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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 30 2013 04:47 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:24 Sub40APM wrote:On April 30 2013 04:12 serum321 wrote:On April 30 2013 03:42 Sub40APM wrote:
Loyalty seems like such a weird thing in Game of Thrones. Why would Kastark men stay loyal to their Lord if that Lord betrayed their other Lord? Youd think they'd be relieved that they were no longer commanded by a mentally unstable man. But like others said, the fact that Robb screws over a key ally for a random field medic makes all his grand standing about honor hilarious hypocritical. Not to mention his weird decision to just keep marching around down South. Go home Robb, if your men disperse then so what? The South cant invade the North, especially not in the Middle of Winter. So you already won. "Winning" would be taking Joffrey's head for taking Ned's head, it was never about becoming king and/or gaining some form of independence. Robb even says something to the effect that the war used to have purpose and now they're all just floundering around. he started the war to free his dad. once his dad was dead, his lords declared him King in the North and he took that crown. So he effectively is fighting for independence. And in fact he is effectively independent. Which is why the war part of the show is confusing right now -- there is literally no reason for the Starks not to just sit back and defend and win every battle (because the show has made it clear that Robb can defeated any combination of Lannister troops thrown at him). Well, there is one reason, the writer of the book needs to keep up with his "this is serious work because all the good guys get screwed over" theme and so Robb has to be the one that looks like he is stuck in a morass instead of the Lannisters (how is Joffrey relevant to any of the Kingdoms? Literally everyone has either declared independence or war on the king or is neutral, which is like independence!) Reasons to keep fighting 1. The Lannisters have Sansa (And Robb thinks they have Arya) 2. Robb knows that Joffrey was born of incest between Jaime and Cersei and therefore is not the rightful King. Also if he retreats he will likely never get justice for his father's death.
Robb already said he cant take King's Landing. So at best he is now fighting for a draw and being his own king. His demands to the Lannisters were (a) give me back our dead and my sisters and (b) we are independent when he presented them to that Lannister courier. So obviously (a) isnt going to happen, but he clearly doesnt mind making sacrifices so its onto (b).
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On April 30 2013 04:40 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:36 nitram wrote:
Its starting to seem like all these religions are really magic.
Wildlings follow the same religion as the Northern men and they have that same animal ability.
The fire religion has all that stuff we've been seeing lately The Seven and The Drowned God have to pick up the slack if they want to remain competitive. So far we've only seen words from them.
To be fair, there MIGHT have been something from the Seven in season 1. Remember how in this season Catlyn (who believes in the Seven) drew attention to that dream-catcher thing? In season one she makes one of those for Bran and when Lady dies, Bran awakes. Now, that could be the Old Gods, a coincidence, some other force, or an act from the Seven. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Seven don't really exist and never did. BUT, if they did, I could see that being their doing.
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Hey guys quick question, I don't live in the States and therefore can't see the episodes when they air, but at this time there is usually an episode up on various torrent sites. Is there no new episode for this week? Episode 5?
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On April 30 2013 04:53 JethroSC wrote:
Hey guys quick question, I don't live in the States and therefore can't see the episodes when they air, but at this time there is usually an episode up on various torrent sites. Is there no new episode for this week? Episode 5?
It's up on a major torrent site. Has been up for a few hours already.
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On April 30 2013 04:50 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:40 Zane wrote:On April 30 2013 04:36 nitram wrote:
Its starting to seem like all these religions are really magic.
Wildlings follow the same religion as the Northern men and they have that same animal ability.
The fire religion has all that stuff we've been seeing lately The Seven and The Drowned God have to pick up the slack if they want to remain competitive. So far we've only seen words from them. To be fair, there MIGHT have been something from the Seven in season 1. Remember how in this season Catlyn (who believes in the Seven) drew attention to that dream-catcher thing? In season one she makes one of those for Bran and when Lady dies, Bran awakes. Now, that could be the Old Gods, a coincidence, some other force, or an act from the Seven. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Seven don't really exist and never did. BUT, if they did, I could see that being their doing.
Again I really think it makes more sense not to look at religions as ways of magic, but to look at religion as ways of explaining things people don't understand (in this case, magic), which is really where it all began for humans anyway.
ie, Why doesn't the sky fall on us? Well there's a giant named Atlas holding it up.
How did cutting yourself make your sword catch on fire? Well there's a fire God you can pray to.
