EPTThe Manila Major Invites - Page 8
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Gevna
France2332 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
On April 27 2016 23:58 Gevna wrote: Valve had not much of a choice. It was either 4 spots for NA / SEA (which would be ridiculous) or screwing some deserving teams (Col / MVP / Fnatic). So instead of arbitrary telling to Fnatic / col that they are going to qualifers, they just decided to give 12 invites. Well not like Fnatic or Complexity have any trouble winning through qualifier anyway..... | ||
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Gevna
France2332 Posts
On April 28 2016 00:01 ref4 wrote: Well not like Fnatic or Complexity have any trouble winning through qualifier anyway..... Probably, would still be incredibly unfair to arbitrary screw those teams on purpose. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
Oh well, not that fussed. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Aldehyde
Sweden939 Posts
They either had to invite a whole lot more teams than usual or just force everyone into qualifiers. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
I'll have words in a while. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On April 28 2016 00:12 Plansix wrote: Honestly I think Valve is favoring an invite system for teams they know are competing in lots of events to avoid the logistics of qualifiers around those events. Loved the gigantic amount of events EG, OG, Alliance, LGD, Secret and others have been competing in after Shanghai! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 28 2016 01:09 StarVe wrote: Loved the gigantic amount of events EG, OG, Alliance, LGD, Secret and others have been competing in after Shanghai! There was no world where most of those teams were not invited anyways. Even if it was just 8 invites most of those teams get invited. | ||
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calippo
Sweden2525 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
* International tournament results matter more than before. This is obvious from the invite list. The teams that won the recent international tournaments have ALL been invited, while teams that haven't - such as Newbee - have not been invited despite doing well in their own region. This shows that the company is taking care of its third party organizers, and teams are encouraged to both go to, and to do well, in these tournaments. You can't, now, just rest on your back for several months, put together a team at the last minute, and get an invite because you are suddenly doing well in your region. * Chinese teams have got what they deserve. Look at the invite list, then look at the qualify list. Only in China do we have almost all the top organizations fighting for one place. Europe, which we thought would be another similar situation, is not so at all. With Alliance, Natus Vincere, and OG all being an invite, there's no obvious top team in Europe that hasn't got an invite. The only European teams that need to qualify, are teams that deserve to be there for never getting any results. The same is the case for America and Southeast Asia - I don't think anyone can argue that there is another American, else Southeast Asian team that deserves an invite. With five invites for Europe, two for America, and two for Southeast Asia, against just three for China, and only one qualify team, we have what we deserve. Negative: * Old results still matter too much. Why is OG on the list? Why is Xiao8's team an invite? I suppose Xiao8's team being last on the list, we could argue that they were just put in because they were literally the best of the worst invite for China, but OG is different. OG's one top team result was their win back in November last year. There have been a lot of tournaments since then. Why should a result in November matter? I had the same problem with CDEC getting invite after invite for six months after the second at the international. We should not allow a team to simply rest on its past results. In fact, this goes against the purpose of forcing teams to go to and do well in international tournaments, as now, for example, Secret, were they to win Manila, could just stop going to tournaments for the rest of the year. * Why invites for teams that never even got to the final of an international tournament? I'm talking about Complexity here, but you could also argue about Fnatic though I feel Fnatic's invite is easier to argue. As an American, I love the fact that American Dota is getting three teams into Manila, but I do not think we deserve it. Complexity has never gone to the final of a tournament. They have never had the results of even, say, Alliance, who won several tournaments in late 2015 and early 2016. By giving Complexity an invite, we open ourselves to another Team Archon going into the tournament. I do want to see new teams in the tournament, but I want to see them *work* their way there, not get there by their competition getting an invite. The same is capable of being argued for whichever other team is getting through the Southeast Asia qualify. * There are just too many invites. I was looking forward to the qualify tournament, but now I'm not, except to China's, because lelz so many top Chinese teams are going to get shit. But for the rest, you've already invite all the top teams, so we have only bad teams to watch. Further, I feel as though having this many invite goes against the purpose of having the best teams in the tournament after a lot of player changes. I want to see the best teams, and I don't feel as though we are getting the best teams with twelve invites a month after many teams changed their players. They should understand that there were few tournaments, but a lot of team changes, between Shanghai and now, and that what we need, now, is to see these teams play. As it is, we have not seen many of these teams play in international tournaments, and won't, because they only get one team to work with. In the end, I cannot support twelve invites in the future. I always thought that the previous system, with eight, was already enough. Too many invites leads to too many teams going in by past results, and given that we're going all the way back to November last year to get these results, it's no longer the best teams that we're getting into the tournament, but teams that were doing well six months ago. I don't want to see this. I want to see teams that are doing well now and teams working hard all the time. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Valve continues to make terrible choices: China and EU got ROYALLY screwd, 2 trash teams from SEA and NA are going to get free money. I am not watching this major, whatever. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
Fnatic's invite is the least questionable compared to navi, og , alliance , LGD and col. Alliance invite looks good on paper now because valve somehow pulled the criteria that they also value wca and starladder for alliances invite which were before Shanghai major . | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
og col however lol | ||
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kblueriver
Argentina430 Posts
On April 28 2016 02:25 Kamisamanachi wrote: Fnatic's invite is the least questionable compared to navi, og , alliance , LGD and col. Why? What did they do to deserve the invite? Not saying they didn't do anything, saying I honestly don't know what they did. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On April 28 2016 02:33 kblueriver wrote: Why? What did they do to deserve the invite? Not saying they didn't do anything, saying I honestly don't know what they did. Came 3rd at ti5 with 3 of the players from this roster and came 3rd at starladder lan ( where 2nd place was enough to get direct invite for navi , apparently xD). | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On April 28 2016 02:25 Kamisamanachi wrote: ^^lmao..why are people still questioning fnatic's invite ? Do people hate that team or something? Fnatic's invite is the least questionable compared to navi, og , alliance , LGD and col. Alliance invite looks good on paper now because valve somehow pulled the criteria that they also value wca and starladder for alliances invite which were before Shanghai major . MVP and Fnatic are the ONLY two SEA teams that deserve to be a major. When you invite both, another SEA team will come because you can't cancel the quals in any region. MVP won a international tournament, while Fnatic didn't despite having a good chances at ESL Manila, that's why people wanted them in the quals. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On April 28 2016 02:43 ForTehDarkseid wrote: MVP and Fnatic are the ONLY two SEA teams that deserve to be a major. When you invite both, another SEA team will come because you can't cancel the quals in any region. MVP won a international tournament, while Fnatic didn't despite having a good chances at ESL Manila, that's why people wanted them in the quals. No they didn't . most of the casters and analyst had fnatic in their direct invites list . they placed 5th at Shanghai major while beating OG ( which is in direct invites list ) and have been consistently the best team in sea since then beating mvp in 4 qualifier finals while getting 3rd/ 4th in ESL Manila..what more reason do u want for a team which is dominating their entire region including MVP Phoenix too? | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On April 27 2016 17:42 Skynx wrote: Rip China It's exactly what they deserve. In fact, I'd have wanted to know what they'd have done, had two Chinese teams not just win two of the last international tournaments. I think that the teams were told that this was their invite to play for, else they'd have not work this hard. But in both tournaments, we saw that they could've lost, and even early on. Had they lost, would they still have got an invite? I don't think so. Thus, we could've had no invite to China for Manila, in which case, I wonder what they'd have done. Would they have just got the one team? That'd have caused so much talk, but as it is, they only lost one team, which isn't bad at all. | ||
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