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The disconnect I see between people in this thread is that some people don't understand why it was such a slap in the face to the fanbase. it wasn't like this was just announced at BlizzCon it was the SOLE announcement for the property and it went LAST on the keynote address. They thought that a Chinese mobile game would be the thing to send their fans happy into the convention for all their followup events. Its the only decision they could make for announcing it at BlizzCon with how much exclusive exposure they get from the media and the fanbase but they effectively sold it to their hardcore fans as the only thing they would get that year from them and they should be happy about it.
The backlash isn't that they are selling out the ip to make a shitty Chinese mobile game its that they tried to sell it as a good thing to their hardcore fanbase. The hardcore fanbase is who they were pitching immortal to directly and it was the only thing they pitched to them. They admitted that they have "some diablo projects going on" but refused to even hint at any of them (even though diablo 2 remaster is as much of a lock as possible with the sc and wc3 remasters announced) instead of giving the entire fanbase only one thing to react to coming out of blizzcon. Of course, no one is happy they have nothing to be happy about.
Professional people who get paid to do this decided to put the thing they knew would have backlash on last. Whos dumb enough to think that bad news is the best thing to end your presentation on.
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Blizzard literally told people they didn’t have any big announcements for Diablo weeks before the show. All of this really sounds like people backfilling a justification for being outraged about a mobile game.
We all know they are making Diablo 4. It is real. Its happening. They don’t need to tell us it is happening.
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I guess that Blizzard (and EA with new C&C) have grossly overestimated the appeal of mobile games to their target audience.
I'm currently working for a company that deals with mobile ads and I know for a fact there's a shit ton of money in it. This appeals to the business. What they did wrong is take a look at numbers without full context. Sure, there are millions of people playing on mobile but they're mostly small kids and people who like social media games like Farmville. Not the kind of people who play Diablo...
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United States12252 Posts
On November 06 2018 04:54 Sermokala wrote:
The disconnect I see between people in this thread is that some people don't understand why it was such a slap in the face to the fanbase. it wasn't like this was just announced at BlizzCon it was the SOLE announcement for the property and it went LAST on the keynote address. They thought that a Chinese mobile game would be the thing to send their fans happy into the convention for all their followup events. Its the only decision they could make for announcing it at BlizzCon with how much exclusive exposure they get from the media and the fanbase but they effectively sold it to their hardcore fans as the only thing they would get that year from them and they should be happy about it.
The backlash isn't that they are selling out the ip to make a shitty Chinese mobile game its that they tried to sell it as a good thing to their hardcore fanbase. The hardcore fanbase is who they were pitching immortal to directly and it was the only thing they pitched to them. They admitted that they have "some diablo projects going on" but refused to even hint at any of them (even though diablo 2 remaster is as much of a lock as possible with the sc and wc3 remasters announced) instead of giving the entire fanbase only one thing to react to coming out of blizzcon. Of course, no one is happy they have nothing to be happy about.
Professional people who get paid to do this decided to put the thing they knew would have backlash on last. Whos dumb enough to think that bad news is the best thing to end your presentation on.
D2 Remaster has been going on for at least a year I would say. Their Careers page had a few openings for it around the time SC:R released in July 2017.
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On November 06 2018 05:05 Plansix wrote:
Blizzard literally told people they didn’t have any big announcements for Diablo weeks before the show. All of this really sounds like people backfilling a justification for being outraged about a mobile game.
We all know they are making Diablo 4. It is real. Its happening. They don’t need to tell us it is happening.
This is the most succinct way of describing how I feel about the whole thing. The backlash seems hyperbolic.
I mean it was hilariously dumb of them to announce it the way they did, or expect anything except the reception they got. I'm willing to rib Blizz on this for sure (and covering their asses when it comes to dislikes/negative reception/etc.)
But the degree of fan outrage over the whole thing feels so... dishonest idk.
If they had just released this in a few months with no prior warning or "ruining Blizzcon" or whatever, I don't think there'd even be a fraction of the criticism we're seeing now.
