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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
I feel like this episode was really disappointing.
Sam's story drives me nuts, I want him to die off and stop wasting precious screen time. And my rage is also with everyone for the dagger.
I can't find which part of Season 1 Melissandre used her (same?) spell to kill important targets..can anyone summarize or pin-point to me?
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On May 20 2013 21:07 GhostOwl wrote:
I feel like this episode was really disappointing.
Sam's story drives me nuts, I want him to die off and stop wasting precious screen time. And my rage is also with everyone for the dagger.
I can't find which part of Season 1 Melissandre used her (same?) spell to kill important targets..can anyone summarize or pin-point to me?
She didn't. She had sex with Stannis, and got pregnant with a shadow baby. Then gave birth to that shadow of Stannis and had him take out Renly.
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The current ranking of interesting viewpoints to me:
1. Danery's
2. Tywin / King's Landing Politics / Tyrion
3. Jaime
4. Arya
5. Jon Snow
6. Robb
7. Theon
8. Stannis
9. Sam
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If Stannis only needed Gendry's blood, why did he not just take it by force? Why have Melisandre seduce him at first and then shackle and force him anyway?
Also, what's with the long-haired guy of the Second Sons and his strange obsession with beauty? Is he supposed to be handsome and badass enough to have a chance with Daenerys? 'Cause he's neither. I find him rather creepy.
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On May 20 2013 19:31 Xahhk wrote:
Sansa is the least convincing 14 year old I have ever seen (6 foot 2, 1.5x broader than Joffrey etc). I had been going on the assumption that they aged her up to 16 at least.
I believe she is 17 years old in real life
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On May 20 2013 21:15 Scorch wrote:If Stannis only needed Gendry's blood, why did he not just take it by force? Why have Melisandre seduce him at first and then shackle and force him anyway? Did you not hear the conversation between Stannis and Melisandre about exactly this issue?
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On May 20 2013 21:18 Thorakh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 21:15 Scorch wrote:If Stannis only needed Gendry's blood, why did he not just take it by force? Why have Melisandre seduce him at first and then shackle and force him anyway? Did you not hear the conversation between Stannis and Melisandre about exactly this issue?
Indeed, I must have missed it the first time. Second time was the charm 
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On May 20 2013 21:15 Scorch wrote:
Also, what's with the long-haired guy of the Second Sons and his strange obsession with beauty? Is he supposed to be handsome and badass enough to have a chance with Daenerys? 'Cause he's neither. I find him rather creepy.
If you are girl you lie and if you are a guy then you are jealous 
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On May 20 2013 18:37 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 18:11 Aelfric wrote:On May 20 2013 18:07 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 16:37 Aelfric wrote:On May 20 2013 16:06 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 15:51 albis wrote:
dany + 2000men. needs a bit better guard detail though. True on the guards, but I hear Braavosi are slippery (see Syrio, Jaquen). I wouldn't give the Unsullied too hard a time. Most important than having 2000 men, Dany now has heavy cavalry. Added to her spearmen, dragons, and the light cavalry she's probably planning on acquiring from the Dothraki, she's looking at a very well balanced force. Smaller than the other Westerosi armies, but better trained and more cohesive. And remember that a smaller army is not always a disadvantage, particularly with the supply-line problems that plagued middle-age armies. An elite 10,000 man force might stand a good chance against 60,000 Lannisters who have to choose between staying near supply hubs or splitting into smaller hosts. Never mind the issues of discipline and morale. Methinks men are braver when dragons fight with them, rather than against them. Which is the bigger number, five or one ? Lol. Except that she was wrong. She would have died that night had her enemies not fought amongst themselves. Numbers aren't everything, even in a siege situation like she faced, where they matter more. In pre-modern battles, relatively few men were actually killed while both forces are coherently fighting. Most of the battle casualties came during the rout, which is why motivated and disciplined forces were consistently able to beat forces multiples of their size. If you're tougher, they break first, and then they die en masse. Never mind that most casualties weren't battle casualties at all, but were deaths due to hunger, thirst, and disease. The great military leaders of the ancient world and middle ages weren't great because of "tactics" of any kind... they were great because they could both a) inspire loyalty b) keep troops fed, watered, and largely healthy Dany has those down. The Great Houses of Westeros, not so much. If she is defeated at this point, it will have to come from a mistake she makes... probably out of hubris. You don't read much do you? Plenty, I assure you. But high fantasy often asks to be analyzed like