EPTEvil Geniuses Discussion - Page 144
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Gaial
United States313 Posts
The drafts were questionable, especially the PL pick, and game 2 Wyvern (since it obviously didn't workout in game 1). Then again, they were ahead in both games against Newbee and Empire, but a combination of not performing to their potential, misplays, and Newbee/Empire playing well caused them to lose. I would like this iteration to stay together, since I don't think they can get anyone better. Look at Newbee. Ti6: Got to upper bracket against EG and got 2-0'd. 1 year later, they stay together, get upper bracket again, and then 2-0'd EG. | ||
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HotGlueGun
United States1409 Posts
I am also disappointed in Fear/SVG as they should have helped cr1t make a gameplan since we know cr1t struggles with the captain/shotcalling aspect of the game. EG looked like they didn't prepare for Empire at all. | ||
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ChickenDieAlive
699 Posts
On August 10 2017 02:35 Gaial wrote: I think people are jumping ship way too fast. It's not like EG was unbeatable with PPD and Fear. The drafts were questionable, especially the PL pick, and game 2 Wyvern (since it obviously didn't workout in game 1). Then again, they were ahead in both games against Newbee and Empire, but a combination of not performing to their potential, misplays, and Newbee/Empire playing well caused them to lose. I would like this iteration to stay together, since I don't think they can get anyone better. Look at Newbee. Ti6: Got to upper bracket against EG and got 2-0'd. 1 year later, they stay together, get upper bracket again, and then 2-0'd EG. Their biggest problems, poor leadership and bad shotcalling, haven't been fixed at all since last year. I think they need a change. They need a real captain like PPD. Also, I'm a big fan of Resolution. I hope EG buy him out. I have nothing against RTZ but safe lane carry isn't his strongest position. | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
On August 10 2017 02:35 Gaial wrote: Look at Newbee. Ti6: Got to upper bracket against EG and got 2-0'd. 1 year later, they stay together, get upper bracket again, and then 2-0'd EG. The only members that are the same from the TI6 Newbee roster are kpii and Kaka. And they changed captain to Faith from Kaka when they got the new roster | ||
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Gaial
United States313 Posts
I think Cr1t- has room to grow as a captain. The idea of flexing picks like Puck and PotM got them too far away from what they were doing well with Io and better heroes for Sumail; and they tried to be too cute as Timado said. PPD was the exception, no one becomes a good captain in a year. Look at Puppey, Fly, and Kuroky. None of them became great captains in a year, and each has had many crushing losses. Everything is magnified because this is TI and because of expectations. But this roster can definitely be better. On August 10 2017 04:13 TomatoBisque wrote: The only members that are the same from the TI6 Newbee roster are kpii and Kaka. And they changed captain to Faith from Kaka when they got the new roster You're right, Idk why I thought the roster was the same. | ||
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BigO
Sweden956 Posts
On August 10 2017 04:25 Gaial wrote: Resolution is not better than Arteezy. Don't forget his team failed to qualify for TI, plus having a less than mediocre group stage. Yes, he's played well on main stage, but that was against C9 (a high potential team that choked @ TI) and superior drafts against EG. I think Cr1t- has room to grow as a captain. The idea of flexing picks like Puck and PotM got them too far away from what they were doing well with Io and better heroes for Sumail; and they tried to be too cute as Timado said. PPD was the exception, no one becomes a good captain in a year. Look at Puppey, Fly, and Kuroky. None of them became great captains in a year, and each has had many crushing losses. Everything is magnified because this is TI and because of expectations. But this roster can definitely be better. You're right, Idk why I thought the roster was the same. Reso is probably better then RTZ though. RTZ has been on teams with alot more starpower then Reso ever has, still Reso has had more success at TI. Also (and this is just based on feel so it may be off) Reso seems more likely to actually carry his team to victory, RTZ just farms well and that's it. Idk, I just feel that as a carry right now, RTZ is not really anything special outside of his farming abilities. Alot of other carry players are way more clutch, has better decisionmaking which leads to actually carrying their team. With all that said, EG loosing to Newbee/Empire was a team effort, no one really played like a winner in any of those games. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
all 3 are top notch right now, you can't get anyone better and feel a real difference Zai is great but when you compare him to YapzOr/GH/Lil/Jerax he doesn't stack up at all at 4Position carry jesus And Cr1t just isn't a good enough leader and shot caller altho a greatly skilled player For them to be unstoppable, they need to get e.g. YapzOr and PPD And crush everyone | ||
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ChickenDieAlive
699 Posts
On August 10 2017 04:25 Gaial wrote: Resolution is not better than Arteezy. Don't forget his team failed to qualify for TI, plus having a less than mediocre group stage. Yes, he's played well on main stage, but that was against C9 (a high potential team that choked @ TI) and superior drafts against EG. I think Cr1t- has room to grow as a captain. The idea of flexing picks like Puck and PotM got them too far away from what they were doing well with Io and better heroes for Sumail; and they tried to be too cute as Timado said. PPD was the exception, no one becomes a good captain in a year. Look at Puppey, Fly, and Kuroky. None of them became great captains in a year, and each has had many crushing losses. Everything is magnified because this is TI and because of expectations. But this roster can definitely be better. You're right, Idk why I thought the roster was the same. Resolution is always solid. Even when Odd played like shit, he still delivered. If you watch Empire games in the group stage, Reso played really well most of the time. So yes, I think Reso > RTZ in term of safe lane carry. I don't think Crit's captaining style works for EG. EG has too many egoistic players. They need someone like PPD to lay down the law. Anyway, I'm sure there will be a roster change. This result is too much of a disappointment to keep this roster together. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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pique
