EPTBut that's just me I guess
Diablo III General Discussion - Page 1103
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Harris1st
Germany6689 Posts
But that's just me I guess | ||
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virpi
Germany3598 Posts
On November 13 2018 22:04 Harris1st wrote: For someone who hates any kind of RNG in games I would love to just farm/ grind out some sort of currency with 100% drop rate and then just use this currency to get the BiS item for my current build, again with 100% succes rate. Done But that's just me I guess People are still playing the lottery, even though everyone knows that it's a waste of money. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3969 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
On November 10 2018 10:11 Excalibur_Z wrote: I believe one of the worst elements of D2 was the discovery of Magic Find. It created this interesting decision friction between survivability, killing speed, and loot quality, but more often than not you would just have a "MF character" (often a Sorc) teleport to the end of a dungeon, kill the target boss in 10 seconds, then exit and repeat. It just made everything feel really samey and boring, with the only thrill being the loot you got. D3's Rifts were kind of cool simply because they gave players what they wanted: dynamic random level generation, infinite enemy variety, the inability to just skip past enemies (because progression required killing), and a wider variety of end bosses. Greater Rifts were doubly interesting because they offer infinitely scaling difficulty for people who are interested in testing their limits. However, in order to progress along that difficulty treadmill, you had to have the stats, builds, and set/gear bonuses necessary to survive (usually procs for damage spikes or high damage mitigation uptime) which ironically also made things feel samey. . Huh, personally I couldn't disagree more with that. I really enjoyed magic find in D2, I felt it was a really fun that character progression for a MF character (though you're right, it's like 90% sorc, 9% hammeradin, 1% other) is sort of different from that of other characters, and then through the item drops you can figure out what character you want to make next that gets to use the sweet loot. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
Bots rule the economy anyway when nobody is banning bots, so after a few weeks you can buy some of the best items for perfect gems and you are kinda OP  (unfortunately) | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17182 Posts
Diablo
Diablo II
Diablo III
Feel free to add anything I might've forgotten. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21331 Posts
Not sure I would classify D2 bosses are more mechanically challenging either, I mostly remember running away a lot trying not to get 2 shot. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
Many of the other rune words were also really good, and even in softcore could be swapped in and out (like tele to baal with enigma, swap to CoH or Fort to be really safe). However, some of the other rune words were pretty bad overall. Spirit/hoto were your only progression for caster weapon runewords. I would still play a lot of D2 remaster if/when it comes out though. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On November 14 2018 06:56 Manit0u wrote: No more skill trees - I get the idea that now you get all the skills and then customize with gear, but I'd rather take skills I want and tinker with them and not the gear Arcade style - the game is too fast-paced for this setting. In the end it all boils down to creating a build that's capable of speed-clearing rifts, there's no sense of danger too, you're just blasting through everything with wanton abandon Bit biased here. Skill trees/investment vs flexibility/respeccing is extremely subjective. I far prefer D3's toolkit for example, would not be a con for me. And games like this are *always* going to be about speed. D2 was too eventually, especially given static difficulty. This probably has more to do with general naivety back when D2 was fresh; "meta builds" and hyper optimization may have just been less prevalent (and accessible) because of how the internet and gaming as a whole has evolved in that decade+. You can still play D3 slowly/methodically/defensively as well, it just feels worse when footage and streams and such of people flying around and one-shotting everything is plastered everywhere you go looking. Not that I agree with everything else in the summary either, but these are some of the points that constantly come up as fact when they're very subjective | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12224 Posts