history, rather than literature, so I try to oblige. For a literary view: Dany currently has a major plot riding on her, 4 major accessory characters (none of whom would have any purpose if she kicked it or lost her power), 2 entire cultures relevant only to her. All of this makes her unkillable/beatable for the time being. However, Martin is explicitly setting out to create a counterpoint to what he sees as more traditional high fantasy, and she is so much like a classic fantasy hero that her chances of ultimate victory are low. Furthermore, she has ascended from near-slavery to near-godhood, and her trajectory from here is unclear. To remain an interesting character, she will have to develop in one way or another, perhaps as a result of factionalism within her ranks. My guess is that she will be the season protagonist of next season. Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 18:19 SergioCQH wrote:On May 20 2013 18:07 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 16:37 Aelfric wrote:On May 20 2013 16:06 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 15:51 albis wrote:
dany + 2000men. needs a bit better guard detail though. True on the guards, but I hear Braavosi are slippery (see Syrio, Jaquen). I wouldn't give the Unsullied too hard a time. Most important than having 2000 men, Dany now has heavy cavalry. Added to her spearmen, dragons, and the light cavalry she's probably planning on acquiring from the Dothraki, she's looking at a very well balanced force. Smaller than the other Westerosi armies, but better trained and more cohesive. And remember that a smaller army is not always a disadvantage, particularly with the supply-line problems that plagued middle-age armies. An elite 10,000 man force might stand a good chance against 60,000 Lannisters who have to choose between staying near supply hubs or splitting into smaller hosts. Never mind the issues of discipline and morale. Methinks men are braver when dragons fight with them, rather than against them. Which is the bigger number, five or one ? Lol. Except that she was wrong. She would have died that night had her enemies not fought amongst themselves. Numbers aren't everything, even in a siege situation like she faced, where they matter more. In pre-modern battles, relatively few men were actually killed while both forces are coherently fighting. Most of the battle casualties came during the rout, which is why motivated and disciplined forces were consistently able to beat forces multiples of their size. If you're tougher, they break first, and then they die en masse. Never mind that most casualties weren't battle casualties at all, but were deaths due to hunger, thirst, and disease. The great military leaders of the ancient world and middle ages weren't great because of "tactics" of any kind... they were great because they could both a) inspire loyalty b) keep troops fed, watered, and largely healthy Dany has those down. The Great Houses of Westeros, not so much. If she is defeated at this point, it will have to come from a mistake she makes... probably out of hubris. But tactics can play a large role in affecting troop morale. Enveloping the enemy like Hannibal did at Cannae can reduce their fighting strength. Great generals knew how to put their troops into positions where their fighting spirit would be high. A fair point. But the Punic Wars are an odd case: highly professional forces on both sides for several of the key engagements. Scipio and Hannibal had opportunities to use tactics in ways that were simply not available to, say, any army in the Crusades, or even the War of the Roses. Dany probably can employ tactics (presumably commanded by Selmy or Worm) given her force's modernesque discipline and combined arms, while the average Westerosi army will be, like the average medieval army, little more than a heavily armed mob.
GoT is not really high fantasy, its more low fantasy (but it is debatable and irrelevant i suppose)
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On May 20 2013 21:28 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 21:15 Scorch wrote:
Also, what's with the long-haired guy of the Second Sons and his strange obsession with beauty? Is he supposed to be handsome and badass enough to have a chance with Daenerys? 'Cause he's neither. I find him rather creepy. If you are girl you lie and if you are a guy then you are jealous
as a bi-sexual male, all i can say on this subject matter is that he is no Khal Drogo and thats for sure.
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On May 20 2013 21:07 GhostOwl wrote:
I feel like this episode was really disappointing.
Sam's story drives me nuts, I want him to die off and stop wasting precious screen time. And my rage is also with everyone for the dagger.
I can't find which part of Season 1 Melissandre used her (same?) spell to kill important targets..can anyone summarize or pin-point to me?
sams story line is pretty meagre in the series, its too bad.
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On May 20 2013 22:28 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 21:28 -Archangel- wrote:On May 20 2013 21:15 Scorch wrote:
Also, what's with the long-haired guy of the Second Sons and his strange obsession with beauty? Is he supposed to be handsome and badass enough to have a chance with Daenerys? 'Cause he's neither. I find him rather creepy. If you are girl you lie and if you are a guy then you are jealous as a bi-sexual male, all i can say on this subject matter is that he is no Khal Drogo and thats for sure.
