EPTTeam Liquid Discussion - Page 83
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bluzi
4703 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On August 07 2016 01:32 bluzi wrote: Good luck against Navi , I am 100% sure its not the drafts , its the plays(or missplays) , they got alot of heroes they run alot , something in their play isnt the same , they arent clicking anymore like they used too , not sure what happened .... only reasonable explanation is pressure , they came in as one of the fav to win it all , and once things started slow (for whatever reason) they couldnt pick themselves up , I think that if they get to the Bo3 they will do fine and will show us that they are Elite level , but that Bo1 vs Navi is no walk in the park , Navi is the kind of team that can explode and win vs any team out there. Grats to getting into upper bracket. I hope we get to play vs alliance on our way through LB. Would be epic as always;) | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
On August 07 2016 01:32 bluzi wrote: Good luck against Navi , I am 100% sure its not the drafts , its the plays(or missplays) , they got alot of heroes they run alot , something in their play isnt the same , they arent clicking anymore like they used too , not sure what happened .... only reasonable explanation is pressure , they came in as one of the fav to win it all , and once things started slow (for whatever reason) they couldnt pick themselves up , I think that if they get to the Bo3 they will do fine and will show us that they are Elite level , but that Bo1 vs Navi is no walk in the park , Navi is the kind of team that can explode and win vs any team out there. Most of the drafting as a whole has been pretty poor though. Dunno if you saw them all but first pick bat has been countered hard several times and MC has been less than spectacular on it, but still first picking it is just the easiest example. But, they definitely haven't been clicking the same. Dunno how many times I saw Matu eblade the person FATA was omni slashing. Hopefully 2 days between groups and bracket they can find what they need to make a run, but they shouldn't be favored against NaVi (who are actually terrifying in a Bo1) or NB/EG. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
They stopped using their biggest strength - punishing very hard enemy mistakes. Just watch closely how many times they were scared to go highground vs DC if nothing else just to force BuyBacks, yes they may lose a hero or two, but forcing enemy carry to BB @ 60 mins moves you just 1 kill away from the win. Don't even want to talk about why Fata was highgrouding when Matu had the Aegis vs DC - the Alch Ursa game... I think the pressure got to them this TI, and they are either trying to fit in to the meta with a weird lineup they are not comfortable with, or trying to play heroes they like when the draft forbids it. Hopefully they can put their shit together and start playing as a unit, we all know this team can win against anybody and should be favoured against most teams, they just have to calm down and play their own game. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
They used to absolutely smash teams with Razor/ Viper mid and Matumba on Gyro/ Ursa, Jerax roaming on Tusk/ ES with Kuro on something with high healing/ saving potential and MC on his Dark Seer. Now Kuro only plays greedy passive 4 supports and Jerax babysits whatever lane needs it. MC struggles to have any impact in their games and ends up bottom 3 farm together with Jerax and Kuro while Matumba and Fata run around farming without any plans to take objectives and eventually running into 3 cores on the other side. Where's the Liquid that got 6 on Matumba ganked some noob and killed his tower? Really frustrating to watch how they've deviated from their strengths to play a worse version of what other teams play. Some passive farming BS that doesn't seem to fit their players at all. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Anamorph
236 Posts
On August 07 2016 08:02 Saechiis wrote: TL used to be really dominant with their short cooldown brawling lineups with high sustain and good laning. I don't understand why they've come to play greedy cores that are weak in lane like alchemist and morphling when their strength was to play less greedy cores that made their lanes strong and allowed their supports to roam and snowball the game to where their cores would be atop the net worth charts regardless. They used to absolutely smash teams with Razor/ Viper mid and Matumba on Gyro/ Ursa, Jerax roaming on Tusk/ ES with Kuro on something with high healing/ saving potential and MC on his Dark Seer. Now Kuro only plays greedy passive 4 supports and Jerax babysits whatever lane needs it. MC struggles to have any impact in their games and ends up bottom 3 farm together with Jerax and Kuro while Matumba and Fata run around farming without any plans to take objectives and eventually running into 3 cores on the other side. Where's the Liquid that got 6 on Matumba ganked some noob and killed his tower? Really frustrating to watch how they've deviated from their strengths to play a worse version of what other teams play. Some passive farming BS that doesn't seem to fit their players at all. This is a problem a lot of drafter had the last time. I am just pointing out the greedy 4th. Ppy for a long time started to spamm Axe Jungle and give EE a weak offlane, Misery managed to go full 4th on DC too and give no space to saksa who is just in terms of playerskill the better player.... and they all struggled hard. I am not sure were this is coming from, those greedy 4th position, but I am not a fan of. Clockwerk 4th, nyx 4th, kuro should just stop this. It feels like he takes too long to adapt IN tournaments but is one of the most skilled drafters when it comes to adjust for the NEXT tournament. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
