EPT[Hero] Winter Wyvern - Page 2
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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TheEmulator
28091 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 13 2015 03:32 TheEmulator wrote: I didn't even know of this hero until the announcement (didn't play dota 1 or anything like that). Out of all the remaining heroes still not in the game this one hasn't been mentioned much Because she's not bullshit like Zet or Pitlord lol. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
It's like worse than putting bane mid because bane mid actually has some upside. On February 13 2015 03:32 TheEmulator wrote: I didn't even know of this hero until the announcement (didn't play dota 1 or anything like that). Out of all the remaining heroes still not in the game this one hasn't been mentioned much everybody just wants to try zet aka double all items :3 | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 13 2015 03:33 Sn0_Man wrote: It's like worse than putting bane mid because bane mid actually has some upside. You mean like how Bane mid wins 99% of lanes and doesn't have no-stack SF-level base damage? | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
She's not popular, but it's also not true that nobody's played her or that she hasn't been played enough to have some basic idea of what's good and bad (although obviously this can still miss stuff like Sleight-max first item BF Ember not being a big thing until the hero hit DotA 2). | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On February 13 2015 03:34 TheYango wrote: You mean like how Bane mid wins 99% of lanes and doesn't have no-stack SF-level base damage? and how Bane actually scales fairly open-endedly with items (a mobility item, a mana item, bkb and necro are all big impact), can't get farm without having a lane to farm (like mid), and can dominate the early-midgame with fast levels and a fast mobility item against unprepared opponents. All distinctly opposite to WW. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On February 13 2015 03:33 TheYango wrote: She actually verifiably blows at mid, because a hero with 38-45 base damage (Sniper/Invoker/no-stacks SF-level awful base damage) and 425 base range is virtually un-laneable. Because she's not bullshit like Zet or Pitlord lol. She does, however, have a pretty solid farming ability on a low cooldown that punishes melee heroes. Will she be beaten horribly by Viper? Yes. But against any of the greedier melee mids... not so clear. That's a solid niche. On February 13 2015 03:36 TheYango wrote: You say this like the Chinese pub DotA 1 scene isn't alive and well and hasn't played her plenty since her release. She's not popular, but it's also not true that nobody's played her or that she hasn't been played enough to have some basic idea of what's good and bad (although obviously this can still miss stuff like Sleight-max first item BF Ember not being a big thing until the hero hit DotA 2). Then just copy their strategy guides, and it's pretty obvious I meant nobody around here. The topic was why nobody around here seems to have heard of her, and I think you agree with my reason for that. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Having a cost-efficient AoE nuke doesn't constitute "punishing" greedy melee mids, that's why 90% of those heroes just farm off against each other, and she's not any more dangerous to them than they are to each other while scaling worse than pretty much all of them. EDIT: You could honestly compare it to mid KotL, which is actually completely terrible, but he's STILL actually a better laner than WW is because he's a 600 range hero with better base damage and MS, and has infinite mana inherently. Offlane--well, Jakiro offlane was possible for a while, so who the fuck knows. Liquid Fire is a way better skill for trading/harassment than Splinter Blast, though. I think it's bad, but it's probably less bad than putting her mid, honestly, lol. You really need supports to give you hard camp stacks to catch-up farm with Splinter Blast, though. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
As an offlaner how do you work around her? The Q, while a long cooldown, seems terrifying in it's potential to just sap a ton of health off with a single auto-attack and the ability to follow that attack up with more because of her 700 range and 25% slow. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
You just have to force them to pop their Q at a time when there's no kill potential so that she can't slow you at a bad time. Without popping Q, ww doesn't actually do anything to you with shit range, shit damage, shit speed and an unlandable nuke so just force Q at bad times and then regen up and enjoy ur minute against a useless hero. And um, don't get disabled near a target for W (aka creeps) since that skill may be unlandable but the damage is nuts. And if you go for some sort of aggressive lane or w/e, try to pack magic/pure damage not physical since WW's heal stops all phys dmg. Lots of stuff pairs well with WW tbh. Something with a silence or stun to stop escape mechanisms (and tps) is nice but not that necessary. Soemthing with big AoE disable to help ur Splinter Blast hit is great but not necessary (and i mean, who DOESN'T pair well with big aoe disable? ). You aren't like a mirana who specifically pairs with setup abilities etc. | ||
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goody153
44201 Posts
Can somebody tell me what's the role of this hero and what lineups he is theoretically good against and bad against? (i have little knowledge about the hero) | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On February 13 2015 04:14 goody153 wrote: I've used the hero long ago in the past but i was strategically stupid back then. Can somebody tell me what's the role of this hero and what lineups he is theoretically good against and bad against? HARD SUPPORT good vs clumpy low-mobility melee lineups, physical burst initiation like LC, and people who are dumb and stand next to each other. Very strong in lane I think. good with: lots of stuff. Notably big aoe disable like chrono/ravage but who isn't right. She only has one brief disable then some passable but not great slows so the more disable your team can pile on (even just additional slow) the better. She doesn't really need single target disable like bane though. Bad against: high mobility high range lineups. Stuff like drow-based lineups with 4 or 5 high-range heroes that you can't catch multiple of in ur ult, fast heroes that are hard to hit with your W, heroes that can interact with you at big range because you generally cast spells and attack at 800-1000 range in fights. Q/W invoker, sniper, AA. WW doesn't interact well with like a tide blink ravaging you but does interact well with too many low-mobility melee heroes who can't all close without u ulting multiple of them so theres a balance there. | ||
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goody153
44201 Posts
On February 13 2015 04:20 Sn0_Man wrote: HARD SUPPORT good vs clumpy low-mobility melee lineups, physical burst initiation like LC, and people who are dumb and stand next to each other. Very strong in lane I think. good with: lots of stuff. Notably big aoe disable like chrono/ravage but who isn't right. She only has one brief disable then some passable but not great slows so the more disable your team can pile on (even just additional slow) the better. She doesn't really need single target disable like bane though. Bad against: high mobility high range lineups. Stuff like drow-based lineups with 4 or 5 high-range heroes that you can't catch multiple of in ur ult, fast heroes that are hard to hit with your W, heroes that can interact with you at big range because you generally cast spells and attack at 800-1000 range in fights. Q/W invoker, sniper, AA. WW doesn't interact well with like a tide blink ravaging you but does interact well with too many low-mobility melee heroes who can't all close without u ulting multiple of them so theres a balance there. So he is like timbersaw and similar to skywrath as well that gets shit on by bkb. Except without the tankiness and the high mobility of timber ? ok ty ty i actually thought the hero is a core. If he was added at CM how viable is the hero ? | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 13 2015 04:26 goody153 wrote: So he is like timbersaw and similar to skywrath as well that gets shit on by bkb. Except without the tankiness and the high mobility of timber ? ok ty ty i actually thought the hero is a core. If he was added at CM how viable is the hero ? WW's ult pierces BKB so no, not quite the same. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
nor skywrath I'd describe the hero as a lot like an AA. Very non-standard damage output but can be very high, big range backliner, unique and powerful ultimate, very limited item requirements. Not identical of course, but similar ish. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 13 2015 04:28 Sn0_Man wrote: erm, not much like timbersaw no nor skywrath I'd describe the hero as a lot like an AA. Very non-standard damage output but can be very high, big range backliner, unique and powerful ultimate, very limited item requirements. Not identical of course, but similar ish. That's the closest comparison I'd make, but even that's not that great because he has near-KotL level stack farming ability while AA can't farm for shit. | ||
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goody153
44201 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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