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Haven't really followed Blizzcon this year, but after reading the news it sounds like this was probably the worst one ever huh. Guess people already saw this coming as rumors of Diablo mobile were already floating around and Blizzard themselves told us to curb our expectations. Somebody on upper management must've really hated Wyatt to set him up to be the fall guy lol.
Glad I didn't bother with the virtual ticket this time. For those who actually wasted a trip and money to be there, I can only imagine how pissed off they are.
Guess the one good thing to come out of all this is the answer to the following question: Which is more disrespectful? A disgruntled fanbase, however niche, expressing their disapproval? Or game company aka Blizzard taking a giant dump on the faces of said fanbase? 
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On November 06 2018 05:25 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 05:05 Plansix wrote:
Blizzard literally told people they didn’t have any big announcements for Diablo weeks before the show. All of this really sounds like people backfilling a justification for being outraged about a mobile game.
We all know they are making Diablo 4. It is real. Its happening. They don’t need to tell us it is happening. This is the most succinct way of describing how I feel about the whole thing. The backlash seems hyperbolic. I mean it was hilariously dumb of them to announce it the way they did, or expect anything except the reception they got. I'm willing to rib Blizz on this for sure (and covering their asses when it comes to dislikes/negative reception/etc.) But the degree of fan outrage over the whole thing feels so... dishonest idk. If they had just released this in a few months with no prior warning or "ruining Blizzcon" or whatever, I don't think there'd even be a fraction of the criticism we're seeing now.
I’ve said it in other threads, but Blizzard’s fanbase is well outside the self titled hardcore PC gamer audience. From gay fans who have their own community around Overwatch. Or the Overwatch shipper community, which crosses over into the fanart and cos-play community. They are all big parts of what make up the Blizzard fandom and really didn’t blink twice about a mobile game.
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I doubt that was some sort of planned leak by Blizzard. Just something that the reporter was able to confirm after talking to other sources, likely at Blizcon.
It is really dumb that they pulled the announcement. Or that there is an announcement at all. We know the game exists. I know they are working some Starcrat 3 somewhere in Blizzard as well. And Warcraft 4 is also a thing in some way shape or form.
Video publishers are stupidly secretive and they just need to quit. It’s a dumb hype cycle for consumer products that we know they are making.
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On November 06 2018 05:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 05:25 Duka08 wrote:On November 06 2018 05:05 Plansix wrote:
Blizzard literally told people they didn’t have any big announcements for Diablo weeks before the show. All of this really sounds like people backfilling a justification for being outraged about a mobile game.
We all know they are making Diablo 4. It is real. Its happening. They don’t need to tell us it is happening. This is the most succinct way of describing how I feel about the whole thing. The backlash seems hyperbolic. I mean it was hilariously dumb of them to announce it the way they did, or expect anything except the reception they got. I'm willing to rib Blizz on this for sure (and covering their asses when it comes to dislikes/negative reception/etc.) But the degree of fan outrage over the whole thing feels so... dishonest idk. If they had just released this in a few months with no prior warning or "ruining Blizzcon" or whatever, I don't think there'd even be a fraction of the criticism we're seeing now. I’ve said it in other threads, but Blizzard’s fanbase is well outside the self titled hardcore PC gamer audience. From gay fans who have their own community around Overwatch. Or the Overwatch shipper community, which crosses over into the fanart and cos-play community. They are all big parts of what make up the Blizzard fandom and really didn’t blink twice about a mobile game.
Eh, I think that's true to some extent, but it's a multi-faceted audience.
Like I'm not filled with rage (mostly I find Blizzard's foibles hilarious), and if that's what they want to make whatever, but at the same time... like there's a lot of legitimate criticisms of Diablo 3 (theming a plot mostly) and continuing the franchise with a mobile game doesn't exactly inspire confidence on the course correcting and things improving.
