EPTChuck Hayes and Marcus Thorton to Kings
Thad Young stays on the Sixers
Chandler, in possibly the worst move so far this off season to the Knicks.
Caron Butler to the Clips.
Anything else interesting I missed?
NBA Regular Season 2011-2012 - Page 22
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
Chuck Hayes and Marcus Thorton to Kings Thad Young stays on the Sixers Chandler, in possibly the worst move so far this off season to the Knicks. Caron Butler to the Clips. Anything else interesting I missed? | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On December 10 2011 01:58 Ace wrote: Yes, the Knicks are saying Tyson Chandler is worth Wade/Lebron money. Chandler's worth $50 million a year? I've been thinking about this, and if some players are worth up to double the max salary, you'd have to steal other players for half their worth to compete on a moneyball type level. Do you have to have a ton of trade assets to compete? Kwame Brown and a second round draft pick in europe (marc) for Pau Gasol. Ray Allen was for Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak, Jeff Green (was Jeff Green or Yijian). The Knicks had basically nothing, then kept making cap clearing trades. The only thing I'm not sure about it Pau Gasol at his age being a much better trade value than Kevin Martin (people are making Pau sound like a superstar, which is very different from the Pau bashing last postseason). | ||
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Serendipityx
United States595 Posts
THERE IS NO FREE AGENCY IF YOUR TEAM HAS NO MONEY OR ASSETS. Jesus how many times do I have to say this? What money will New Orleans have to throw at a Free Agent that will make them a contender? What picks can they give up in a sign and trade for a marquee FA next year? Are you guys even LOOKING at what the team has? Just answer these questions: Where does Houston/NO go after the trade? What's their cap space? How many picks do they have? Lottery picks? What Free Agents would be on the market in 2012 that they can trade for? Just do that, then come back. Hey newsflash, THEY HAVE NO CAP SPACE BEFORE THE TRADE EITHER. They amnesty thabeet and get rid of Scola and Martin, they have 16 million dollars in cap space. How many times do I have to repeat how the Rockets are a better team at the end of the day if this deal goes through? You haven't countered anything I've said other than omg no draft picks autolose for u. As for free agents on the 2012 market and potential stars you cant trade for, how can you even ask that question. I can't predict the future, opportunities come and go. How many people thought Deron Williams was getting traded last season? Was there even a trade rumor on that? Not to my knowledge there wasn't. And how does the Rockets have no assets, you consider assets young players well geez, patrick patterson, jordan hill, chase budinger, terrence williams, marcus morris, jonny flynn. But i mean heck if you wanna become the Rockets gm and have them play all young guys, acquire no size to imrpove the roster hope the ping pong ball goes their way for 3-4 years while getting that one guy in the draft who can become a franchise star then so be it. Morey was thinking about quitting after the trade veto anyways. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Houston will have no lottery picks, no complimentary pieces (since you know, they just traded them all), and cap space. The marquee Free Agents on the market would be Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Deron Williams. All of them are slated to be gone. The Rockets would have Pau Gasol + filler with nothing to show for it. Meaning they'd clear cap space to end up in the same fucking position they started in: having to pay out more money than they need to for a marginal team because there are no marquee Free Agents for them to grab. You'd even entertain overpaying for Nene, a guy that isn't getting better and is also not even getting you far into the playoffs if you get that far. A core of Scola/Martin/Brooks(Lowry) and filler and you couldn't even make the 2011 playoffs with Rick Adelman coaching. Somehow in 2012 you'll be better off with a non-superstar Pau Gasol and whatever is left after you gutted the roster. Congratulations, you're in the same place you were in 2011. You keep typing the same shit over and over and don't even understand how your own team works, how players get traded, how teams stock up on picks, and most importantly what their fucking cap space situation and available Free Agents look like. Do your research if you want to talk about the Houston Rockets. | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
On December 10 2011 07:53 ChaosTriggeR wrote: Hey newsflash, THEY HAVE NO CAP SPACE BEFORE THE TRADE EITHER. They amnesty thabeet and get rid of Scola and Martin, they have 16 million dollars in cap space. How many times do I have to repeat how the Rockets are a better team at the end of the day if this deal goes through? You haven't countered anything I've said other than omg no draft picks autolose for u. As for free agents on the 2012 market and potential stars you cant trade for, how can you even ask that question. I can't predict the future, opportunities come and go. How many people thought Deron Williams was getting traded last season? Was there even a trade rumor on that? Not to my knowledge there wasn't. And how does the Rockets have no assets, you consider assets young players well geez, patrick patterson, jordan hill, chase budinger, terrence williams, marcus morris, jonny flynn. But i mean heck if you wanna become the Rockets gm and have them play all young guys, acquire no size to imrpove the roster hope the ping pong ball goes their way for 3-4 years while getting that one guy in the draft who can become a franchise star then so be it. Morey was thinking about quitting after the trade veto anyways. Show me a small market team that evolved into a legitimate contender through free agency, please. Over paying a center to come to town won't solve their incredibly huge issues in the back court. They will be an uneven team. Also I'm not sure who you think Patterson, Hill, Budinger, Williams, Morris, and Flynn can be traded for, but it certainly isn't much. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
