EPTPlaying Tinker - Your One Stop Tinker Guide - Page 5
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8778 Posts
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NTTemplar
609 Posts
However you can always clear the small camp while stacking the big camp and many small camp spawns are weak enough that you can just march inbetween the two and still kill it in time to stack. Aside from that you are significantly more exposed to ganks and getting camps blocked if you try to jungle the three camps as radiant. Everytime mid wants to gank he will mostly go through you, many people ward at least one spawn so that is one less camp immediatly along with being ganked more likely. As an added bonus, jungling as tinker tends to be courier heavy, and doing the camps that are closer to base makes it a lot easier, also as radiant you are literally next to mid so you can time it with mid getting items. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8778 Posts
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On July 30 2013 20:49 FFGenerations wrote: my tinker record (solo/ungrouped pubs) is now something like 3-13. i generally go 3-0, 4-0 and delay a lot of players, then spend the next 40 minutes screaming at the team to group up and stop dying 1v5, 2v5. i think i've dropped into shit tier. people dont know what tinker even does ("why do you keep going back to base asshole?" "why does their warlock have 4 golems?"). my friend told me to make sure i'm not stealing farm, and suggested i LEAD any push (rather than screaming at them to group up, because they wont), and this helps. also i think in 10 games only like 1 person has warded (except for me) which is pretty telling that im in shit tier. tinker is freakin awesome but doesn't appear to be someone you can win with in pubs unless your team also out-carries the opposition (ie 1-2-carry team autoloses to 3-5 carry team after 55 minutes). you can keep the game running for a long time but dont have enough impact to carry the game in any way. you can scream at your team in caps 100 times to push when you have an advantage but it doesnt mean they will listen sounds like you might be taking too much farm from your team and not building the right items. If you go blink sheep it's pretty hard to lose in pubs with thinker, dagon5 into eblade also does a good job ending games quick. So long as your team has some heros that scale into late game, if you go blink sheep and just turtle it should be pretty hard to lose. It seems that you screaming at your team is probably the number one cause of the loss, regardless of what heros anyone is playing and how well the game is going, screaming at your teammates will cause you to lose the game pretty much no matter what.. | ||
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NTTemplar
609 Posts
On August 08 2013 23:35 evilfatsh1t wrote: what stage of the game are we talking about? im definitely not talking about lvls 1-5 where you dont even have rearm to help you farm. by the time tinker has lvl 6 however, there will not be a ward blocking any camps in 99% of cases because most people dont block after the first 6 mins. you should definitely have a rune ward at bot to see if their mid is coming your way, and just keeping an eye on bot lane to see if their players rotate through the jungles should be enough to keep you safe. the distance the courier has to travel is a minor issue, definitely not big enough to warrant not using the middle camps, and you have the added bonus of being the first to bot rune every 2mins. and 2 stacks of lvl 2 marches is sufficient to clear middle camps with auto attacks. 2 stacks of lvl 3 marches allows you to hit the big creeps and let the middle camps die on their own, unless you get unlucky with the march hits and some survive on tiny hp Well jungling, so from lvl 1, the person I replied to at first said he didn't get mid and tried ancient stacking which ended poorly, so I suggested jungel instead. Going for the 3 camps is definitely viable and actually very good when hitting lvl 6 if you have opted for a soul ring prior to midas or if you are going straight BoT, or even if you are just at near full mana. But I agree the courier isn't a problem, its just nice to not occupy it all that much over teammates, hence "added bonus" was ment to mean just a nice extra without any meaningfull significance. But as you pointed out you would need two lvl 2 marches+auto attack to kill the medium camps and that is why its very bad to go for the three camps over the 2 camps when doing a jungle tinker, you will be losing stacks half of the time when you have lvl 2 march and since you start with lvl 1 march it will take way more than two marches. The bot rune however is a big benefit of three camps, when/if there comes a good way to kill the camps. | ||
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tompliss
France21 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8778 Posts
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targ
Malaysia445 Posts
On July 19 2013 02:38 TheYango wrote: Laser-Rocket is just also better in pubs. March-build Tinker is only really good in a game where going March lets you farm it out and come to your first teamfight with a major item in hand (otherwise it only farms and applies map pressure, which pub teammates tend not to be coordinated enough to take advantage of). The superior ganking and solo-killing ability of Laser-Rocket is just better for the way pubs typically play. The flip side of this is that March build doesn't have any ganking presence and unreliable teamfight presence (decent AoE sustained damage, but no burst damage which is what typically decides early-midgame teamfights), so being able to farm fast isn't useful if your team loses every teamfight, and all your T1s go down really early because the mid hero had no presence in said fights. With the way the game plays right now, you just can't go into pub games with a farming mindset. Whenever the option to kill people and take advantages from that are available you have to do it. As 2009 said about this version, "if you're not killing people, you're just waiting to die." I'm curious, is early March viable in competitive games? So far all the pro games where I've seen Tinker appear max out Laser and Rocket first to kill heroes. | ||
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faldoto
78 Posts
On August 14 2013 18:45 targ wrote: I'm curious, is early March viable in competitive games? So far all the pro games where I've seen Tinker appear max out Laser and Rocket first to kill heroes. That is not true. Zenith's xy tinker maxes march and I believe so does Bulba's. Are you sure those games you watched are competitive games? | ||
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Jrix
United States12 Posts
Few things in the thread I want to address. 1) He is imo by far and away, the best hero to win matches when your team is shit. 2) You CANNOT shift-queue blink when it's on CD from being damaged, You can however spam blink while you're rearming. 3) Stop thinking "How fast can I get bots" and start thinking "how fast can I get bots, soul ring, bottle, and blink dagger". Sometimes soul ring before bots is faster, sometimes bots before bottle is faster. You must adapt. 4) He pairs very well with super late game carries due to being the best turtler in the game. 5) If you do ancients, don't roll dice. Start out with a sentry and ward. 6) He wrecks furion. I'm curious, is early March viable in competitive games? So far all the pro games where I've seen Tinker appear max out Laser and Rocket first to kill heroes. Eh? The vast majority of "pro" games consist of march. If you go laser/rocket, I must INSIST you buy a smoke of deceit. I tend to go laser/rocket if I have evidence that one of my laners has an IQ above toast. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
is it only used when your mana reaches ~0? i don't see why it would be used otherwise | ||
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Shootemup.