So, yes, the dreamcatcher Catlyn made could be some kind of magic passed down in her family, etc
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On April 30 2013 04:45 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:25 karazax wrote:On April 30 2013 04:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:10 Zane wrote:
Jaime is right. Ned wouldn't have listened. He didn't listen to the story of the deserter who saw the White Walkers, he just executed him. Dealing in absolutes makes Starks terrible rulers. Ned Stark was a terrible ruler? He was beloved by all his vassals and ran the North perfectly fine. Ned was portrayed as one of the best rulers in the show so far (maybe you could argue Tywin or Tyrion is "better", but that's up for debate). I'd say the Starks are good rulers as long as they are completely in charge, but terrible politicians. "bad" at the Game of Thrones =p That's the nature of the game though. You can't be honorable/honest and still be good at the Game of Thrones because the very nature of the Game necessitates deception and the use of shady tactics. Playing the Game of Thrones is completely different from being a ruler though. like someone else said, they just have bad luck and the lannisters have good luck. in other words, the author went out of his way to clown the Starks. Look at all these ways: What were the odds that a boar would kill a drunken Robert, what if they didnt find a boar before Robert passed out from being drunk, came home, and Ned reports to him about the Lanisters? Thats it, gg house lanister. What are the odds that Robb's mom didnt bring Robb's wife from House Frey with them on campaign to make sure her horny 16 year old didnt do something retarded like marry a nobody from nowhere and thus fundamentally weaken House Stark? What if Bran Stark was warned about a random band of Ironman marching all the way from the ocean to his castle (look at the map, there is nowhere for the Ironborn to park their boat, so they hiked for days just to get to Winterfell. And no one in the North warned Bran about it??!) What if the men that Bran sent to fight the Northmen away from the Castle didnt stupidly surrender (there were still a couple hundred of them!) but scaled the same walls and captured the castle that was lightly guarded by pirates who have no idea where the secret passages are? What if the Tyrells listend to their wise grandma, sat back in high garden and let the Baratheons slaughter the Lannisters and then do whatever they want since they would be the richest kingdom and also the only one with lots of food for the Winter? What if the Tully women werent all retarded and the Vale joined the Starks and Riverun, now its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever Joff had around kings landing for the opening stages of the war and the Tyrells no matter how greedy all of the sudden still decide to sit it out? What if Tyrion wasnt a genius defensive general and simple decided to take his money and run, Tywin would arrive to a sacked kings' landing for sure. What if the greatest sell sword didnt randomly stay at the hotel were Tyrion is being held, doenst go to the vale and doesnt fight for Tyrion so Tyrion gets thrown out of the mooncell/killed in a fight and therefore the Value *has* to join House Stark/River Run in the war and again its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever is around King's Landing. There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way, the way the tv show showed, that the Lannisters had a chance. Because, again, otherwise the story is over and the writer doesnt get to pretend he is 'serious' because good guys always die and badguys can recover from any kind of mishap.
I think that's a little unfair to say. It's easy to come up with hypothetical changes that would turn everything on it's head. For example, I'll pick one of yours.
"What if the Tully women weren't all retarded and the Vale joined against the Lannisters"
Well, what is Joffrey wasn't retarded?
When you say "There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way that the Lannisters had a chance", you're just being dishonest. There are an infinite number of ways in which either side could win. Why didn't you mention this one?
"If Ned hadn't been so honorable, he would have just listened to Littlefinger in S1 and ousted the Lannisters that way"
It's just pointless. It wasn't bad luck that lost Ned his head. Sure, it didn't help, but Ned was just bad at the Game of Thrones. When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. Being honest and honorable is incompatible with succeeding at the Game of Thrones because it's like trying to fight with both hands tied behind your back against the other guy who isn't going to hold back.
