Playing Tinker - Your One Stop Tinker Guide - Page 6

? wtf are you talking about.
im not saying bulldog never farms lanes you idiot. im saying he prioritises farming jungles and ancients when his other 2 cores can take the available lanes. sometimes he even leaves lanes for the supports to take too. obviously he will take the lane if he is the only one who can take advantage of the enemy's position, thats what a furion does. but that isnt what im talking about. and i hope your last sentence is a mistake because otherwise the stupidity in your post reaches baffling levels.

On August 16 2013 08:05 Jrix wrote:


First, let's make this clear, the REASON Tinker counters Furion so well is that he nullifies his ability to split push down towers, and to a lesser extent, to split push in general.
Whereas other heroes must waste a tp, removing a hero from the teamfight, Tinker doesn't have that problem.

You initially suggested that Tinker doesn't counter him because he jungles. That has nothing to do with anything.

My last sentence was not a mistake. I have never seen a Furion, in pubs or in competitive matches split farm AS OPPOSED to jungling. This is an utter strawman argument. They always start out jungling.

So perhaps then, you meant Furion jungles then continually splits farms lanes for the rest of the game. So why does Tinker counter him specifically in that situation and not the split pushing one? Is it because he's vulnerable "more often"? Because when you're dealing with a global presence, there's no such thing as degrees of vulnerability, you either are or you aren't.

On August 16 2013 13:11 evilfatsh1t wrote:
By that logic kotl and wisp are also counters to furion because they can instantly bring someone into a fight who is on the other side of the map disrupting furions pushes. Being able to handle furions split pushing doesnt make u a counter to him. A counter to someone is a hero who is capable of absolutely destroying an enemy heros chances of getting levels and items or nullifying the heros impact in games. Tinker cant do this if furion just sits in jungles and farms. Being able to handle one aspect of furions gameplay doesnt make you a counter.

Tinker only counters Furion's ability to split push down towers if he can beat him in a 1v1 manfight. Obviously this varies game-to-game, but just getting to the other side to combat the split push is only half the battle. The other half is making sure you have the firepower to drive Furion off.

On August 17 2013 01:19 Jrix wrote:


A "Counter" is if one hero is one team, it decreases the winrate of the hero on the opposing team. It's not about "destroying" them. Shadow Demon Counters Naix, Naix however will always wreck SD's face in in a 1v1 fight.

In this respect, Wisp and Tinker are considered strong counters to Furion in competitive play, and Kotl is a soft counter. Furion's teamfight presence is one of the lowest in the entire game, even with farm. If it weren't for his split pushing ability he'd never be picked. It's not just "one aspect" of the hero, it's a significant one.



That's just not true at all. Blink/Marching can ward off his pushes trivially even with half the farm of a furion.

On August 17 2013 02:58 NTTemplar wrote:
Prior to a hex/orchid on furion, a tinker has laser which takes away furions main dmg, his attack, furion isn't particularly tanky either so tinker nukes him well. He doesn't have an innate escape nor particularly good movespeed, his main advantage is global presence, however since tinker can follow him everywhere this makes him very weak to tinker.

A furion with hex or orchid can cause some trouble for a tinker, but once tinker follows up with his own hex furion gets destroyed by tinker, also a tinker often opts for a ghost scepter which makes furions autoattack useless yet again.

Tinker is definitely a counter to furion, in the sense that at every stage of the game tinker can greatly reduce the impact a furion has, from beating him early due to nukes and blind and being able to follow him once BoT is acquired, then mid game tinker can prevent most of his dmg output with laser in teamfights and with a ghost scepter is pretty much able to 1v1 him at all times and thus stopping all his pushes, late game tinker is very strong and can disable him through either hex or e-blade for fights, and can easily kill him with perma hex and nuke.

seems easy on paper. how many times have you seen a tinker outfarm a furion without getting fed? how many times have you seen a tinker solo kill a furion that has equal farm, let alone a furion who is outfarming you. worst case scenario for the furion is he will just run, because you have nothing to stop him. how do you intend on following furion around everywhere when he decides to just farm ancients and jungles? tinker cant keep up with furions farm no matter how hard he tries, all he can do is mitigate the damage furion does to towers. once again, split pushing is only half of furions game. the other half is him showing up at a teamfight with an earlier mek than your team's, or an earlier hex than your team's.

seems easy on paper. how many times have you seen a tinker outfarm a furion without getting fed? how many times have you seen a tinker solo kill a furion that has equal farm, let alone a furion who is outfarming you. worst case scenario for the furion is he will just run, because you have nothing to stop him. how do you intend on following furion around everywhere when he decides to just farm ancients and jungles? tinker cant keep up with furions farm no matter how hard he tries, all he can do is mitigate the damage furion does to towers. once again, split pushing is only half of furions game. the other half is him showing up at a teamfight with an earlier mek than your team's, or an earlier hex than your team's.

On August 17 2013 10:07 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Tinker that goes for laser rocket with bot bottle soul ring and blink is 400 short of a furion with treads midas and shadow blade. Have fun killing that. Also, because you went laser rocket have fun trying to comfortably keep up with farm when youre throwing lvl 1 marches everywhere. Why do you assume furion is just going to stand in lane and let you tp to his face and 'perma hex' him. If that happens in your games a lot i question the quality of your opponents.

Oops i forgot to factor in the cost of brown boots for tinker. So now his items not only cost more but he gets them slower courtesy of midas. Good luck keeping up in farm if you went laser rocket once again. Good luck killing him at all if you went march

On August 17 2013 17:45 evilfatsh1t wrote:
are you kidding me? dota isnt starcraft. you cant pick a build order and know already how the game is going to be played out 5-10mins from now. thats not how dota works, and the fact that you think you will be able to farm the same items at the same timings and then purely theorycraft on how you will be able to kill furion just shows how little your knowledge of dota actually is. i could make up an argument right now about how furion could prevent being jumped on by tinker even if he tp's to the wave behind etc etc, but i dont want to turn this discussion into a "if he does this maybe he will be able to kill so and so, and if so and so does this maybe he will be able to successfully dodge tinker". i give up trying to convince you guys so unless someone else comes with something new to say im gonna stop here.

On August 18 2013 03:34 evilfatsh1t wrote:
the build itself isnt bad. its how well you can play the hero with that build. if you find your supports are very active and you have a lot of map control laser rocket will dominate the early game for you. getting lvl 2 rearm at lvl 11 is better than waiting to max all 3 skills though.