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Blizzard’s writing is bad and has been bad for a long while. They make great characters and the best off brand GI Joe I’ve seen in decades, but all their dialog isn’t even at late 1990s cartoon levels. They just need new blood in the writing room and to stop whoever over there is obsessed with turning everything into anime.
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On November 06 2018 06:03 Plansix wrote:
They just need new blood in the writing room and to stop whoever over there is obsessed with turning everything into anime.
I was curious if this would happen a bit when Metzen and some others left, but then we got a WoW story arc (Sylvanas) that people were almost as critical of as this Diablo announcement shit lol
It's a weird world over there right now
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On November 06 2018 05:05 Plansix wrote:We all know they are making Diablo 4. It is real. Its happening. They don’t need to tell us it is happening.
Based on my experience on fansites, Blizzard really needs to spell things out for their fans
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On November 06 2018 06:03 Plansix wrote:
Blizzard’s writing is bad and has been bad for a long while. They make great characters and the best off brand GI Joe I’ve seen in decades, but all their dialog isn’t even at late 1990s cartoon levels. They just need new blood in the writing room and to stop whoever over there is obsessed with turning everything into anime.
Or at least realize "hey if we don't SAY EVERYTHING in pain staking detail" then our shit writing at least leaves enough room for people to make a good narrative. Almost like they should just be doing the thing that has made OW a narrative juggernaut more broadly.
The whole reason Diablo 1 and 2 had 'good' stories was because they left everything relatively vague, open and centered the stories one just one compelling core idea and followed that through.
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On November 06 2018 05:51 Plansix wrote:
I doubt that was some sort of planned leak by Blizzard. Just something that the reporter was able to confirm after talking to other sources, likely at Blizcon.
It is really dumb that they pulled the announcement. Or that there is an announcement at all. We know the game exists. I know they are working some Starcrat 3 somewhere in Blizzard as well. And Warcraft 4 is also a thing in some way shape or form.
Video publishers are stupidly secretive and they just need to quit. It’s a dumb hype cycle for consumer products that we know they are making.
The point is that right now they can trash it and come up with a completely different concept (which would be the 3rd time apparently). Whereas if they announce it, people get excited for THIS Diablo 4, and then get upset when it gets changed. And given the apparenlty incredible butthurt entitlement of the Diablo hardcore fans, that is something they want to avoid.
I still want my Warcraft adventure game, btw. AND Starcraft: Nova.
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On November 06 2018 06:03 Plansix wrote:
Blizzard’s writing is bad and has been bad for a long while. They make great characters and the best off brand GI Joe I’ve seen in decades, but all their dialog isn’t even at late 1990s cartoon levels. They just need new blood in the writing room and to stop whoever over there is obsessed with turning everything into anime.
I dunno. SC2 story was bad, and Overwatch doesn't have one. I haven't played WoW in years, but Cataclysm's story was actually quite strong, even if the gameplay was crap. Wrath was really fantastic from a storytelling point of view. Burning Crusade was meh. Vanilla was good. Diablo 3 was decent (but following on from Diablo 2 was not an easy task), and RoS was good.
And for pre-WoW games? SC was fantastic, as was BW, WC3 was good. Burning Crusade was decent. WC1 didn't have a story worth talking about and WC2 was just a bad storytelling medium: the story itself, as fleshed out through accompanying books, comics and WoW was of course good.
So I don't think Blizzard's writing has gotten worse. It's just that post-SC people expect everything to be at that level. And it never was before and probably won't be again.
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On November 06 2018 06:20 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 06:03 Plansix wrote:
Blizzard’s writing is bad and has been bad for a long while. They make great characters and the best off brand GI Joe I’ve seen in decades, but all their dialog isn’t even at late 1990s cartoon levels. They just need new blood in the writing room and to stop whoever over there is obsessed with turning everything into anime. Or at least realize "hey if we don't SAY EVERYTHING in pain staking detail" then our shit writing at least leaves enough room for people to make a good narrative. Almost like they should just be doing the thing that has made OW a narrative juggernaut more broadly. The whole reason Diablo 1 and 2 had 'good' stories was because they left everything relatively vague, open and centered the stories one just one compelling core idea and followed that through.
