EPTNBA Playoffs (2010-2011) - Page 33
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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shmay
United States1091 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
@TTT: Thats also an issue with MVP voting. Sometimes voters can't separate excitement from actual skill. I found it hilarious last round that people were like wow...Chris Paul is damn good. Partly because the Hornets barely got TV time but still. I don't know how anyone in their right mind didn't think he was one of the top 5 players in the league. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14896 Posts
On May 05 2011 01:21 TwoToneTerran wrote: Because he used to be arguably the best player in the league a couple years ago. People grade you harshly when they expect so much, which is why I doubt Lebron can ever win another MVP. Quoted for history because this will be soooooooo wrong | ||
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JKira
Canada1002 Posts
On May 04 2011 15:58 The Chief wrote: Please, for the love of god, stop changing the subject and stop missing the point of what people are saying, we are not arguing about wade's resume, we are arguing that it doesnt change the fact that he is an athletic player who goes to the basket hard and has the charateristics of a player that are easier to find that that of the characteristics than ginobli. we are NOT saying that its just EASY to find players like wade, we are saying that you would find more players like wade on the whole than you would like ginobli. There are actually already certain people in the league who play similar to wade now anyway (Mostly tall PG's and quick SG's). Wade- Athletic goes to the rim, good dribbler, good passer, good shooter. Top 5-10 player Ginobli - Unconventional style of eurosteps, unconventional body contact shots, left handed fade-aways but shoots right just as much. Top 10-15 player. Which of these 2 is harder to find in a basketball player now days, DON'T GO ON TO A RANT ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THIS QUESTION. Why are you going on so hard about your point that Ginobili is a "rarer breed" of basketball player than Wade like it proves anything? If you're talking about skillset then yes, there's a lot more players like Wade who make a name for themselves by being athletic and quick and attacking the basket. That's actually what it takes to be good in the NBA these days. But Wade is BY FAR the most efficient player at doing that for a guard (he shot 50% for the season), all the more impressive when you consider how much more he score in comparison to those other guards. He is also one of the few guards that can average over a steal and a block per game. Wade may have a more common offensive skillset than Ginobili (which I could also make a strong argument against) but that's like saying a Gold league player plays a similar macro style to IdrA. Wade is an one in a generation guard, and the one that came before was named Michael Jordan. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 05 2011 01:28 KOFgokuon wrote: Quoted for history because this will be soooooooo wrong Lebron was clearly a better player this season than Rose, but he's expected to be that good AND everyone hates him. Unless the media magically loosens the proverbial noose on him I'm doubting he'll ever get adequate respect again. | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
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snuppe
Denmark285 Posts
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JKira
Canada1002 Posts
On May 05 2011 01:32 Megatronn wrote: Dwight Howard and LeBron James just have something that other players don't win. Their drive to win is insane, if they need to they'll put the team on their back. I know other players are like this as well but when Dwight or LeBron get into this mindset it's like their on a completely different level compared to others. It's one thing to have the mindset of a winner, it's another to have the physical ability to carry an entire team by himself. I'm not sure what Dwight has done this season to prove he has the ability to carry a team to you. If you're thinking of two years ago I would argue that it was more because he exposed a huge flaw in the Cavs frontcourt and the Magic capitalized on some very clutch shooting. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On May 05 2011 01:53 JKira wrote: It's one thing to have the mindset of a winner, it's another to have the physical ability to carry an entire team by himself. I'm not sure what Dwight has done this season to prove he has the ability to carry a team to you. If you're thinking of two years ago I would argue that it was more because he exposed a huge flaw in the Cavs frontcourt and the Magic capitalized on some very clutch shooting. It's not Dwight's fault that his team sucks and can't hit a shot to save their lives. It's not his fault that while he's scoring 30+ and grabbin 15+ boards and playing spectacular defense, his team is shooting 10% from the 3 point line and no one can help him. How is he supposed to teach his team how to shoot the damn rock? | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14896 Posts
On May 05 2011 01:31 TwoToneTerran wrote: Lebron was clearly a better player this season than Rose, but he's expected to be that good AND everyone hates him. Unless the media magically loosens the proverbial noose on him I'm doubting he'll ever get adequate respect again. If Jordan couldn't win every year then I wouldn't expect Lebron to | ||
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JKira
Canada1002 Posts
On May 05 2011 02:00 Roffles wrote: It's not Dwight's fault that his team sucks and can't hit a shot to save their lives. It's not his fault that while he's scoring 30+ and grabbin 15+ boards and playing spectacular defense, his team is shooting 10% from the 3 point line and no one can help him. How is he supposed to teach his team how to shoot the damn rock? Yes, I know his team failed BIG TIME in the playoffs, but that's my point. Atlanta dared Dwight to beat them by himself and he couldn't. I'm not saying Dwight sucks or anything. If the MVP award was measured by a player's statistical worth to a team Dwight would have been running away with it for 3+ years. The thing is not very many players can just put an entire team on their back and make a deep run into the playoffs. Megatronn said that Dwight and Lebron can, when I would say that Dwight can't, and Lebron has a strong case against him too (though in my opinion he is one of the few players who can). Again I'm not saying that Dwight is bad, but it is really difficult for one player, ESPECIALLY a Centre, to carry one team by himself. | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On May 05 2011 02:25 JKira wrote: Yes, I know his team failed BIG TIME in the playoffs, but that's my point. Atlanta dared Dwight to beat them by himself and he couldn't. I'm not saying Dwight sucks or anything. If the MVP award was measured by a player's statistical worth to a team Dwight would have been running away with it for 3+ years. The thing is not very many players can just put an entire team on their back and make a deep run into the playoffs. Megatronn said that Dwight and Lebron can, when I would say that Dwight can't, and Lebron has a strong case against him too (though in my opinion he is one of the few players who can). Again I'm not saying that Dwight is bad, but it is really difficult for one player, ESPECIALLY a Centre, to carry one team by himself. I guess I could re word what I said and say instead.. they have the highest chance to step up when needed the most? I'm a Magic fan and I think the team has been doing really well but they really screwed up a lot against the hawks :/ | ||