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On April 30 2013 05:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:45 Sub40APM wrote:On April 30 2013 04:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:25 karazax wrote:On April 30 2013 04:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:10 Zane wrote:
Jaime is right. Ned wouldn't have listened. He didn't listen to the story of the deserter who saw the White Walkers, he just executed him. Dealing in absolutes makes Starks terrible rulers. Ned Stark was a terrible ruler? He was beloved by all his vassals and ran the North perfectly fine. Ned was portrayed as one of the best rulers in the show so far (maybe you could argue Tywin or Tyrion is "better", but that's up for debate). I'd say the Starks are good rulers as long as they are completely in charge, but terrible politicians. "bad" at the Game of Thrones =p That's the nature of the game though. You can't be honorable/honest and still be good at the Game of Thrones because the very nature of the Game necessitates deception and the use of shady tactics. Playing the Game of Thrones is completely different from being a ruler though. like someone else said, they just have bad luck and the lannisters have good luck. in other words, the author went out of his way to clown the Starks. Look at all these ways: What were the odds that a boar would kill a drunken Robert, what if they didnt find a boar before Robert passed out from being drunk, came home, and Ned reports to him about the Lanisters? Thats it, gg house lanister. What are the odds that Robb's mom didnt bring Robb's wife from House Frey with them on campaign to make sure her horny 16 year old didnt do something retarded like marry a nobody from nowhere and thus fundamentally weaken House Stark? What if Bran Stark was warned about a random band of Ironman marching all the way from the ocean to his castle (look at the map, there is nowhere for the Ironborn to park their boat, so they hiked for days just to get to Winterfell. And no one in the North warned Bran about it??!) What if the men that Bran sent to fight the Northmen away from the Castle didnt stupidly surrender (there were still a couple hundred of them!) but scaled the same walls and captured the castle that was lightly guarded by pirates who have no idea where the secret passages are? What if the Tyrells listend to their wise grandma, sat back in high garden and let the Baratheons slaughter the Lannisters and then do whatever they want since they would be the richest kingdom and also the only one with lots of food for the Winter? What if the Tully women werent all retarded and the Vale joined the Starks and Riverun, now its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever Joff had around kings landing for the opening stages of the war and the Tyrells no matter how greedy all of the sudden still decide to sit it out? What if Tyrion wasnt a genius defensive general and simple decided to take his money and run, Tywin would arrive to a sacked kings' landing for sure. What if the greatest sell sword didnt randomly stay at the hotel were Tyrion is being held, doenst go to the vale and doesnt fight for Tyrion so Tyrion gets thrown out of the mooncell/killed in a fight and therefore the Value *has* to join House Stark/River Run in the war and again its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever is around King's Landing. There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way, the way the tv show showed, that the Lannisters had a chance. Because, again, otherwise the story is over and the writer doesnt get to pretend he is 'serious' because good guys always die and badguys can recover from any kind of mishap. I think that's a little unfair to say. It's easy to come up with hypothetical changes that would turn everything on it's head. For example, I'll pick one of yours. "What if the Tully women weren't all retarded and the Vale joined against the Lannisters" Well, what is Joffrey wasn't retarded? When you say "There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way that the Lannisters had a chance", you're just being dishonest. There are an infinite number of ways in which either side could win. Why didn't you mention this one? "If Ned hadn't been so honorable, he would have just listened to Littlefinger in S1 and ousted the Lannisters that way" It's just pointless. It wasn't bad luck that lost Ned his head. Sure, it didn't help, but Ned was just bad at the Game of Thrones. When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. Being honest and honorable is incompatible with succeeding at the Game of Thrones because it's like trying to fight with both hands tied behind your back against the other guy who isn't going to hold back.
If Joffrey wasnt a monster then we wouldnt care at all. It would be just two families of rich people fighting each other.
