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On July 12 2012 20:21 Ace wrote:
The reason you don't see many "great bigs" is that it's much harder for post up players to flourish in the modern NBA + the relative skill level of non-centers being better than the pre 2000s era players.
ETA: It's also why people thinking the 92 Dream Team would steam roll the 2008/2012 teams makes me cringe. In terms of pure basketball talent you have Lebron/Wade/Kobe who are better than Magic and Bird with MJ being the only guy out of the PGs/Wings that can be stated to be better than them without question. You've also got Chris Paul who is better than Isaiah Thomas(I know he wasn't there, but for comparison's sake) and Stockton which bumps the competion to a whole new level. Add in that any "classic" formation from the 92 team with Jordan and Magic on the court at the same time means Bird is the only floor spacer. They also have a very weak bench compared to the 08 team. It really does come down to their big guys taking advantage of 08/12's lack of big interior defenders. If no handchecking is allowed then 92 is serious, serious trouble.
I think that you're seriously misremembering how good Barkley, Robinson and Pippen were in 1992.
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I would give the edge to 2012 even without Wade,Rose,Howard,Bosh all missing due to injury. They are freakishly athletic and a defensive nightmare.
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Wait. How is this officiated? 1992 NBA rules, LBJ-era NBA rules, or international rules?
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You think Barkley, Robinson and Pippen are even in the same tier of player ability as LeBron/Wade/Kobe? I don't even think Pippen would be good enough defensively to guard any of them even with handchecking.
ETA: I don't think it matters what rule set is used as clearly 2003/2004 rule changes kill the 92 team with their lack of elite ball handlers. However, giving handchecking to guys like LeBron/Melo/Wade is just unfair as they are bigger than the wings of the 92 team with the exception of maybe Jordan. The 92 team would have a very difficult time whereas the 08/12 team will be happy to just run iso plays with their elite ball handling advantage. Really the issue here is that the "modern" guys have just as many devastating scorers where as the "older" guys have major problems defensively with Bird/Magic and even Drexler trying to guard some of these perimeter players.
I think Robinson would thrive in the 08/12 rule set since he was pretty much the first speedy Center that actually used his dribbling ability to blow by other bigs. Possibly Ewing too? I think it's pretty much 92 getting their best 2 way bigs on the floor and riding them to victory as their game plan.
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Well like you said, since hand checking is allowed in Olympic play, both sides would benefit just the same. The Robinson matchup vs. any 12 big is particularly interesting for me because of 12's lack of size compared with Robinson's aforementioned athleticisim. Admiral taking balls off the rim all day.
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If this is 92 Jordan I think this is before he really bulked up.
Also forgot to mention the 08/12 team has no reliable post up offense from Chandler/Howard vs the 92 team unless Barkley is on the floor somehow guarding one of them. Funny enough it's really the wings of 08/12 that would be posting up as best they can with Melo/Kobe/Wade/LeBron(08 version no, 12 version yes) doing the dirty work.
On July 12 2012 22:30 seanisgrand wrote:
Well like you said, since hand checking is allowed in Olympic play, both sides would benefit just the same. The Robinson matchup vs. any 12 big is particularly interesting for me because of 12's lack of size compared with Robinson's aforementioned athleticisim. Admiral taking balls off the rim all day.
The more I think about it the more I feel like leaning heavily on Robinson as their top 2 way big is the way to go. I think once you add in his speed and moderate shooting ability from the foul line area they can get something going. Otherwise it's a clustercuck offensively with their best shooters being poor defenders and not being great slashers.
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Can't wait to see some of the lineups coach K comes up with. LBJ/Durant/Westbrook/Love/Chandler lineup looks scary with spacing and rebounders on the floor.
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Heat is the team to beat this year??
Their possibly best lineup (though they wont run it as a starting unit):
PG: Lebron/D-Wade
SG: Ray Allen
PF: D-Wade/Lebron
PF: Rashard Lewis
C: C-Bosh
Why is this such a dangerous unit? Rashard Lewis on a interview: "They gonna double Lebron, they gonna double Dwayne Wade, they gonna double Chris Bosh, and they are not gonna leave Ray Allen open, so someone has to be open!". And for a 39% 3-pt shooter (Lewis) to get open shots, they just got even better this year compared to last. Man, the Heat is going to be hard to beat next season!