EDIT: Lol, for anyone who disagrees with me, my math is pretty acrobatic too. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Chris Paul to Lakers Pau Gasol to Rockets Odom-Martin-Scola-Dragic to New Orleants You cut Okafor's 12.6 million off the books to get under the cap. How can they be below the salary floor? WOW! Hey, look what I've been saying for the last 2 days? https://twitter.com/#!/KBergCBS KBergCBSKen Berger In resumption of CP3-Lakers talks with Houston, Hornets under directive from NBA to get younger players, quality picks in deal, souces say. | ||
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Serendipityx
United States595 Posts
On December 10 2011 08:06 Ace wrote: Yes you can predict the future: go look up people's contracts. Jesus this shit isn't hard. The cap space comment was for New Orleans but I'll entertain Houston also. Houston will have no lottery picks, no complimentary pieces (since you know, they just traded them all), and cap space. The marquee Free Agents on the market would be Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Deron Williams. All of them are slated to be gone. The Rockets would have Pau Gasol + filler with nothing to show for it. Meaning they'd clear cap space to end up in the same fucking position they started in: having to pay out more money than they need to for a marginal team because there are no marquee Free Agents for them to grab. You'd even entertain overpaying for Nene, a guy that isn't getting better and is also not even getting you far into the playoffs if you get that far. A core of Scola/Martin/Brooks(Lowry) and filler and you couldn't even make the 2011 playoffs with Rick Adelman coaching. Somehow in 2012 you'll be better off with a non-superstar Pau Gasol and whatever is left after you gutted the roster. Congratulations, you're in the same place you were in 2011. You keep typing the same shit over and over and don't even understand how your own team works, how players get traded, how teams stock up on picks, and most importantly what their fucking cap space situation and available Free Agents look like. Do your research if you want to talk about the Houston Rockets. Lol what, that team couldn't win because it was undersized. When your center is 6'6 no shit you won't get anywhere, are you blind? You seem to think that the roster the rockets had last year was formidable when it clearly wasn't. That roster was destined for a 14th pick cause it was the same thing they rolled out the year before except they got Kevin Martin for a full season this time, which by the way didn't do anything to impact the team. All that happened was they improved offensively while taking an equally huge hit on defense. Oh by the way how is losing Martin ,scola and dragic "gutting" the roster. My god you are ignorant. The only big hit they take is Kevin Martin and get a better big man in Gasol. And so yes running a roster of Lowry/Lee/Bud/Gasol/Nene is better than Lowry/Martin/Bud/Scola/Hayes. That should be obvious. I mean seriously they trade 3 players and suddenly theres nothing surrounding the roster? Somehow you clearly think Gasol is extremely overrated despite what hes done for both the Lakers and the Grizzlies. Somehow you think the Rockets have no long term plans when Martin and Scola were the two oldest players on the team. You say that none of the Rockets young players look attractive but maybe thats cause no ones seen what most of them can do. Adelman didn't play players like Terrence Williams and Patrick Patterson nearly enough and the move of Jordan Hill to the 5 made his previous season useless. Their development has clearly been stinted. But ok clearly you have a different opinion on Gasol's value than I do and that basically is the root of the argument. Whatever I'm sick of arguing cause this type of shit goes nowhere. I guess you can revel in your victory or whatever you want to call it | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Clearly, you are an uninformed fan that doesn't know much. Keep posting though, you make me feel better. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On December 10 2011 09:04 Ace wrote: How is that even possible? Put it in the trade machine. Before you add in Emeka Okafor the Hornets are over the Cap if you try to do this: Chris Paul to Lakers Pau Gasol to Rockets Odom-Martin-Scola-Dragic to New Orleants You cut Okafor's 12.6 million off the books to get under the cap. How can they be below the salary floor? WOW! Hey, look what I've been saying for the last 2 days? https://twitter.com/#!/KBergCBS Hoopshype has them at 42 and I'm checking the machine now. EDIT: I'm not sure but I'm pretty convinced that those could be cap holds. If you add up the numbers on the trade machine, it comes to around 42 million. