|
Like many great poets, Auroth just wants time to write, but the Winter Wyvern's life is full of interruptions. The epics of the Eldwurms have a long and colorful history, but some fear that the remaining dragon scholars are not as prolific as they once were, with few lines added to the Eldwurm Eddas since the last age of greatness. Auroth laments: "We forget that there is more to life than triumph and dominion over enemies. We must also live our lives in the pursuit of creative expression." She embarks on research expeditions, collecting books for inspiration. But all this research can be terribly distracting, and she spends less time writing than she should. Although she knows she should be lurking in her lair, adding to the Eddas, she finds herself engaged in epic battles against powerful enemies. She loots castles, raids ancient libraries ... and if she happens to heap glory on herself in the process, she tells herself that it's merely a side effect of her research. The fact is, while her skill and power on the battlefield are legendary, her scholarly travails have thus far hardly been the stuff of literary acclaim. But she is not content to stand as a protagonist of heroic lore. She wishes also to create it.
Since WW is supposed to be coming out like today or tomorrow I figured we needed a thread to discuss her. I'm assuming most people here never played her in WC3 Dota, but if you did feel free to share insight.
For basic info like abilities and base stats etc, check out the Liquipedia page :
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/4/4a/Winter_Wyvern_icon.png)  Winter Wyvern
|
From what I can tell (and I've never played the hero), I think the plan is something like q/e/w/w/w/r/w then what you max next might be situational depending on how offensive or defensive you need to be.
Basically use Q in lane to harass and even kill if you have a strong partner, E to save partner etc, and W is basically only good at near-melee range until you have ult (unless you have a strong disabling lanemate).
Once you have ult, keep in mind that it's often better to ult the support that you don't care about rather than the carry that you do since both will be disabled but ulting the carry results in the supports team-fragging whereas ulting somebody else results in the carry team-fragging which is much better once he has some damage going. Your W is your main source of damage but again you don't always want to throw it at the ulted target. Sometimes you need to throw it at a taunted target instead to ensure that you can kill the ulted guy. In case it isn't clear, it does NOT damage the primary target. Which makes it hella bad for lane harass without like a bane or w/e btw.
|
United States47024 Posts
Splinter Blast is super unwieldy because of how slow it moves.
It is, however, both an amazing stack-farming skill and an amazing anti-push skill.
|
SoCal8910 Posts
what position is winter wyvern played as?
what kind of items should I look to pick up?
what are her strongest allies and strongest foes?
I plan on playing her a bunch over the break I'd love to hear more!.
|
340 damage in 500 aoe on a 7s cooldown is nuts
but yes just reading how slow it moves etc it's only marginally faster than skywrath's q but dodgeable so yikes.
I mean, you could argue for a q-max build to maximize your uptime and range but that seems like a waste of both farming ability and kill potential.
If the target of the splinter blast dies (like say u target a creep and it dies to tower or w/e) the blast continues to the corpse and explodes on that right?
|
United States47024 Posts
4 or 5, she doesn't really have a ton of particular benefit from items, but she really wants levels pretty badly, and again, she farms stacks really fast cuz Splinter Blast has high damage on low CD.
There's no item that stands out as particularly amazing for her. You can usually just get Arcanes (or Tranq+Eul if you're greedier since it's better for stack-farming mana usage patterns) and then buy standard support crap.
On February 13 2015 02:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
340 damage in 500 aoe on a 7s cooldown is nuts
but yes just reading how slow it moves etc it's only marginally faster than skywrath's q but dodgeable so yikes.
It's not actually as slow as the raw speed on the description indicates--1.35s maximum travel time almost always kicks in if you cast it at any reasonable range.
1.35s delay is still super slow, though.
On February 13 2015 02:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
If the target of the splinter blast dies (like say u target a creep and it dies to tower or w/e) the blast continues to the corpse and explodes on that right?
Yes.
|
Interestingly, if a unit starts at the exact same location as the primary target, it needs to generate 370 units of separation per second to escape the blast. Now, with 2 units able to move, the delta split factor does come into play here, and obviously no units ever start truly stacked on top of each other, but that does sound a bit hopeful once you factor in reaction time etc. Not to mention ur 25-40% slow from autos based on ur Q.
|
I'm getting the feeling her Q is actually really, really broken. Like, fuck-synergy levels of broken. It might be the ability you want to max first. Keep in mind that at level 4, it will break at the same time smoke does (well, okay, Smoke breaks 25 range further away, but are you really going to quibble about that?).
W seems needlessly clunky, but it ought to be decently safe source of damage. The safe bet is on maxing it first, but I think we'll end up maxing it second.
The E seems like a much better ability lategame, where it essentially functions as Ethereal Blade Plus in terms of defense.
Ult is pretty obvious in how amazing it is. Can't wait to see her comboed with Dark Seer for a makeshift Black Hole on a 70 second cooldown. This is the ability we will see punishing poor support positioning.
As for items... I'd expect her to get a fast Eul's. She could do with the mana regen and movespeed, and the toss-up is just generally good. Force Staff is also strong, of course, and possibly she'd run an Orchid or something like that. Mask of Madness might even be an effective option. I wouldn't be surprised one bit.
|
the thing is u really don't need dark seer to make the ult a black hole.