it used to be that they could run DP or DK every game, especially with the onset of drow picks, but no longer. why is it that they're picked much more infrequently? well, it seems like the breakpoints or timings for items, breaking highground and having good standing in the game has a hand in which team picks what. ember vs meepo is a bad example, but is one nontheless. if meepo can have a regular game and have normal timings, ember has difficulty. but if ember takes over earlier than he should, he can be a viable way of dealing with the hero professional players compared to say pubs are much more diligent about applying the right pressure and making it a consistent thing, completely dissuading certain picks in specific scenarios. perhaps they're looking for a more beautiful game where multiple farmed heroes naturally take over, having an elegant way of dealing with 3-5 man pushes without losing out. greedy 4ths go back to frankfurt and shanghai where doom was being put in. enchantress and chen to a lesser degree were first pick material. i think the changes in the offlane owed itself to the safelanes being able to reliably zone or take control of the lane, very early on. and so, if you somehow get away with it, accepting the losses that come first, your opponents have early game heroes relying on execution to pull through while you can perform on heroes with stronger and greedier kits. the later it goes, the more advantage creeps up. | ||
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fajo
18 Posts
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f0xteam
79 Posts
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On August 07 2016 04:22 giftdgecko wrote: Most of the drafting as a whole has been pretty poor though. Dunno if you saw them all but first pick bat has been countered hard several times and MC has been less than spectacular on it, but still first picking it is just the easiest example. But, they definitely haven't been clicking the same. Dunno how many times I saw Matu eblade the person FATA was omni slashing. Hopefully 2 days between groups and bracket they can find what they need to make a run, but they shouldn't be favored against NaVi (who are actually terrifying in a Bo1) or NB/EG. We must watch different TI , because i swear to god that Bat is first pick first ban material for all the teams , the hero is the best offlaner currently in the meta bar none , he can dominate certain lanes and he can jungle really fast , you guys are hung up on that Batrider thing way too much , the hero is amazing in the current meta so of course they want to get it. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
And I mean in Liquid's case, no matter how good Bat is, if you have to play it against Slark, Shadow Demon, Axe and Abaddon in the same game that hero is literally a dead pick. It's like playing 4v5 with an extra body on the field that does nothing except Flamebreak every now and then. That being said, I hate Alchemist picks more than Bat picks. And I especially hate both heroes in the same draft. It's like there's literally no damage or punish potential, and even laning is hard. By the way, I watched some of the replays, and there's definitely something going on with Fata, like maximum tilt for the entirety of the last day. There was a situation in game 2 vs DC where BM smoked mid, the smoke broke and Fata had like 2 seconds to just walk away and avoid getting roared, but he doesn't move an inch and BM just walks up and roars. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Anyways I'm really happy the boys are at TI, obviously the weight of the tournament is getting to them which could always be expected. I just hope they regain their composure, give us a decent showing and remain owning under the TL Banner after TI | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
On August 08 2016 19:02 bluzi wrote: We must watch different TI , because i swear to god that Bat is first pick first ban material for all the teams , the hero is the best offlaner currently in the meta bar none , he can dominate certain lanes and he can jungle really fast , you guys are hung up on that Batrider thing way too much , the hero is amazing in the current meta so of course they want to get it. I def haven't seen all the games, but watching liquid play on day 3 it was like: here comes the bat pick, then it's countered hard. Oracle, Nyx,, Venge, linkin carries, all pretty common in this meta (even aghs abbadon was used one game). Obviously there are other issues like the alch picks that do nothing, FATA's tilted play and the coordination just not being there, but the stubbornness with the bat is just the easy example. Hopefully we are just looking too much into it and they were having a bad couple of days, they did stomp NB and EHome for a game each | ||
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Kyir
United States1047 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Liquid peak style | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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icystorage
Jollibee19343 Posts
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