for PvP, many PvP talents and spells. All the classes are given a PvP trinket at lvl 9, for goodness sakes. yea but they'll spend so much time trying to catch up to something that they'll never beat. right now they're pioneering pve, and i'd rather see them continue to go in that direction instead of stop, turn around, fix something that we didn't really design the game for AND THEN continue Blizzard built wow the same way, pve ahead of pvp. Eventually Bioware will bring out some awesome stuff for pvp on the side. PvP in this game already has potential, especially if they can do something with the space combat. It opens a lot of options. i played wow in alpha and beta, pvp was most definitely their first priority. pve stuff came way later, relatively speaking but it's all a moot point because the easiest thing for them to do is just add items since there's no auto attack in the game. sure they can tweak some class things, but they've basically set themselves up for item based changes anyway, that's just my view. maybe no one shares the same edit: items used only in battleground type stuff
So what, they've already added warzones, valor, TONS of PvP gear, a PvP zone, you're saying they should just don't care about that at all and ignore the issues with it?
SWTOR already has A LOT of PvE content, the different stories for every class alone is going to keep PvE people busy for a long long time, along with two raids (as far as I know) with 8man/16man/hardmode/soon nightmare versions of it.
PvP is definitely by far the most lacking aspect of SWTOR so they should work on it.
(Yes SWTOR is primarily a PvE game, but that doesn't mean they should ignore everything else.)
(And no, PvP was never the first priority in WoW, even the devs have said so multiple times that it was just something that came later.)
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W-wha...?
How...?
How is a digital download "sold out." I really do hope they mean "their servers are overloaded" or something. I don't know how a digital download which uses a simple product key algorithm can be "sold out." Can anyone shed some light on this? It's probably their servers overloading, but this is a very interesting choice of words. O_O
![[image loading]](http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/8554/digitals.png)
EDIT: Yeah I know it says pre-order. Was taken yesterday evening.
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On December 21 2011 08:53 Fruscainte wrote:+ Show Spoiler +W-wha...? How...? How is a digital download "sold out." I really do hope they mean "their servers are overloaded" or something. I don't know how a digital download which uses a simple product key algorithm can be "sold out." Can anyone shed some light on this? It's probably their servers overloading, but this is a very interesting choice of words. O_O EDIT: Yeah I know it says pre-order. Was taken yesterday evening.
It even says so in the official FAQ:
Can the Star Wars: The Old Republic digital products on Origin sell-out?
Yes, even digital versions of the Game can sell-out since there are only a limited number of players that will be admitted into the game at any given time. The numbers of digital and physical versions of the Game available for sale are based on ensuring the best possible experience for all players.
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On December 21 2011 09:17 Ighox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 08:53 Fruscainte wrote:W-wha...? How...? How is a digital download "sold out." I really do hope they mean "their servers are overloaded" or something. I don't know how a digital download which uses a simple product key algorithm can be "sold out." Can anyone shed some light on this? It's probably their servers overloading, but this is a very interesting choice of words. O_O EDIT: Yeah I know it says pre-order. Was taken yesterday evening. It even says so in the official FAQ: Show nested quote +Can the Star Wars: The Old Republic digital products on Origin sell-out?
Yes, even digital versions of the Game can sell-out since there are only a limited number of players that will be admitted into the game at any given time. The numbers of digital and physical versions of the Game available for sale are based on ensuring the best possible experience for all players.
Ah, that makes sense. It's a very misleading phrase though =/
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EPT