Another big D3 pro was not really having to play Tetris with your inventory. Early on in D2, at the low levels, you had to make conscious decisions about whether it was worth it to pick up a 2x4 or 2x3 item - even temporarily to reduce trips back to town - because inventory space was at such a premium. (e: I actually hated the simplified inventory system when I first played D3 because I thought it took a lot of decision friction away from the player, but after living with it, I could never go back) Definitely agreed about the monster resistances/immunities improving the depth in D2 over D3. Every class had somewhere in the game that they dreaded (except Hammerdins I guess, where only one enemy found in one out-of-the-way part of the game was truly immune). That made the world feel very cool and dangerous. This was especially true in Act 5 because it had random guest monsters from other Acts, so you never quite knew what would be waiting for you. That kinda leans into what I was saying before about individual resistances not really mattering in D3 whereas they were hugely important to manage in D2: it's true on the monster side as well as the player side. I mentioned this before but I much prefer the flexibility of D3's skills to the rigidity of D2's. Especially when you're first leveling up. In D3, you can find some item that increases your Fire damage, and change some of your skills to Fire variants to get extra damage, kind of optionally encouraging you to test out different skill combinations and break up the monotony. In D2, if you got an item that had +3 to Fire Wall but you didn't have Fire Wall and your skill build didn't call for it, you weren't going to expend a precious skill point on Fire Wall just to try it out: that investment is permanent and the item becomes functionally worthless to you (besides selling for probably max gold). | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
You get 1 in each difficulty from the first quest (Den of Evil), and then can also transmute a specific item in the late game to respec (I forgot the exact name/resources needed here). It still can be troublesome to quickly respec, but that change alone is really nice for going with a leveling build early on to make life easy, and then get an easy 2 respecs (normal/nightmare are free since easy to do, Hell is pretty easy but takes work due to immune mobs). | ||
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tomtoms
7 Posts
On November 14 2018 09:00 Excalibur_Z wrote: I think one big pro for D3 is the shared Stash. D2's Stash was really good, but players in these types of games are natural packrats, so it didn't hold enough (they later patched it to increase the storage space, but that still wasn't enough for some), and it resulted in "mule" characters and silly player behavior. The fact that the official D2 online strategy guide suggested transferring items between your characters by opening an online game then switching characters within 5 minutes before the server closed the game was very funny to me. D3 had a huge quality of life improvement in that regard (not to mention way, way more storage space!). Another big D3 pro was not really having to play Tetris with your inventory. Early on in D2, at the low levels, you had to make conscious decisions about whether it was worth it to pick up a 2x4 or 2x3 item - even temporarily to reduce trips back to town - because inventory space was at such a premium. (e: I actually hated the simplified inventory system when I first played D3 because I thought it took a lot of decision friction away from the player, but after living with it, I could never go back) Definitely agreed about the monster resistances/immunities improving the depth in D2 over D3. Every class had somewhere in the game that they dreaded (except Hammerdins I guess, where only one enemy found in one out-of-the-way part of the game was truly immune). That made the world feel very cool and dangerous. This was especially true in Act 5 because it had random guest monsters from other Acts, so you never quite knew what would be waiting for you. That kinda leans into what I was saying before about individual resistances not really mattering in D3 whereas they were hugely important to manage in D2: it's true on the monster side as well as the player side. I mentioned this before but I much prefer the flexibility of D3's skills to the rigidity of D2's. Especially when you're first leveling up. In D3, you can find some item that increases your Fire damage, and change some of your skills to Fire variants to get extra damage, kind of optionally encouraging you to test out different skill combinations and break up the monotony. In D2, if you got an item that had +3 to Fire Wall but you didn't have Fire Wall and your skill build didn't call for it, you weren't going to expend a precious skill point on Fire Wall just to try it out: that investment is permanent and the item becomes functionally worthless to you (besides selling for probably max gold). Diablo 3 had Monster Resistance. I dont see any threads begging for them to stay/come back. All it did was create frustrating moments. And the game already had quite alot of those. In fact, with Juggernaut Diablo 3 still has Resistance for lots of specs. It goes like that: "Well i guess i skip them". And thats pretty much it Going for a different build in Diablo 2: You are being "experimental". Going for a different build in Diablo 3: Pretty much worth a shit since you cant progress in Greater Rifts. Its just in your mind | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
I agree 100% with above post. You can play almost anything in T13 if you want to play around, or not have infinite scaling, or whatever. You usually get to play some random hybrid for a few hours at the start of season. I like d3 and basically can play it srsly for a couple months each year. I just tryhard every third or fourth season or something. I definitely agree they could do something more interesting for each season though. Even some sort of seasonal extra affix on rift guardians or whatever. something. A LOT of people never go above GR 70, and a quite small percentage go above 100. Rifting at 110+ is a completely different game. And if you don't like it, theres an active speedfarm meta anyways. For the record, I have also played a lot of Grim Dawn and highly recommend it if you want that type of arpg solo experience once in a while. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17182 Posts
