EPTD3 isn´t D2 and D4 won´t be D2 either.
Diablo IV - Page 13
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alpenrahm
Germany629 Posts
D3 isn´t D2 and D4 won´t be D2 either. | ||
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kramvti
73 Posts
D3 at release was the result of Blizzard trying to listen to different factions of D2 fans pulling them in different directions. This is totally and utterly wrong on every level. They never bothered giving two farts what d2 players wanted in d3. They did everything in their power to do the opposite of things we asked for. Tell me where this has to do with d2 fanbase wants 'we didnt do weapon switch because it was confusing to new players, and it wasn't used much except for magic finding in extreme cases' WHAAAAAAAAAAT??? They didnt even play the same game as the rest of us... Tell me what this has to do with what the d2 fanbase wanted 'we removed stat points. you will get them off items only. That way you can find the same item you found 70 levels ago again...but now with 3 more dex!!!! FFS stop talking about things you seem to know nothing about. Maybe instead, actually go read the philosophy Jay Wilson implemented, and then compare it to the laundry list of stuff that was brouhgt up in d2' Hint: They have NO resemblance to each other in the slightest. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17511 Posts
On July 02 2020 05:52 alpenrahm wrote: I enjoyed playing some HC chars in d3 from time to time and i don´t get why all the nostalgia people on this forum keep shitting on the game. IMHO the skill system, Rifts and the multitude of possible builds you could chose from made the game quite fun when you were trying to push to the limits of your build and ran the risk of losing 50 hours of progress. D3 isn´t D2 and D4 won´t be D2 either. Builds in D3 are meaningless. Your gear decides your build for you for the most part and you can change it whenever. You don't really need to think about it and there are no real implications of choosing wrong. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3991 Posts
On July 02 2020 07:22 Manit0u wrote: Builds in D3 are meaningless. Your gear decides your build for you for the most part and you can change it whenever. You don't really need to think about it and there are no real implications of choosing wrong. Builds in D2 meant you just had to grind another character for every build. Instead of 5 (1 of each class) you now had to do 10+. Permanent point allocation also means nobody experiments and just follows the build guide. And the people who played d2 are never going to put in all those hours again (neither are newer players, who are accustomed to games making things easy for them). I think we'd be surprised by how pointless everything would feel if we were to start D2 fresh now. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
D2JSP uses a virtual currency external to D2 which doesn't have D2 value, so its just exchange of items between players of D2JSP where at first the sellers lose items. If you don't sell you're ahead of the sellers, except they are also using bots to generate the items very unfairly. Just need to delete the bots, but if you can't do that, the economy isn't legit at all. Then there are private servers which do have legit economy apparently like PoD.. Also the terrible itemization in D3 was clearly linked to increasing the need to buy off RMAH like was said before. Btw this itemization with quickly growing numbers also means difficulty to play coop with someone you may know who isn't very close to your gear level, it has some big implications on balance. Everything becomes obsolete quickly, and there are fewer things in the game that interact well with your character that you don't either one shot easily or they easily one shot you kind of things. Sounds like that works well with open world?? (or pvp??) | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7008 Posts
You can make a normal dungeon to a "keyed" dungeon, giving it harder mobs and some very hefty modifiers like poison damage will be huge. These modifiers are apparently big enough that you will need to change your build completely if you want to do this dungeon. This means you need a stash full of diverse items and respec'ing will be frequent I guess. Another thing I read is that items have 3 special attributes: - demonic power - angelic power - ancestral power Only when you have the necessary points you will unlock the full potential of some items which will lead to some nice synergies and build optimization www.polygon.com You will have a main story with ingame cinematics and an open world to explore with "camps" to clear, dungeons to invest ... | ||
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heronn
34 Posts
On July 02 2020 09:37 aseq wrote: Builds in D2 meant you just had to grind another character for every build. Instead of 5 (1 of each class) you now had to do 10+. Permanent point allocation also means nobody experiments and just follows the build guide. And the people who played d2 are never going to put in all those hours again (neither are newer players, who are accustomed to games making things easy for them). I think we'd be surprised by how pointless everything would feel if we were to start D2 fresh now. Since 2010 there is one respec per difficulty as first quest reward and Token which gives respec, also most ppl play Plugy mod (change nothing except some qols like bigger stash, ladder rw's ect) and there is perm and fast skill/stat reset. Nobody experiments cuz this game has 20y old and 15y since big balance patch, everything was tested and everything is known. I agreed synergies makes characters too specialized which was mistake and overall bad imo cuz most ppl just max one skill then they are forced to pump rest points in synergies due to damage bonus. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17511 Posts