To be honest, much like Starcraft prime, those stories required the players to do a lot of work to make them “good”. They are the bare bones story telling of the era where were filled in the blanks to create more drama that ever really exists. Diablo 1 was “there is a devil man under this town, he looks like he fell off of a Slayer album cover. Why? Here is some off brand Poe, but about the devil in this gemstone” And Diablo 2 was “Yo, that man who got a devil in him went that way. And man he traveled really god damn far. And his brother is a dick.”
A lot of the stuff I thought was good in my late teens and early 20s turned out to be the Matrix. Totally fun, but to self serious. Lacking the honesty of John Wick that they are, in fact, just dumb fun.
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On November 06 2018 06:43 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 06:03 Plansix wrote:
Blizzard’s writing is bad and has been bad for a long while. They make great characters and the best off brand GI Joe I’ve seen in decades, but all their dialog isn’t even at late 1990s cartoon levels. They just need new blood in the writing room and to stop whoever over there is obsessed with turning everything into anime. I dunno. SC2 story was bad, and Overwatch doesn't have one. I haven't played WoW in years, but Cataclysm's story was actually quite strong, even if the gameplay was crap. Wrath was really fantastic from a storytelling point of view. Burning Crusade was meh. Vanilla was good. Diablo 3 was decent (but following on from Diablo 2 was not an easy task), and RoS was good. And for pre-WoW games? SC was fantastic, as was BW, WC3 was good. Burning Crusade was decent. WC1 didn't have a story worth talking about and WC2 was just a bad storytelling medium: the story itself, as fleshed out through accompanying books, comics and WoW was of course good. So I don't think Blizzard's writing has gotten worse. It's just that post-SC people expect everything to be at that level. And it never was before and probably won't be again.
pre-WoW is pretty much a different era for Blizzard writing (and design in general). But generally SC, BW, Diablo, Diablo 2, and WC3 are all considered to have good writing, or at least a compelling plot with minimal bad writing.
idk how to judge WoW writing. I played vanilla and TBC and there *was* writing, but it's a MMO where you skip most of it and the rest is still largely forgettable.
To be honest, much like Starcraft prime, those stories required the players to do a lot of work to make them “good”. They are the bare bones story telling of the era where were filled in the blanks to create more drama that ever really exists. Diablo 1 was “there is a devil man under this town, he looks like he fell off of a Slayer album cover. Why? Here is some off brand Poe, but about the devil in this gemstone” And Diablo 2 was “Yo, that man who got a devil in him went that way. And man he traveled really god damn far. And his brother is a dick.
That's selling them short I think. Diablo 1 had a lot of incidental storytelling between King Leoric, Archbishop Lazarus, Cain, and Albrecht. Diablo 2 fleshed out the soul gems and added the plot with Baal, Tyreal, and Marius which was relatively compelling.
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Blizzard and good writing ? Are you for real ? From the very begining their writing was bad and cheesy. The lore was pretty simple and shallow. Their lore books were pretty terrible, too(+ Show Spoiler +I still can remember trying to get to the end of one of their diablo books... Horrible experience.
Also because of that the story of that new "game" doesn't matter. They can hire Stephen King to write their stories, still doesn't matter. I expect good gameplay from them and mobile cash grab won't cut it.
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Warcraft is off brand Warhammer, but the Orcs are the Noble Savage trope because of DEMON MAGIC(Magic voice) they can make heel turns any time they want. The narrative of them being an invading force due to demons chasing them off their home world is an interested twist. And it all ends when they turn the magic tree into a super powered bug zapper, but for demons. Until those demons come back, again. Two more times. Maybe three. Also there are these far east demons and pandas.
All of Blizzard’s narratives are serviceable and their worlds are fun. It is as over the top as its source material, Warhammer, but with less cynicism and over the top misogyny. I've always enjoyed it, but for the character arcs and pro-wrestling style heel turns, never for its narrative themes.
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EPT