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stannis has really good facial experessions 
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On April 30 2013 05:12 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 05:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:45 Sub40APM wrote:On April 30 2013 04:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:25 karazax wrote:On April 30 2013 04:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:10 Zane wrote:
Jaime is right. Ned wouldn't have listened. He didn't listen to the story of the deserter who saw the White Walkers, he just executed him. Dealing in absolutes makes Starks terrible rulers. Ned Stark was a terrible ruler? He was beloved by all his vassals and ran the North perfectly fine. Ned was portrayed as one of the best rulers in the show so far (maybe you could argue Tywin or Tyrion is "better", but that's up for debate). I'd say the Starks are good rulers as long as they are completely in charge, but terrible politicians. "bad" at the Game of Thrones =p That's the nature of the game though. You can't be honorable/honest and still be good at the Game of Thrones because the very nature of the Game necessitates deception and the use of shady tactics. Playing the Game of Thrones is completely different from being a ruler though. like someone else said, they just have bad luck and the lannisters have good luck. in other words, the author went out of his way to clown the Starks. Look at all these ways: What were the odds that a boar would kill a drunken Robert, what if they didnt find a boar before Robert passed out from being drunk, came home, and Ned reports to him about the Lanisters? Thats it, gg house lanister. What are the odds that Robb's mom didnt bring Robb's wife from House Frey with them on campaign to make sure her horny 16 year old didnt do something retarded like marry a nobody from nowhere and thus fundamentally weaken House Stark? What if Bran Stark was warned about a random band of Ironman marching all the way from the ocean to his castle (look at the map, there is nowhere for the Ironborn to park their boat, so they hiked for days just to get to Winterfell. And no one in the North warned Bran about it??!) What if the men that Bran sent to fight the Northmen away from the Castle didnt stupidly surrender (there were still a couple hundred of them!) but scaled the same walls and captured the castle that was lightly guarded by pirates who have no idea where the secret passages are? What if the Tyrells listend to their wise grandma, sat back in high garden and let the Baratheons slaughter the Lannisters and then do whatever they want since they would be the richest kingdom and also the only one with lots of food for the Winter? What if the Tully women werent all retarded and the Vale joined the Starks and Riverun, now its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever Joff had around kings landing for the opening stages of the war and the Tyrells no matter how greedy all of the sudden still decide to sit it out? What if Tyrion wasnt a genius defensive general and simple decided to take his money and run, Tywin would arrive to a sacked kings' landing for sure. What if the greatest sell sword didnt randomly stay at the hotel were Tyrion is being held, doenst go to the vale and doesnt fight for Tyrion so Tyrion gets thrown out of the mooncell/killed in a fight and therefore the Value *has* to join House Stark/River Run in the war and again its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever is around King's Landing. There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way, the way the tv show showed, that the Lannisters had a chance. Because, again, otherwise the story is over and the writer doesnt get to pretend he is 'serious' because good guys always die and badguys can recover from any kind of mishap. I think that's a little unfair to say. It's easy to come up with hypothetical changes that would turn everything on it's head. For example, I'll pick one of yours. "What if the Tully women weren't all retarded and the Vale joined against the Lannisters" Well, what is Joffrey wasn't retarded? When you say "There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way that the Lannisters had a chance", you're just being dishonest. There are an infinite number of ways in which either side could win. Why didn't you mention this one? "If Ned hadn't been so honorable, he would have just listened to Littlefinger in S1 and ousted the Lannisters that way" It's just pointless. It wasn't bad luck that lost Ned his head. Sure, it didn't help, but Ned was just bad at the Game of Thrones. When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. Being honest and honorable is incompatible with succeeding at the Game of Thrones because it's like trying to fight with both hands tied behind your back against the other guy who isn't going to hold back. If Joffrey wasnt a monster then we wouldnt care at all. It would be just two families of rich people fighting each other.
That's why all these hypothetical changes are pointless - you can't just pin it on luck. Both sides have had their fair share of good luck and bad luck.
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On April 30 2013 04:45 Aegon I wrote:
What do the the Starks say when winter is actually here?
It's been bugging me
"See we told ya so!"
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On April 29 2013 23:12 Steveling wrote:People wearing full armors were lowered on top of their horse with a crane. So, no, this guy + Show Spoiler + could not use anything else besides soft silk armor, lol.
Isn't that crane thing a myth?
I will quote some webpage that was probably linked earlier in this thread about busting myths on medieval warfare
"Mistaken claims that Medieval armored horsemen had become clanking tanks or that unhorsed a knight was at his foe's mercy have become common even among some medieval historians. A warrior in plate armor was far from being the sluggish lobster so frequently mischaracterized by military writers. While an armored man was not as agile as an unarmored one, plate armor overall was well balanced and ingeniously designed to permit considerable maneuverability and nimbleness."
http://www.thearma.org/essays/TopMyths.htm
A man with considerable maneuverability and nimbleness shouldn't have any trouble mounting and dismounting.
Also Loras should be able to wear full plate just fine with his current build.