W is very clunky for sure but the damage is really hard to pass up imo. we'll see.
|
On February 13 2015 02:54 Acritter wrote:
possibly she'd run an Orchid or something like that. Mask of Madness might even be an effective option. I wouldn't be surprised one bit.
no stahp
attackspeed is NOT GOOD on ww. its terribad
|
Yeah, but with Wall of Replica and shit, it gets even cooler.
No pun intended.
Ha, fuck that. Pun completely intended.
Really, though, I think she'd work best alongside pickoff heroes. Like, combining her with LC seems really strong. LC Duels, and the other team runs in to try and help... right? Nah. Makes for a really unpleasant situation.
On February 13 2015 02:59 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 02:54 Acritter wrote:
possibly she'd run an Orchid or something like that. Mask of Madness might even be an effective option. I wouldn't be surprised one bit. no stahp attackspeed is NOT GOOD on ww. its terribad
LOL
Have you ever tried the hero? Have you even thought about how good it would be to, say, put her Q debuff on multiple enemy heroes?
pls do not talk shit until you have tried
|
u hab 1000 range. literally more than sniper.
i'm sure u can get off 1 auto on each hero necessary. especially with a .1 attackpoint. and refresh it on the relevant hero too.
|
United States47024 Posts
On February 13 2015 03:00 Acritter wrote:
LOL
Have you ever tried the hero? Have you even thought about how good it would be to, say, put her Q debuff on multiple enemy heroes?
pls do not talk shit until you have tried
Base AS lets you hit 4 targets during the duration, and you can't apply the debuff to any given target more than once during the cast.
|
That's exactly what makes MoM so good though. You have infinite range and shitty native movespeed. You can attack whatever the fuck you want, and you can do it safely, too.
What other item are you going to get for that price point that will do so much to complement that ability?
On February 13 2015 03:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 03:00 Acritter wrote:
LOL
Have you ever tried the hero? Have you even thought about how good it would be to, say, put her Q debuff on multiple enemy heroes?
pls do not talk shit until you have tried Base AS lets you hit 4 targets during the duration, and you can't apply the debuff to any given target more than once during the cast.
Does base MS let you do that?
|
if with 1k range u somehow can't hit baddies u might as well buy drums instead of mom. and drums suck.
But force/blink are in general strong items on WW I think in order to get a good ult off since semi-smart opponents wont position themselves within 350 range of multiple allies if they know ur near. 800 range ult means that u will continue to be in range for ur autos no problem.
|
United States47024 Posts
No, but you have zero use for lifesteal and questionable use for AS, so why would you get MoM for MS over something like Eul's that gives you MS alongside actually useful stats.
You get Arctic Burn for 6 out of 20s, and you go back to your normal shit attack range after that. The skill won't make you into a secondary autoattack DPS point, and MoM is essentially an empty item slot after those 6 seconds.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rTSezIi.png)
This is a rough facsimile of the top lane. Here we see the enemy carry farming with two supports standing behind. It may just be one, but you get the idea. It's nighttime, as it should be when you're ganking with the Wyvern. Also pictured are your two allies, but their positioning is irrelevant. You initiate with your Q and attack the carry. With no MoM, if the supports determine that the carry is just going to die (say, you have 2 cores 1 support doing the gank), they can run away. You aren't fast enough to catch them, ever. If, on the other hand, you do have MoM, they can't run away, because you have 435 movespeed. This limits their options significantly, as I need not make you aware, and limiting options is generally a very good thing. Drums of Endurance increase your movement speed to 385, which can be escaped from when they have a head start like that. In addition, you can start from out of range of their vision and move yourself up to a position where you can see teleports coming in at their T1 within the duration of the Q.
On February 13 2015 03:13 TheYango wrote:
No, but you have zero use for lifesteal and questionable use for AS, so why would you get MoM for MS over something like Eul's that gives you MS alongside actually useful stats.
You get Arctic Burn for 6 out of 20s, and you go back to your normal shit attack range after that. The skill won't make you into a secondary autoattack DPS point, and MoM is essentially an empty item slot after those 6 seconds.
Because there's no better item for that kind of movespeed, plain and simple. And you'll note that I did, in fact, mention Eul's: I just think that MoM will also see use.
I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't think anyone will get MoM on the hero a few months from now, but that'll be because Arctic Burn was nerfed hard.
|
United States47024 Posts
Or you have Blink Dagger, Blink up, and hit them each once. And the Blink Dagger happens to be a more useful item in literally every other conceivable scenario.
EDIT: Are you perhaps reading the incorrect DotA 2 Wiki description that says you can attack the same target and refresh the burn duration, rather than the PlayDotA/Liquipedia description that correctly says that the debuff does not reapply to the same target once you've hit them once?
|
Yup, Blink will probably be used. You're right that it's the default item to get on every hero in the game. But still, MoM does in fact have some merit to it.
No, Yango, I heard you the first time. At this point, let's just wait and see. Blink'll probably be the build of choice to start, because you can escape into the trees, but I do think we'll see some MoM builds showing up.
|
United States47024 Posts
On February 13 2015 03:27 Acritter wrote:
No, Yango, I heard you the first time.
Ok, cuz i just realized Sn0's earlier post said something about reapplying it to the relevant target, when there's no option to reapply it.
It's why attack speed is pointless, because after hitting each target once, you go back to your regular shitty autoattacks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/thumb/c/c7/Winter_Wyvern_Large.png/250px-Winter_Wyvern_Large.png)