143 Posts
On August 10 2017 10:22 HaXxorIzed wrote: As much as Crit's style of leadership may be too democratic, the fact question remains if the other players are prepared to tolerate a dictatorial approach again. One hopes the performance will be a wakeup call as to the importance of having someone who can crack the whip leadership wise, at least. What makes you say Crit's leadership is overly democratic? Do we really know all that much about the way EG operates as a team? In what sense did ppd "crack the whip"? | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
On August 10 2017 12:12 pique wrote: What makes you say Crit's leadership is overly democratic? Do we really know all that much about the way EG operates as a team? In what sense did ppd "crack the whip"? As a starting point, we could go here, and note this is consistent with Arteezy's own TI7 interview here, or his original frustrations with ppd in 2015. Other figures have also noted the differences with ppd's style in other interviews, which includes Fear. I'd also note this idea of ppd as a dictator does mesh with ppd's own words of what he values in a player, as noted in his frustrations with Aui blog post. It also isn't unreasonable to note that if this ppd was quite authoritarian is true, it does line up with changes in their play/drafting. Under crit's captaincy, EG are much less risk averse, seem to have less direction in the drafts and are more willing to take take fights instead of securing their 20k+ item leads. In a sense, they have have shifted the focus away from "you have to outplay us" to more of a "we will outplay you" approach, and certainly appear less disciplined - which meshes will with the idea EG's own players have given that ppd was a dictator. | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On August 10 2017 10:10 DucK- wrote: I guess they got way too cute with their drafts for their own good. Flexible reactionary drafting rather than having a gameplan from the start. Yep, their flashes of amazing execution imo mean they could have played with anyone, but somehow they decided that they could win games by confusing the other team during the draft stage. No opposing captain cares that they don't know who's going on which hero if their team synergy clobbers EG's team synergy. EG should have just picked clear, easy to execute strats and their superior skills would have carried them through. They outdrafted themselves instead. To me one cannot even evaluate their skill accurately, because whoever is playing from a huge draft disadvantage in a game of dota will always look bad. One can say cr1t sucked or zai didn't show his peak form or sumail couldn't dominate, but what was their ceiling when playing at such a disadvantage? Show me this set of five players willing to draft playable teams and I'll show you a lot more success. But I doubt they can stay together interpersonally/emotionally. Something like this TI7 performance is just too much strain. | ||
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Bodhi
United States180 Posts
Universe retires. H'es already a millionaire and let's face it, he's not going to get any better at his age. Zai moves to offlane. Cr1t moves to 4. PPD comes back as captain. | ||
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Gaial
United States313 Posts
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Doneld G.
61 Posts
One might argue that a 'superstar team' might not work, but to me this roster has the potential, they need 'more' time. I didn't get the chance to see EG's mainstage games live, but seeing the group stage alone, i really thought they were playing around with their drafts, but as it turns out, that was their strats. I agree with the fact that EG should've went with a clear and easy to execute strat. ---- Would it be possible if EG started to play around RTZ and not Sumail? Would it work? From what I see, RTZ is changing his style from the greedy pos 1, to the pos less greedy pos 1, but what if RTZ is given the space to farm greedily while Sumail be the 'carry role? | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On August 13 2017 03:54 Doneld G. wrote: I really hope this roster stays tho, no changes even after that devastating TI loss. One might argue that a 'superstar team' might not work, but to me this roster has the potential, they need 'more' time. I didn't get the chance to see EG's mainstage games live, but seeing the group stage alone, i really thought they were playing around with their drafts, but as it turns out, that was their strats. I agree with the fact that EG should've went with a clear and easy to execute strat. ---- Would it be possible if EG started to play around RTZ and not Sumail? Would it work? From what I see, RTZ is changing his style from the greedy pos 1, to the pos less greedy pos 1, but what if RTZ is given the space to farm greedily while Sumail be the 'carry role? Sumail & RTZ are both farm-y Core players and the current map favors running your Mid as your 1. The Meta took a hard shift away from the normal EG approach going into the Bracket and getting RTZ on the same page as the rest of the team was hard. The other issue is that for as salty as PPD can be, his results over multiple rosters in elimination matches is unparalleled. Cr1t just wasn't there yet, much like Kuroky wasn't there yet either last year. It wasn't a bad year for EG. They won 4 LANs, top 4 at both Majors, but TI7 was an under performance. TI Meta has a hard tendency to shift to early-game approaches and EG just didn't adapt. | ||
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Doneld G.
61 Posts
On August 13 2017 13:41 Taf the Ghost wrote: Sumail & RTZ are both farm-y Core players and the current map favors running your Mid as your 1. The Meta took a hard shift away from the normal EG approach going into the Bracket and getting RTZ on the same page as the rest of the team was hard. The other issue is that for as salty as PPD can be, his results over multiple rosters in elimination matches is unparalleled. Cr1t just wasn't there yet, much like Kuroky wasn't there yet either last year. It wasn't a bad year for EG. They won 4 LANs, top 4 at both Majors, but TI7 was an under performance. TI Meta has a hard tendency to shift to early-game approaches and EG just didn't adapt. Agreed. A few LANs and top 4 at both Boston and Kiev and notably one of the most consistent team throughout the year. The TI result kind of ruined everything else, but I still believe in this roster. | ||
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