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On April 30 2013 05:27 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 05:12 Sub40APM wrote:On April 30 2013 05:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:45 Sub40APM wrote:On April 30 2013 04:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:25 karazax wrote:On April 30 2013 04:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:10 Zane wrote:
Jaime is right. Ned wouldn't have listened. He didn't listen to the story of the deserter who saw the White Walkers, he just executed him. Dealing in absolutes makes Starks terrible rulers. Ned Stark was a terrible ruler? He was beloved by all his vassals and ran the North perfectly fine. Ned was portrayed as one of the best rulers in the show so far (maybe you could argue Tywin or Tyrion is "better", but that's up for debate). I'd say the Starks are good rulers as long as they are completely in charge, but terrible politicians. "bad" at the Game of Thrones =p That's the nature of the game though. You can't be honorable/honest and still be good at the Game of Thrones because the very nature of the Game necessitates deception and the use of shady tactics. Playing the Game of Thrones is completely different from being a ruler though. like someone else said, they just have bad luck and the lannisters have good luck. in other words, the author went out of his way to clown the Starks. Look at all these ways: What were the odds that a boar would kill a drunken Robert, what if they didnt find a boar before Robert passed out from being drunk, came home, and Ned reports to him about the Lanisters? Thats it, gg house lanister. What are the odds that Robb's mom didnt bring Robb's wife from House Frey with them on campaign to make sure her horny 16 year old didnt do something retarded like marry a nobody from nowhere and thus fundamentally weaken House Stark? What if Bran Stark was warned about a random band of Ironman marching all the way from the ocean to his castle (look at the map, there is nowhere for the Ironborn to park their boat, so they hiked for days just to get to Winterfell. And no one in the North warned Bran about it??!) What if the men that Bran sent to fight the Northmen away from the Castle didnt stupidly surrender (there were still a couple hundred of them!) but scaled the same walls and captured the castle that was lightly guarded by pirates who have no idea where the secret passages are? What if the Tyrells listend to their wise grandma, sat back in high garden and let the Baratheons slaughter the Lannisters and then do whatever they want since they would be the richest kingdom and also the only one with lots of food for the Winter? What if the Tully women werent all retarded and the Vale joined the Starks and Riverun, now its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever Joff had around kings landing for the opening stages of the war and the Tyrells no matter how greedy all of the sudden still decide to sit it out? What if Tyrion wasnt a genius defensive general and simple decided to take his money and run, Tywin would arrive to a sacked kings' landing for sure. What if the greatest sell sword didnt randomly stay at the hotel were Tyrion is being held, doenst go to the vale and doesnt fight for Tyrion so Tyrion gets thrown out of the mooncell/killed in a fight and therefore the Value *has* to join House Stark/River Run in the war and again its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever is around King's Landing. There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way, the way the tv show showed, that the Lannisters had a chance. Because, again, otherwise the story is over and the writer doesnt get to pretend he is 'serious' because good guys always die and badguys can recover from any kind of mishap. I think that's a little unfair to say. It's easy to come up with hypothetical changes that would turn everything on it's head. For example, I'll pick one of yours. "What if the Tully women weren't all retarded and the Vale joined against the Lannisters" Well, what is Joffrey wasn't retarded? When you say "There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way that the Lannisters had a chance", you're just being dishonest. There are an infinite number of ways in which either side could win. Why didn't you mention this one? "If Ned hadn't been so honorable, he would have just listened to Littlefinger in S1 and ousted the Lannisters that way" It's just pointless. It wasn't bad luck that lost Ned his head. Sure, it didn't help, but Ned was just bad at the Game of Thrones. When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. Being honest and honorable is incompatible with succeeding at the Game of Thrones because it's like trying to fight with both hands tied behind your back against the other guy who isn't going to hold back. If Joffrey wasnt a monster then we wouldnt care at all. It would be just two families of rich people fighting each other. That's why all these hypothetical changes are pointless - you can't just pin it on luck. Both sides have had their fair share of good luck and bad luck. sorry, what was the bad luck the Lannisters had? They've lost every battle yet their only lose was Jaimie and he seems like an arrogant prick so probably no better general than anyone else they have, no big loss there. Other than that everything is shaping up nicely for them. Wake me up when Castley Rock is burned down because no one notices an army marching onto it or Cercei has Margery kidnapped, announces it so to the Tyrrels and they quite logically declare war on Lanisters.
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On April 30 2013 04:45 Aegon I wrote:
What do the the Starks say when winter is actually here?
It's been bugging me
Winter seems to be a term used to represent a time when evil is at its strongest. The White Walkers are back, and the
Kingdoms are fighting among themselves. Ned Stark is dead, Sansa and Arya are lost to their family. Jon Snow is at the Wall with the wilding's King. Catlyn has broken ranks with Rob, weakening his army. Winter is here for the Stacks.