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Either way like I said, the league has told New Orleans to restructure a deal for Chris Paul that would get them young players and/or picks. They don't want to rebuild with veterans as it makes no sense. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On December 10 2011 07:25 Ace wrote: If you are not tanking then you are REBUILDING or CONTENDING. If you are rebuilding you have young players and/or draft picks that are cheap assets: Philly, Indiana, and Memphis are 3 teams that hoarded draft picks and rebuilt their teams. If you are good enough to build around that then you get to the next stage which is contending: OKC and Chicago. Young teams that got a superstars(s) and kept building because they had ASSETS to trade: young players and/or picks. Not every team is tanking at the same time because like you said - it's impossible. But every team isn't instantly a contender either. But you don't want to be what New Orleans would: a non contender with no assets (picks or young talent) which means you'll have to rebuild all over again a few years later when you could do it NOW. This isn't a difficult concept to understand as it has been going on in the NBA for over 20 years now. Philly, Indiana and Memphis don't have a championship caliber superstar and they're all the 7-8th seed in their conference last year. I have no idea which shitty team's picks they have, but their own pick is likely to be in the mid to late teens where superstars are rarely found. Not to mention that they're on the clock, since they will have to either pay, trade or let their current young players walk in a few years when their cheap rookie contracts end. New Orleans, at least, has the capability of being in the next tier of teams from contenders. They have the potential of being the sort of team that is not good enough to win the championship but good enough to make deep playoff runs, sort of like the Jazz and Hawks of the past few years. And most of that core is pretty old, so they can flip those big expiring contracts in the future for draft picks. Even though they weren't a contender, their ticket sales have been rising in the past few years. Tanking and hoarding draft picks is only good if you manage to get a top 5 pick or so. It's too much of a crapshoot getting a superstar outside of those picks. There's a business case to be made for being a consistent, competitive playoff team that is below what it takes to win a championship, rather than continuously waiting for the superstar that may never come. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
New Orleans, at least, has the capability of being in the next tier of teams from contenders. They have the potential of being the sort of team that is not good enough to win the championship but good enough to make deep playoff runs, sort of like the Jazz and Hawks of the past few years. And most of that core is pretty old, so they can flip those big expiring contracts in the future for draft picks. New Orleans wouldn't want to pay all that money just for a deep playoff run with short but expensive contracts. Any of those guys could leave in 2 years so why would you pay big money for a stint where you don't contend? It is a waste of their time. The difference was the Jazz and the Hawks also had young players when they were making runs. The youngest out of the good players they were acquiring was Kevin Martin at 28. Not even comparable to Utah or Atlanta. Even though they weren't a contender, their ticket sales have been rising in the past few years. Tanking and hoarding draft picks is only good if you manage to get a top 5 pick or so. It's too much of a crapshoot getting a superstar outside of those picks. There's a business case to be made for being a consistent, competitive playoff team that is below what it takes to win a championship, rather than continuously waiting for the superstar that may never come. There is: you need to have a large fan base with no other game in town that will allow you to sell out even if you can't win right away. There are only a few franchises in the league like that, the 2 most notorious ones being Golden State and Sacramento. New Orleans can't do what they do because they haven't even been in the city for 15 years yet. They are literally a new team that just arrived in 2001: They have no die hard fan base that is willing to sit through a crap product. They can't just be medicore because it isn't winning nor is it profitable. | ||
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x2fst
1272 Posts
i for one am shocked | ||
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chennis
Taiwan227 Posts
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jtbem
Canada1404 Posts
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VENDIZ
1575 Posts
On December 10 2011 07:40 Holcan wrote: Rip bought out, finally. Chuck Hayes and Marcus Thorton to Kings Thad Young stays on the Sixers Chandler, in possibly the worst move so far this off season to the Knicks. Caron Butler to the Clips. Anything else interesting I missed? Battier to the Heat - makes an already bulletproof defense even better. Arenas is waived (amnesty) Hill stays with the Suns (had offers from Knicks, Clippers & Bulls) T-Mac to the Hawks Vince Carter was also waived Also; wow, Oden's health is worse than Roy's knees, and he retired... This smells like a short NBA career.. | ||
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