On July 02 2020 09:37 aseq wrote: Builds in D2 meant you just had to grind another character for every build. Instead of 5 (1 of each class) you now had to do 10+. Permanent point allocation also means nobody experiments and just follows the build guide. And the people who played d2 are never going to put in all those hours again (neither are newer players, who are accustomed to games making things easy for them). I think we'd be surprised by how pointless everything would feel if we were to start D2 fresh now. What do you mean they wouldn't put in the hours? People create new characters in D2 all the time and level them up. And in D3 you have seasons which forces you to level the character from scratch regularly if you want to participate in that. I want my character to feel kinda unique and my decisions to matter, if I change all of my skills on the fly I feel like I'm not playing the same character any more, I like the sense of permanency. One way of doing this is creating skills that are all viable at all stages of the game and you don't have to worry that your build will be crap (it might not be super optimal, but it'll work). This requires some serious thinking and very good design and I'm not sure Blizzard is willing to put in the work for that and are instead doing some D3.5 system. | ||
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Elmonti
Spain299 Posts
Mix this with a more than likely mediocre story/NPCs, and there you go... D3 with darker artstyle... | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3991 Posts
On July 02 2020 17:16 Manit0u wrote: What do you mean they wouldn't put in the hours? People create new characters in D2 all the time and level them up. And in D3 you have seasons which forces you to level the character from scratch regularly if you want to participate in that. I want my character to feel kinda unique and my decisions to matter, if I change all of my skills on the fly I feel like I'm not playing the same character any more, I like the sense of permanency. One way of doing this is creating skills that are all viable at all stages of the game and you don't have to worry that your build will be crap (it might not be super optimal, but it'll work). This requires some serious thinking and very good design and I'm not sure Blizzard is willing to put in the work for that and are instead doing some D3.5 system. I just meant that as we get older, we tend to not be committed as much. I'm never going to play 20 hours of Diablo per week again, while my lv88 shout barbarian in single player took a LONG time to level. So, should powerleveling be a thing and how long should it take to max lvl? 1-2 days? A month? The fact that i'm thinking about the time investment now might mean I'm no longer the target audience though... | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7008 Posts
On July 02 2020 19:58 Elmonti wrote: Good lord... they are still going with the "We give you all the skills, so Build depends on the Gear" shit that made D3 terribly boring, aren't they? .... Mix this with a more than likely mediocre story/NPCs, and there you go... D3 with darker artstyle... From my source above: The studio also declares that items are only a piece of the puzzle for Diablo heroes. If you want to truly increase your power, you’ll need to upgrade your skill ranks, character level, talent trees, the end game progression system, and the items you wear. Power comes from everywhere in Diablo 4, a key difference from Diablo 3. Finally, the studio revealed that it’s removing Ancient Legendaries from the game. Ancients used to be very rare, super powerful versions of Legendary items. Instead, there’s a new, yet unnamed consumable item to customize late-game builds. This new item will drop from destroyed enemies with a random Legendary power attached. Players can then attach the Legendary power to any non-Legendary item. The goal here is to create more unique builds for players. According to Blizzard, the best Rare items in the game are still useful in the end-game. It seems that players can make items even more powerful than basic Legendaries with this new system, but with more choice than the previous Ancient system allowed. In the post, Blizzard clearly indicates that all of these changes are very early, and might not even make it into the finished game. The studio is still looking for feedback on these changes, and will update players on further in-development features soon. but This plays into another major change for the franchise. Attack and defense stats are now only on related items. If you want to increase your attack, you’ll need to change out your weapons. If you’re looking to bolster your defense, you need to find better armor. These two quotes from the same source kinda contradict each other ... | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