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On April 30 2013 06:00 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 05:27 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 05:12 Sub40APM wrote:On April 30 2013 05:00 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:45 Sub40APM wrote:On April 30 2013 04:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:25 karazax wrote:On April 30 2013 04:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:10 Zane wrote:
Jaime is right. Ned wouldn't have listened. He didn't listen to the story of the deserter who saw the White Walkers, he just executed him. Dealing in absolutes makes Starks terrible rulers. Ned Stark was a terrible ruler? He was beloved by all his vassals and ran the North perfectly fine. Ned was portrayed as one of the best rulers in the show so far (maybe you could argue Tywin or Tyrion is "better", but that's up for debate). I'd say the Starks are good rulers as long as they are completely in charge, but terrible politicians. "bad" at the Game of Thrones =p That's the nature of the game though. You can't be honorable/honest and still be good at the Game of Thrones because the very nature of the Game necessitates deception and the use of shady tactics. Playing the Game of Thrones is completely different from being a ruler though. like someone else said, they just have bad luck and the lannisters have good luck. in other words, the author went out of his way to clown the Starks. Look at all these ways: What were the odds that a boar would kill a drunken Robert, what if they didnt find a boar before Robert passed out from being drunk, came home, and Ned reports to him about the Lanisters? Thats it, gg house lanister. What are the odds that Robb's mom didnt bring Robb's wife from House Frey with them on campaign to make sure her horny 16 year old didnt do something retarded like marry a nobody from nowhere and thus fundamentally weaken House Stark? What if Bran Stark was warned about a random band of Ironman marching all the way from the ocean to his castle (look at the map, there is nowhere for the Ironborn to park their boat, so they hiked for days just to get to Winterfell. And no one in the North warned Bran about it??!) What if the men that Bran sent to fight the Northmen away from the Castle didnt stupidly surrender (there were still a couple hundred of them!) but scaled the same walls and captured the castle that was lightly guarded by pirates who have no idea where the secret passages are? What if the Tyrells listend to their wise grandma, sat back in high garden and let the Baratheons slaughter the Lannisters and then do whatever they want since they would be the richest kingdom and also the only one with lots of food for the Winter? What if the Tully women werent all retarded and the Vale joined the Starks and Riverun, now its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever Joff had around kings landing for the opening stages of the war and the Tyrells no matter how greedy all of the sudden still decide to sit it out? What if Tyrion wasnt a genius defensive general and simple decided to take his money and run, Tywin would arrive to a sacked kings' landing for sure. What if the greatest sell sword didnt randomly stay at the hotel were Tyrion is being held, doenst go to the vale and doesnt fight for Tyrion so Tyrion gets thrown out of the mooncell/killed in a fight and therefore the Value *has* to join House Stark/River Run in the war and again its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever is around King's Landing. There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way, the way the tv show showed, that the Lannisters had a chance. Because, again, otherwise the story is over and the writer doesnt get to pretend he is 'serious' because good guys always die and badguys can recover from any kind of mishap. I think that's a little unfair to say. It's easy to come up with hypothetical changes that would turn everything on it's head. For example, I'll pick one of yours. "What if the Tully women weren't all retarded and the Vale joined against the Lannisters" Well, what is Joffrey wasn't retarded? When you say "There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way that the Lannisters had a chance", you're just being dishonest. There are an infinite number of ways in which either side could win. Why didn't you mention this one? "If Ned hadn't been so honorable, he would have just listened to Littlefinger in S1 and ousted the Lannisters that way" It's just pointless. It wasn't bad luck that lost Ned his head. Sure, it didn't help, but Ned was just bad at the Game of Thrones. When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. Being honest and honorable is incompatible with succeeding at the Game of Thrones because it's like trying to fight with both hands tied behind your back against the other guy who isn't going to hold back. If Joffrey wasnt a monster then we wouldnt care at all. It would be just two families of rich people fighting each other. That's why all these hypothetical changes are pointless - you can't just pin it on luck. Both sides have had their fair share of good luck and bad luck. sorry, what was the bad luck the Lannisters had? They've lost every battle yet their only lose was Jaimie and he seems like an arrogant prick so probably no better general than anyone else they have, no big loss there. Other than that everything is shaping up nicely for them. Wake me up when Castley Rock is burned down because no one notices an army marching onto it or Cercei has Margery kidnapped, announces it so to the Tyrrels and they quite logically declare war on Lanisters.
