EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 383
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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maru~
2345 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 29 2013 01:57 Sn0_Man wrote: Lich is still boss mid but doesn't bring enough to the midgame anymore. Lich also loses to a lot of mids who can boss him around at level 1. If he can deny at will, you'll bleed a lot of XP, but a strong mid laner that's more powerful level 1 can just force him off the creep wave because his level 1 is weak regardless of which spell you take. And denying all 4 of your creeps plus getting the lasthits 3 of Lich's actually puts you ahead of Lich on XP (the XP lost on 4 denies is more than the XP lost on Sacrificing a creep). | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I mean, I guess qop/windrunner might be rough matchups, but I don't see how they get every last hit against you  . If nothing else you can just mess up the other guy's lasthits and win by nobody getting them (since you are getting those free denies). On March 29 2013 02:32 Firebolt145 wrote: Yango how do you know the math of it so well -_- I'm pretty sure ranged heroes get exactly 1/2 xp from denied creeps so the math aint so hard. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On March 29 2013 02:41 TheYango wrote: No, denies are worth exactly 18 xp to a ranged hero. Melee/ranged creeps are worth 62 and 41 xp respectively so denying denies 44 xp on melee creeps and 23 xp on ranged. or that :3 | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
On March 29 2013 02:37 Sn0_Man wrote: Yeah, but as a 550 range with decent damage/animation (although a sketchy projectile) I wouldn't say there are "a lot" of mids who can perfect 7/7 him at level 1 in lane (without paying a serious price in harass if nothing else). Although a mid lich probably is still responsible for at least 1 support item which would mean he'd be behind the opponent on regen or stat items in some manner (most likely). I mean, I guess qop/windrunner might be rough matchups, but I don't see how they get every last hit against you . If nothing else you can just mess up the other guy's lasthits and win by nobody getting them (since you are getting those free denies). I'm pretty sure ranged heroes get exactly 1/2 xp from denied creeps so the math aint so hard. Melee heroes get 50%, ranged heroes get 30% of denied XP. | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On March 29 2013 01:42 AirbladeOrange wrote: When did normal laning turn from 2 people in the middle to one person? I think sometime later in the 6.3x era. Before that, it was dual mid for most of the time except when people sent the boss heroes of the day to face off each other in 1v1, like Lich, Silencer, Shadow Fiend and also the broken Visage :D Most likely the introduction of PotM and Bottle was the final change needed to make solo mid become standard. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
On March 29 2013 03:44 EtherealBlade wrote: I think sometime later in the 6.3x era. Before that, it was dual mid for most of the time except when people sent the boss heroes of the day to face off each other in 1v1, like Lich, Silencer, Shadow Fiend and also the broken Visage :D Most likely the introduction of PotM and Bottle was the final change needed to make solo mid become standard. Woah this is like 6+ years ago and even then I don't remember this. | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On March 29 2013 03:46 Firebolt145 wrote: Woah this is like 6+ years ago and even then I don't remember this. I think much of these habits varied by server so people might have different experiences of these times, but I'm definitely sure that PotM and Bottle was a huge shift in the metagame. The next one would be the Blink Dagger nerf. After all, rune control wasn't so important as there weren't many ganks, pulling was not possible/invented so the easy/hard lanes were considered to be the exact opposites of today (sentinel top was easy). Middle was the place for dual ranged. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On March 29 2013 03:50 EtherealBlade wrote: I think much of these habits varied by server so people might have different experiences of these times, but I'm definitely sure that PotM and Bottle was a huge shift in the metagame. The next one would be the Blink Dagger nerf. After all, rune control wasn't so important as there weren't many ganks, pulling was not possible/invented so the easy/hard lanes were considered to be the exact opposites of today (sentinel top was easy). Middle was the place for dual ranged. My brain is hurting | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 29 2013 03:50 EtherealBlade wrote: I think much of these habits varied by server so people might have different experiences of these times, but I'm definitely sure that PotM and Bottle was a huge shift in the metagame. The next one would be the Blink Dagger nerf. After all, rune control wasn't so important as there weren't many ganks, pulling was not possible/invented so the easy/hard lanes were considered to be the exact opposites of today (sentinel top was easy). Middle was the place for dual ranged. I still remember when Beastmaster broke the game with the mid pulling. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
On March 29 2013 03:46 Firebolt145 wrote: Woah this is like 6+ years ago and even then I don't remember this. Yeah, I'm thinking of a long time ago. I only played pubs then and every game was just 2 heroes mid without anyone questioning it or doing anything different. | ||
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10734
340 Posts
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
I assume it's really just tether stun if possible, overcharge your hardest carry, spirits and expand to try and hit everyone? Also for items, even if sidelane with another bottle user mid should I go bottle after boots or just go right for urn? | ||
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Kazzoo
France368 Posts
As with all supports, mostly survive. If you focus too hard on hitting tether stuns, you'll just die. Ideally your carry should have the better mobility and you just position so he does, but pubs are pubs. | ||
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eng.nayR
United States468 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On March 29 2013 07:38 10734 wrote: Should I ever get a scepter early on clockwork? or just as a luxury? when you are ahead, why not. When you are not then you better go for more useful items. | ||
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