United States1044 Posts
On August 15 2013 05:11 FFGenerations wrote: can you explain when exactly soul ring is used? is it only used when your mana reaches ~0? i don't see why it would be used otherwise Rearm refreshes Soul Ring. You use it every time you Rearm, this nullifies the mana cost of Lvl 1 Rearm, which makes your mana go way farther when repeatedly Rearming. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On August 15 2013 05:11 FFGenerations wrote: can you explain when exactly soul ring is used? is it only used when your mana reaches ~0? i don't see why it would be used otherwise Use it before you rearm. Helps to mitigate the heavy cost of Rearm until you get into the late-game and have Hex + another mana item and it's trivial. It also makes your stints at the fountain much shorter, which can make all the difference in the world when split pushing or trying to get back to a lane to help teamfight or gank. It also comes in handy if you blow all your mana fighting and have none to blink or teleport back to base to regen. The guy above who said Tinker shits on Furion is completely correct, and I hadn't made that connection yet. Why didn't any TI3 teams try to counter Bulldog's Furion this way? Tinker isn't the best mid, but he's not the worst either, and can go toe-to-toe with many heroes if he's played correctly. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8778 Posts
otherwise teams may just not like tinker because it doesnt suit their style or picks? Not every team have strong tinker players He cant go mid against the popular pick ups right now like od or puck. Even qop does well against him. Has to be in the safe lane farming but most teams would rather just try to pick up an alch then. | ||
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Jrix
United States12 Posts
On August 15 2013 10:52 evilfatsh1t wrote: tinker only shits on furion when furion insists on farming lanes and split pushing. Bulldog likes farming jungles and ancients a lot more. Cant pick tinker to try and shut down a jungling furion. otherwise teams may just not like tinker because it doesnt suit their style or picks? Not every team have strong tinker players He cant go mid against the popular pick ups right now like od or puck. Even qop does well against him. Has to be in the safe lane farming but most teams would rather just try to pick up an alch then. What in the world are you talking about? Every Furion worth his salt split pushes to take advantage of the enemy's position being far away to force tps or to bring down towers and bases. Bulldog does this ALL THE TIME. I have literally never met a furion that split/farms lanes as opposed to jungling, ever, not once. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34498 Posts
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734pot
Australia294 Posts
How effective is manta on tinker? I've never actually tried it, but from what I've seen its sort of a pretty old school build. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8778 Posts
On August 15 2013 19:20 Jrix wrote: What in the world are you talking about? Every Furion worth his salt split pushes to take advantage of the enemy's position being far away to force tps or to bring down towers and bases. Bulldog does this ALL THE TIME. I have literally never met a furion that split/farms lanes as opposed to jungling, ever, not once. ? wtf are you talking about. im not saying bulldog never farms lanes you idiot. im saying he prioritises farming jungles and ancients when his other 2 cores can take the available lanes. sometimes he even leaves lanes for the supports to take too. obviously he will take the lane if he is the only one who can take advantage of the enemy's position, thats what a furion does. but that isnt what im talking about. and i hope your last sentence is a mistake because otherwise the stupidity in your post reaches baffling levels. On August 15 2013 21:03 734pot wrote: Unless I'm pretty assured of getting a lot of early kills with rocket laser I find it pretty risky to go for it. March is actually pretty good in low-mid tier pubs imo, people nearly always underestimate its power, and I find i nearly always get a decent timing on my travels if I get it. How effective is manta on tinker? I've never actually tried it, but from what I've seen its sort of a pretty old school build. back when you could rearm bkb and there was no ghost scepter/eblade, manta was usually the 5th/6th item. "carry" tinker build. just bkb manta hex shiva throw all your spells and repeat. was actually pretty strong, not so much anymore User was warned for this post | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
really situational though | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I mean, tinker already needs about 18 million gold and its not like he is particularly gankable once he gets blink right now... The reason I'm thinking about it is because tinker had a really bad winrate at TI3 and is not particularly picked up much. | ||
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