Tyrion was born a dwarf (and lost his mother in the process). Joffrey is clearly insane and started the entire mess (as Tywin complained) and Cersei, his mother (who happens to appear slightly paranoid herself), just spoiled and encouraged his sadistic behavior and did nothing to stop his son from starting a war. Jaime and Cersei practice brother-sister incest. Tyrion keeps trying to marry whores.
Put yourself in Tywins shoes and tell me you wouldn't be pissed about bad luck when it comes to heirs.
Two innocent Lannister boys are executed in this very past episode out of bloodthirsty vengeance.
Cersei's husband - Robert Baratheon doesn't love her and never has (always loved Ned's sister Lyanna). He dishonored her on a daily basis by living a life of debauchery and probably loves his good friend Ned more than her too. He actually seems to despise her to be honest. Cersei's bad memories at being forced to marry a man she doesn't love clearly come rushing back to her this last episode when Tywin tells her she is going to do it again.
The list goes on and on and is no different than your list of bad Stark luck. Complaining about the facticity of one's situation as "back luck" is pointless and a scapegoat. Ned lost his head because he prized honor above everything else, not because of bad luck.
Robb's recent turn of unfortunate events are because of his own mistakes (or those of other Starks), not from bad luck.
-Robb broke a betrothal with one is most powerful vassals (the Freys) and now he needs them more than ever.
-Robb can blame Edmure Tully for disobeying his orders but Robb was at fault for not keeping his officers informed of the significance of holding position so that the Mountain could be lured into a trap. You generally want to keep your generals aware of your military strategy.
-If Catelyn hadn't freed Jaime, Karstark likely wouldn't have betrayed Robb and Robb wouldn't have lost Karstark support.
Are you Idra Stark or something? I love the Starks as much as anyone but they aren't perfect, especially when it comes to the Game of Thrones where their honor often gets in the way of pragmatism. Don't pretend the mistakes aren't there because they are, you can't just blame it on "lannisters op they got lucky game is imba" when they clearly could have won by now had they acted more competently.
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On April 30 2013 04:45 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:25 karazax wrote:On April 30 2013 04:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:10 Zane wrote:
Jaime is right. Ned wouldn't have listened. He didn't listen to the story of the deserter who saw the White Walkers, he just executed him. Dealing in absolutes makes Starks terrible rulers. Ned Stark was a terrible ruler? He was beloved by all his vassals and ran the North perfectly fine. Ned was portrayed as one of the best rulers in the show so far (maybe you could argue Tywin or Tyrion is "better", but that's up for debate). I'd say the Starks are good rulers as long as they are completely in charge, but terrible politicians. "bad" at the Game of Thrones =p That's the nature of the game though. You can't be honorable/honest and still be good at the Game of Thrones because the very nature of the Game necessitates deception and the use of shady tactics. Playing the Game of Thrones is completely different from being a ruler though. like someone else said, they just have bad luck and the lannisters have good luck. in other words, the author went out of his way to clown the Starks. Look at all these ways: What were the odds that a boar would kill a drunken Robert, what if they didnt find a boar before Robert passed out from being drunk, came home, and Ned reports to him about the Lanisters? Thats it, gg house lanister.
Isn't it said outright (or at least heavily implied) that Cersei had Robert's Lannister squire slip him a mickey and thus he died from the boar?