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The Chief
Australia138 Posts
On May 05 2011 01:29 JKira wrote: Why are you going on so hard about your point that Ginobili is a "rarer breed" of basketball player than Wade like it proves anything? If you're talking about skillset then yes, there's a lot more players like Wade who make a name for themselves by being athletic and quick and attacking the basket. That's actually what it takes to be good in the NBA these days. But Wade is BY FAR the most efficient player at doing that for a guard (he shot 50% for the season), all the more impressive when you consider how much more he score in comparison to those other guards. He is also one of the few guards that can average over a steal and a block per game. Wade may have a more common offensive skillset than Ginobili (which I could also make a strong argument against) but that's like saying a Gold league player plays a similar macro style to IdrA. Wade is an one in a generation guard, and the one that came before was named Michael Jordan. I am not denying the fact at how insanely good wade is and his efficiency, i was simply just saying the skill set of ginobli is a much rarer breed than wades, and i am in no means saying that wades skill set is common, in fact its very rare to find anyone who matches his skill set but this TwoTone is taking anything people are trying to say and blowing it way out of proportion and is just missing the point completely, it just bothered me so much that such a simple statement can be taken and misunderstood THAT much by someone. Anyways mod's want it dropped, so its dropped. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On May 05 2011 01:31 TwoToneTerran wrote: Lebron was clearly a better player this season than Rose, but he's expected to be that good AND everyone hates him. Unless the media magically loosens the proverbial noose on him I'm doubting he'll ever get adequate respect again. That's a pretty bold claim if you're putting your faith in the American sports media -_-; As we can tell from the MVP selection, the media is a group of people that will chase after anything that's hot and new at the moment. Like someone mentioned earlier, Kevin Durant was an absolute media darling exactly 1 year ago. Not even two years ago, ESPN would regularly ask "Is Deron Williams better than Chris Paul?" Now? These fools can hardly stop themselves from drooling over Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook. They're shocked that Chris Paul is good. I rarely hear effusive praise for Kevin Durant. The media has a short memory for prodigies but a long one for champions. More than anything, the media loves winners. I suspect Lebron James will have at least 2 more MVPs. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On May 04 2011 23:17 TwoToneTerran wrote: Is this a mod order? I just can't see why it's hard to admit that Dwayne Wade is a one of a kind player like Ginobli, even if they're special for different reasons. He's taking it like I'm saying Ginobli isn't unique at all when all I'm saying is Dwayne Wade has set himself apart as a special player by what he's done with his "common" skills. I asked you because you guys are talking about different issues and missing each other's points. I didn't mean any disrespect, like I said. I certainly understand your point. You are saying that Wade's a special player in a way that cannot be measured on skills. I get it, but I think other guys are saying it from a purely skill-set perspective. And I do think that we will see a lot more Wade-like players (in terms of both skill and "resume") before we see a Ginobili. This isn't really going anywhere, besides dragging on a dead topic. | ||
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MaRiNe23
United States747 Posts
Kobe only had an "excellent team" till that playoffs vs the detroit pistons. I think ur thinking about when the lakers used to have Kobe/Shaq/Karl Malone/Gary Paton <---- All NBA hall of famers or soon to be NBA hall of famers. Once the Shaq-Kobe feud began the laker's roster SUCKED. It's just like earlier, whoever said dwight howard was doing all the work while his teammates shot only 10% from the field. Replace dwight with kobe and that pretty much describes the situation of the lakers once shaq left. Not only did Shaq left but also karl malone, payton but most importantly Phil Jackson....they only had derek fisher(respectable)....a very passive lamar odum...and luke walton(lmao)..and chuckie atkins and some random coach and the rest sucked. Back then they were aruging the SAME things u two were arguing(wade vs ginoblio) except they were comparing shaq and kobe about how it's so easy to find another kobe bryant but very hard to find another "300 pound dominant center like shaq" or something like that and that it was dumb of the lakers to sign off shaq. But in the end Kobe proved that he could do it without shaq(when everyone else doubted him)and is without a doubt in my mind the greatest player in the game right now The lakers were stripped once shaq left and it was a looong work in progress of Kobe not being a ball hog(81 points vs toronoto raptors)and being a team player, getting phil jackson back,aquiring a new center to take shaq's place(gasol)and for odum to stop being so dam passive to become the team that lakers is today. So please don't say Kobe had an excellent team backing him..the lakers freaking sucked for 2 years after shaq left.. edit: acutally I re-thought about the 4th paragraph and wanna say that both kobe and shaq were special players and when shaq left he immeideately brought an NBA championship to the team he went to while it took kobe 1-2 years to build the championship team that they have today. However, now shaq's not as good or as dominant as he was before and it's Kobe that's still winning championships and stuff. | ||
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
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