Only because we didn't see him slaughter this two captains in a cool manner Drogo would.
I am sure then people would be talking about if he is better then Jamie was at his top form at this moment on these forums
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To be honest i find Sam quite adorable and very well-acted, but that girl Gilly drives me nuts. cant she ever whipe that cunty look from her face?
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On May 20 2013 22:36 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 22:28 sc2holar wrote:On May 20 2013 21:28 -Archangel- wrote:On May 20 2013 21:15 Scorch wrote:
Also, what's with the long-haired guy of the Second Sons and his strange obsession with beauty? Is he supposed to be handsome and badass enough to have a chance with Daenerys? 'Cause he's neither. I find him rather creepy. If you are girl you lie and if you are a guy then you are jealous as a bi-sexual male, all i can say on this subject matter is that he is no Khal Drogo and thats for sure. Only because we didn't see him slaughter this two captains in a cool manner Drogo would. I am sure then people would be talking about if he is better then Jamie was at his top form at this moment on these forums
i was talking about looks, gore and violence dont turn me on. this smiling axl rose wannabe aint got nothing on Drogos physique and epic macho Dothraki tounge.
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MOD EDIT: Removed spoilers
User was temp banned for this post.
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yeah I don't find Daario too attractive either.
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I did not think that Sam is capable of bravery. I'm positively surprised. It's weird that people in this thread call these walkers weak while they can shatter swords with their bare hands.
I hope Greyjoy, Robb and Joffrey won't die just because red woman sucked some bastard blood. It would be completely overpowered. I'm also surprised that Stannis picked Balon Greyjoy over Mace(?) Tyrell or Tywin.
Dany is incredibly lucky since Drogo died. I'm starting to belive some sort of divine power is intentionally helping her just like the Lord of Light supports Melisandre. Magic trees need to step up and do something more than looking weird and being huge crow magnets or they'll lose their belivers soon. For a moment I thought the tree will somehow defend Sam and his companions.
Everything about the wedding was hillarious. I couldn't stop smiling since Sansa entered the shrine. Joffrey is close to reaching perfection in being a dick. I knew Tyrion won't touch Sansa and it seems like none of the Lannisters will have a baby anytime soon.
Some predictions: + Show Spoiler +Something big is going to happen in Frey's castle. Robb will figure out that Bolton released Jamie sooner or later and he won't be happy about it. Maybe he won't behead another of his commanders but something needs to be done. Perhaps Bolton has something up his sleeve because I have no idea how he is going to explain himself. Secondly Arya is coming to the Twins too and knowing her luck, nothing good is going to happen. Lastly Stannis just cursed Robb so we may see another spectre. If that's the case then Catelyn could go crazy because she saw the first one too. I just hope Robb won't die because a drop of bastard blood shouldn't be enough to summon "imba" demons
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On May 20 2013 22:56 Gene wrote:
yeah I don't find Daario too attractive either.
he is certainly good looking, but neither his appearance nor title as a sellsword captain makes him worthy of the Blood of the Dragon.
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On May 20 2013 21:52 deth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 18:37 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 18:11 Aelfric wrote:On May 20 2013 18:07 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 16:37 Aelfric wrote:On May 20 2013 16:06 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 15:51 albis wrote:
dany + 2000men. needs a bit better guard detail though. True on the guards, but I hear Braavosi are slippery (see Syrio, Jaquen). I wouldn't give the Unsullied too hard a time. Most important than having 2000 men, Dany now has heavy cavalry. Added to her spearmen, dragons, and the light cavalry she's probably planning on acquiring from the Dothraki, she's looking at a very well balanced force. Smaller than the other Westerosi armies, but better trained and more cohesive. And remember that a smaller army is not always a disadvantage, particularly with the supply-line problems that plagued middle-age armies. An elite 10,000 man force might stand a good chance against 60,000 Lannisters who have to choose between staying near supply hubs or splitting into smaller hosts. Never mind the issues of discipline and morale. Methinks men are braver when dragons fight with them, rather than against them. Which is the bigger number, five or one ? Lol. Except that she was wrong. She would have died that night had her enemies not fought amongst themselves. Numbers aren't everything, even in a siege situation like she faced, where they matter more. In pre-modern battles, relatively few men were actually killed while both forces are coherently fighting. Most of the battle casualties came during the rout, which is why motivated and disciplined forces were consistently able to beat forces multiples of their size. If you're tougher, they break first, and then they die en masse. Never mind that most casualties