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I agree on the Lord of Light being OP, I mean multiple resurrections is so imba
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On April 30 2013 04:45 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:25 karazax wrote:On April 30 2013 04:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:10 Zane wrote:
Jaime is right. Ned wouldn't have listened. He didn't listen to the story of the deserter who saw the White Walkers, he just executed him. Dealing in absolutes makes Starks terrible rulers. Ned Stark was a terrible ruler? He was beloved by all his vassals and ran the North perfectly fine. Ned was portrayed as one of the best rulers in the show so far (maybe you could argue Tywin or Tyrion is "better", but that's up for debate). I'd say the Starks are good rulers as long as they are completely in charge, but terrible politicians. "bad" at the Game of Thrones =p That's the nature of the game though. You can't be honorable/honest and still be good at the Game of Thrones because the very nature of the Game necessitates deception and the use of shady tactics. Playing the Game of Thrones is completely different from being a ruler though. like someone else said, they just have bad luck and the lannisters have good luck. in other words, the author went out of his way to clown the Starks. Look at all these ways: What were the odds that a boar would kill a drunken Robert, what if they didnt find a boar before Robert passed out from being drunk, came home, and Ned reports to him about the Lanisters? Thats it, gg house lanister. What are the odds that Robb's mom didnt bring Robb's wife from House Frey with them on campaign to make sure her horny 16 year old didnt do something retarded like marry a nobody from nowhere and thus fundamentally weaken House Stark? What if Bran Stark was warned about a random band of Ironman marching all the way from the ocean to his castle (look at the map, there is nowhere for the Ironborn to park their boat, so they hiked for days just to get to Winterfell. And no one in the North warned Bran about it??!) What if the men that Bran sent to fight the Northmen away from the Castle didnt stupidly surrender (there were still a couple hundred of them!) but scaled the same walls and captured the castle that was lightly guarded by pirates who have no idea where the secret passages are? What if the Tyrells listend to their wise grandma, sat back in high garden and let the Baratheons slaughter the Lannisters and then do whatever they want since they would be the richest kingdom and also the only one with lots of food for the Winter? What if the Tully women werent all retarded and the Vale joined the Starks and Riverun, now its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever Joff had around kings landing for the opening stages of the war and the Tyrells no matter how greedy all of the sudden still decide to sit it out? What if Tyrion wasnt a genius defensive general and simple decided to take his money and run, Tywin would arrive to a sacked kings' landing for sure. What if the greatest sell sword didnt randomly stay at the hotel were Tyrion is being held, doenst go to the vale and doesnt fight for Tyrion so Tyrion gets thrown out of the mooncell/killed in a fight and therefore the Value *has* to join House Stark/River Run in the war and again its 4 kingdoms against Lannister + whatever is around King's Landing. There are literally a million ways in which the Stark alliance wins, and only the one way, the way the tv show showed, that the Lannisters had a chance. Because, again, otherwise the story is over and the writer doesnt get to pretend he is 'serious' because good guys always die and badguys can recover from any kind of mishap.
You're assuming Martin is advocating an atheistic viewpoint (there is no God, rhyme, reason, etc.) What if he agrees with Tywin Lannister's fundamentally Satanist viewpoint? What if there is a God/gods, but they are evil? What if they root for evil and destruction and injustice?
The night is dark, and it is full of terrors.
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On April 30 2013 06:10 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:45 Sub40APM wrote:On April 30 2013 04:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:25 karazax wrote:On April 30 2013 04:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On April 30 2013 04:10 Zane wrote:
Jaime is right. Ned wouldn't have listened. He didn't listen to the story of the deserter who saw the White Walkers, he just executed him. Dealing in absolutes makes Starks terrible rulers. Ned Stark was a terrible ruler? He was beloved by all his vassals and ran the North perfectly fine. Ned was portrayed as one of the best rulers in the show so far (maybe you could argue Tywin or Tyrion is "better", but that's up for debate). I'd say the Starks are good rulers as long as they are completely in charge, but terrible politicians. "bad" at the Game of Thrones =p That's the nature of the game though. You can't be honorable/honest and still be good at the Game of Thrones because the very nature of the Game necessitates deception and the use of shady tactics. Playing the Game of Thrones is completely different from being a ruler though. like someone else said, they just have bad luck and the lannisters have good luck. in other words, the author went out of his way to clown the Starks. Look at all these ways: What were the odds that a boar would kill a drunken Robert, what if they didnt find a boar before Robert passed out from being drunk, came home, and Ned reports to him about the Lanisters? Thats it, gg house lanister. Isn't it said outright (or at least heavily implied) that Cersei had Robert's Lannister squire slip him a mickey and thus he died from the boar?
It is? Where in the show is that mentioned?
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I'm fairly certain they mention that Lancel was basically going "CHUG CHUG CHUG" with the wine skin
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On April 30 2013 06:04 awaller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 04:45 Aegon I wrote:
What do the the Starks say when winter is actually here?
It's been bugging me
Winter seems to be a term used to represent a time when evil is at its strongest. The White Walkers are back, and the Kingdoms are fighting among themselves. Ned Stark is dead, Sansa and Arya are lost to their family. Jon Snow is at the Wall with the wilding's King. Catlyn has broken ranks with Rob, weakening his army. Winter is here for the Stacks.
No winter represents winter. Cold and freezing winter. Winter is pretty damn bad and the words urge you to consider that winter is eventually gonna come, so be prepared. When winter truly comes, the white walkers are gonna fuck shit up, people will starve in droves and this petty conflict they have now will mean nothing.
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EPT