On November 14 2018 09:53 Alventenie wrote: I see this mentioned a few times in the past few posts, but there is skill resets in D2 now. You get 1 in each difficulty from the first quest (Den of Evil), and then can also transmute a specific item in the late game to respec (I forgot the exact name/resources needed here). It still can be troublesome to quickly respec, but that change alone is really nice for going with a leveling build early on to make life easy, and then get an easy 2 respecs (normal/nightmare are free since easy to do, Hell is pretty easy but takes work due to immune mobs). I agree that free infinite respecs would be amazing for D2. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
If there will be a D2 remastered, which I hope there will be, my number one wish is for them to get rid of immunities in hell and find other ways to promote varied builds. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
Free infinite respecs? I don't like that. I like that you need to plan and make midterm and longterm choices, and live with what you picked for longterm in the meantime etc. Ideally in a really well built game, there may not really be choices that you can make which are complete trash (or unlikely), so worst case scenario you would end up with a character that's a bit weird and doesn't necessarily perform great but can still do its own thing? Now in D2 you get 3 free respecs per character, I think that's cool and good enough. But maybe I would like it even more if it wasn't free [For Example, if you respec you lose 5 Stats point or 1 Skill point? :D] I don't know for sure but I think, it feels pretty important that your character is defined by choices you made for it, and you can't just rewrite it without starting a new character. It's not just a "X" level "Y" class. You may have more than 1 character per class..You know what I wish they had done in D3, is inferno flat difficulty [they said they were doing that initially, they canceled these ideas to accomodate item scales for RMAH sales]. Say you start a session and you can go anywhere in inferno and it's always hard regardless of how strong your character is. If you aren't close to "max" power yet, maybe a lot of these monsters are too strong and you should run away. Maybe bosses including act bosses are in random locations, and you never know exactly what to expect. Random events, triggers, stuff to play around which all accross the game have comparable chances to drop comparable value loot or char progression rewards. This with mechanics as deep as D2 or better.. ^^ [and of course, mix pvp and PK into this, maybe even with associated rewards. Now it's a challenge to balance that pvp against pvm builds in a way thats not too unstable. In D2 it's not that stable at all I think lul. Challenging but should be doable.. wow does it but it has more simple basic mechanics..] | ||
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HolydaKing
21253 Posts
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On November 14 2018 23:23 HolydaKing wrote: I'm pretty sure immunities weren't always a thing in D2. IIRC there was a patch long time ago where they were added. I much prefered D2 before it, although that was a LONG time ago. huhu are you sure? I feel like there were immunities even back when it was just released starting from nightmare difficulty no? | ||
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HolydaKing
21253 Posts
On November 14 2018 23:26 ProMeTheus112 wrote: huhu are you sure? I feel like there were immunities even back when it was just released starting from nightmare difficulty no? I'm not so sure after finding nothing on the internet. Probably remembering wrong. I just remember my WW barb being OP as hell a long time ago, back when I didn't play online yet. Might have been immunities even then though. But I don't think they are good for games. Having to skip monsters or zones because of immunities or needing god tier items that break resistances makes little sense. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12224 Posts
On November 14 2018 23:23 HolydaKing wrote: I'm pretty sure immunities weren't always a thing in D2. IIRC there was a patch long time ago where they were added. I much prefered D2 before it, although that was a LONG time ago. Immunities got added in the Lord of Destruction expansion. Before then, it really was solo-element characters running everything. Of course, players simultaneously complained and cheered when immunities were added, because they affect each class differently based on their ability to diversify. Sorc clearly has 3 options available. Paladins effectively only had 2 (back when FoH was garbage, so no real Lightning opportunity) and Hammer wasn't very good (it later got the ability to pierce resistances and immunities for Demons and Undead, which is why it's so good now). Barbarians had only 2 (Warcry and Berserk are Magic). The expansion did buff those skills to try and balance out the introduction of immunities, but it was still rough going for many "traditional" builds, which was kind of the point. That's why it's somewhat interesting to me that D3 didn't have immunities, because every class has the opportunity to diversify their damage types simply based on the rune they apply to their skill. | ||
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