weren't battle casualties at all, but were deaths due to hunger, thirst, and disease. The great military leaders of the ancient world and middle ages weren't great because of "tactics" of any kind... they were great because they could both a) inspire loyalty b) keep troops fed, watered, and largely healthy Dany has those down. The Great Houses of Westeros, not so much. If she is defeated at this point, it will have to come from a mistake she makes... probably out of hubris. You don't read much do you? Plenty, I assure you. But high fantasy often asks to be analyzed like history, rather than literature, so I try to oblige. For a literary view: Dany currently has a major plot riding on her, 4 major accessory characters (none of whom would have any purpose if she kicked it or lost her power), 2 entire cultures relevant only to her. All of this makes her unkillable/beatable for the time being. However, Martin is explicitly setting out to create a counterpoint to what he sees as more traditional high fantasy, and she is so much like a classic fantasy hero that her chances of ultimate victory are low. Furthermore, she has ascended from near-slavery to near-godhood, and her trajectory from here is unclear. To remain an interesting character, she will have to develop in one way or another, perhaps as a result of factionalism within her ranks. My guess is that she will be the season protagonist of next season. On May 20 2013 18:19 SergioCQH wrote:On May 20 2013 18:07 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 16:37 Aelfric wrote:On May 20 2013 16:06 Yoav wrote:On May 20 2013 15:51 albis wrote:
dany + 2000men. needs a bit better guard detail though. True on the guards, but I hear Braavosi are slippery (see Syrio, Jaquen). I wouldn't give the Unsullied too hard a time. Most important than having 2000 men, Dany now has heavy cavalry. Added to her spearmen, dragons, and the light cavalry she's probably planning on acquiring from the Dothraki, she's looking at a very well balanced force. Smaller than the other Westerosi armies, but better trained and more cohesive. And remember that a smaller army is not always a disadvantage, particularly with the supply-line problems that plagued middle-age armies. An elite 10,000 man force might stand a good chance against 60,000 Lannisters who have to choose between staying near supply hubs or splitting into smaller hosts. Never mind the issues of discipline and morale. Methinks men are braver when dragons fight with them, rather than against them. Which is the bigger number, five or one ? Lol. Except that she was wrong. She would have died that night had her enemies not fought amongst themselves. Numbers aren't everything, even in a siege situation like she faced, where they matter more. In pre-modern battles, relatively few men were actually killed while both forces are coherently fighting. Most of the battle casualties came during the rout, which is why motivated and disciplined forces were consistently able to beat forces multiples of their size. If you're tougher, they break first, and then they die en masse. Never mind that most casualties weren't battle casualties at all, but were deaths due to hunger, thirst, and disease. The great military leaders of the ancient world and middle ages weren't great because of "tactics" of any kind... they were great because they could both a) inspire loyalty b) keep troops fed, watered, and largely healthy Dany has those down. The Great Houses of Westeros, not so much. If she is defeated at this point, it will have to come from a mistake she makes... probably out of hubris. But tactics can play a large role in affecting troop morale. Enveloping the enemy like Hannibal did at Cannae can reduce their fighting strength. Great generals knew how to put their troops into positions where their fighting spirit would be high. A fair point. But the Punic Wars are an odd case: highly professional forces on both sides for several of the key engagements. Scipio and Hannibal had opportunities to use tactics in ways that were simply not available to, say, any army in the Crusades, or even the War of the Roses. Dany probably can employ tactics (presumably commanded by Selmy or Worm) given her force's modernesque discipline and combined arms, while the average Westerosi army will be, like the average medieval army, little more than a heavily armed mob. GoT is not really high fantasy, its more low fantasy (but it is debatable and irrelevant i suppose)
The GoT universe is a mixed bag.
It USED to be high fantasy with dragons and fireballs and blood magic and all that. But it's all disappeared. However, with the return of the dragons and shit when our story begins people are starting to rediscover more subtle forms of magic. I don't think it's much unknown that the magical elements of the story have been drastically increasing since Season 1. It's basically a High Fantasy world stuck in Low Fantasy conditions.
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Sent: + Show Spoiler +if burning a leech containing the blood of a kings bastard offspring could kill people hundreds of miles away, i strongly doubt they would have gone with the shadow baby method to kill off renly. remember that melissandrae had to travel with davos to get within proximity of renlys camp in order to pull it off that time. IF something happens to either of those "ursurper kings", my bet is that she has simply seen it in the flames and now sees a chance to take credit for it to silence davos and any other doubters.
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EPT