I am pretty sure that you can find stats on armor that makes you deal more damage, just not ones that increase the Attack it self. More like crit or more damage to a skill. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On July 02 2020 16:20 heronn wrote: Since 2010 there is one respec per difficulty as first quest reward and Token which gives respec, also most ppl play Plugy mod (change nothing except some qols like bigger stash, ladder rw's ect) and there is perm and fast skill/stat reset. Nobody experiments cuz this game has 20y old and 15y since big balance patch, everything was tested and everything is known. I agreed synergies makes characters too specialized which was mistake and overall bad imo cuz most ppl just max one skill then they are forced to pump rest points in synergies due to damage bonus. Actually there is still a lot of room for experimentation tbh : P but the maxed 1 skill builds dominate 1.10 especially for starting and rushing apparently. There are quite a few key mistakes in 1.10 I think (synergies & only +50% hp for monsters per extra player instead of +100% & OP cheap runewords & extremely OP expensive runewords & some OP unique items (becoming clear best choice in their category instead of increasing choice) ; 1 free stat/skill reset per difficulty is alright but I'd rather they were not in and instead only with the end game craft thing to get the reset or just no reset or partial..). But you can make a lot of very interesting builds that work really well that you never saw a guide for. You can even likely get a more versatile character. Because it's hard to count the amount of builds that can work in D2, for example you could easily build like 50 different sorcs or so. Not perfect but some of the balance is quite amazing. (I believe 1.09 must be best version) Btw I want to mention a mechanic that I really loved after I discovered it in D2. Most D2 players know it I'm sure. You can upgrade a unique item to the next category using a set of low-medium or medium-high cost runes in cube. It doesn't change the magic attributes of the item, but only its normal stats (from normal to exceptional, or exceptional to elite). This allows you to keep some unique item you found and used in normal or later and carry it into nightmare or hell making it more valuable there as well. Many normal unique items are usable later even without upgrading, some less, but it's almost always valuable potential, because the normal unique items have pretty nice attributes already. That's awesome because it further increases the choice of items you may use through the game and the way that you choose to keep and spend things. And because it gives more value to something you may acquire early, for later, making the full journey more relevant. You can even potentially use these upgraded items earlier than expected on an alt for example, because it may not have very high level requirement, and the new stats requirements may not be too high so with some stats choice and bunch of other items to increase some stats.. Did you know magic items (blue) can give the highest single bonus?^^ Sometimes when I look at D2 stats and systems, I think D2 devs were some nice mathematicians. Very smart, and passionate. I think they were making the game they would dream to play themselves, this surely is a recipe for success. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7008 Posts
It has pretty bad steam reviews right now, but I think it can be a fun 50+ hours Just started, so that opinion might change. Most negatives are: - Instability of servers - You can make a normal item into a permadeath item, upgrading it but losing it when dieing. - Small skill choices ( 2 skill trees and a extra passives tree) I started playing the Robothingy with an Alpaca friend, but the choice between the Alpaca and the Golden Retriever was really hard :/ Will tell you more when I get further along | ||
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Simberto
Germany11669 Posts
Also, if you want another classical ARPG that is good fun for 50 ours or so, Grim Dawn is kinda nice, too. At first stuff feels a bit anemic, but at some point you start throwing out meteors and shit that feel as if they have some real impact. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7008 Posts
On July 03 2020 16:04 Simberto wrote: I would especially like to know how it compares to Torchlight 2. I really liked Torchlight 2, but TL3 kind of completely passed my radar. (As in, until your post i didn't even know it existed) Also, if you want another classical ARPG that is good fun for 50 ours or so, Grim Dawn is kinda nice, too. At first stuff feels a bit anemic, but at some point you start throwing out meteors and shit that feel as if they have some real impact. That is the beauty of TL.net I guess :D TL 3 was originally anounced as TL Frontiers, an ARPG MMO. They changed it at the start of the year into a more single / party/ coop player ARPG with city hubs, similar to how the way D4 is developed I guess. It started in EA on steam I think 2 weeks ago. First week was unplayable (server issues) but now it's pretty stable. I'm only 1,5 hours in yet. Will tell you more after the weekend  I played Grim Dawn a few years back and I loved it! I think I played some sort of superbeam build but I don't quite recall. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17511 Posts
On July 03 2020 16:17 Harris1st wrote: I played Grim Dawn a few years back and I loved it! I think I played some sort of superbeam build but I don't quite recall. Edit: I completely forgot how deep GD actually is  It's the D3 we should have had. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7008 Posts
On July 03 2020 17:03 Manit0u wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCY87prZRlU&t=27m27s Edit: I completely forgot how deep GD actually is It's the D3 we should have had.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNmelAdiK2o lol yeah I think that's it! | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On July 02 2020 06:58 kramvti wrote: 'we didnt do weapon switch because it was confusing to new players, and it wasn't used much except for magic finding in extreme cases' WHAAAAAAAAAAT??? They didnt even play the same game as the rest of us... Weapon switch is one of the main ways that you can build for example a amazon that uses both spear and bow and other things, weapon switching is great. | ||
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heronn
34 Posts
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