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On July 12 2012 22:48 vietboi wrote:
Heat is the team to beat this year??
Their possibly best lineup (though they wont run it as a starting unit):
PG: Lebron/D-Wade
SG: Ray Allen
PF: D-Wade/Lebron
PF: Rashard Lewis
C: C-Bosh
Why is this such a dangerous unit? Rashard Lewis on a interview: "They gonna double Lebron, they gonna double Dwayne Wade, they gonna double Chris Bosh, and they are not gonna leave Ray Allen open, so someone has to be open!". And for a 39% 3-pt shooter (Lewis) to get open shots, they just got even better this year compared to last. Man, the Heat is going to be hard to beat next season!
I see a lot of teams trying to play zone and slow the Heat down. With a full season this year teams are going to be better prepared facing them unlike last year when it was a lot of man.
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I think maybe you meant the second PF spot as a SF spot, but even so, Wade there is a huge stretch. That lineup would get destroyed from the inside out by any team with AS level bigs. Offensively potent though.
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On July 12 2012 23:10 krndandaman wrote:
i think the heat will start with their original line up but you have so many different variations you could make with the flexibility the heat roster has... spoelstra is probably having fun with the lineups right now
I think this one will be fun to watch:
PG: Wade
SG: Allen
F: Battier
F: Lebron
C: Bosh
Chalmers isn't going to like comming off the bench after starting every game last season.
Edit: sorry read your post wrong
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To that dream team discussion above - any US team with potent shaq on it is the best team in history of bball. Just need semi-relevant players around him to fill up a roster.
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On July 12 2012 23:29 ecstatica wrote:
To that dream team discussion above - any US team with potent shaq on it is the best team in history of bball. Just need semi-relevant players around him to fill up a roster. +1 ..unless they devise a really nice hack-a-shaq strategy where they distribute fouls really nicely among their players to have him shoot FT a lot, but that will be hard with 5 fouls per player.
edit:although Robinson could be a capable defender on him too. The Admiral was beastly in his own right.
Plus, it is just hard to say in general. The players adapt their game to the rules so we can only imagine what they would play like under different rules. There might be a few things the 92 team thought they couldn't get-away-with-so-they-never attempted-it sort of thing. Would definitely be great though.
And I agree with Ace that a 92 vs 12 team would come down to how the '12 team can handle the '92 bigs (was gonna post that until I saw Ace post that in the next page). Chandler will have a tough time with Robinson, and Carmelo can't guard Barkley (no way) and then they would still have Ewing to worry about. Would be interesting to see who can exploit their advantages more but dam close.
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On July 12 2012 22:21 Ace wrote:
You think Barkley, Robinson and Pippen are even in the same tier of player ability as LeBron/Wade/Kobe? I don't even think Pippen would be good enough defensively to guard any of them even with handchecking.
No. But you didn't mention these players at all. These aren't the 3 best players on the 1992 team.
LeBron is obviously the best player of these 6.
Saying that Wade and Kobe are on a different level than Barkley/Pippen/Admiral is like saying Emmitt Smith and LaDanian Tomlinson are better than Walter Payton and Jim Brown. They're just fresher in your mind.
This entire argument is stupid in the first place, its riddled with hypothticals. If Barkley was born in 1987 and had as much attention as LeBron had since he was a fetus, and the trainers coaches etc, who's to say that he wouldn't be a better player today?
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Ya there are so many angles to consider that we can argue and debate our sides all day. I think we can all say it would be great to watch for sure.
I am tired of the whole Howard media coverage. I don't want an up-to-the-minute timeline on what some random nobody said and how many times he actually changes his mind in a day. Just let us know when the trade happens now.
edit:I agree with Jordan on that the 92 team might not have been as athletic but they were definitely smarter. Even though there is no direct quote from him on the record saying that. http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/basketball/story/_/id/8159879/2012-olympics-michael-jordan-laughed-kobe-bryant-dream-team-boast
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Crowder
Collison
Brand
Kaman
Dallas is gonna be sick good. Book it!
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Vegas has the dream team +8
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EPT
