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On August 15 2013 06:21 Karok wrote:Wasn't inferring that skill trees were the way to go, just that the current skills (mostly) blow, and they should change them to be more interesting 
The skills in diablo 3 were intresting enough and I liked how the main attack did something, rather than just being a basic attack I never used. They could spice them up and maybe let people invent "points" in them to make them more poweful. But the switch at any point was one of the highlights of the game. I dislike being punished for trying things out.
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Sooo... when you play Starcraft, do you just do the same build order every game?
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On August 15 2013 06:28 TheFish7 wrote:
Sooo... when you play Starcraft, do you just do the same build order every game?
I'm 33 year old, with a house, a girlfriend and brother in the army over seas. You over estimate the number of times I am going to replying Diablo 3 with the same character class.
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My guess. their dota clone is rdy to start and WCS final SC2 season starts and will get then fully replaced by their dota clone
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On August 15 2013 06:10 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:06 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2013 06:04 dAPhREAk wrote:
the story, lol.
the only problem with the d3 story was that i couldn't press spacebar/ESC fast enough to bypass. video game stories are so stupid (all of them) and i hate the amount of dialogue that developers put in their games nowadays. if i wanted to read, i would buy a book.
cutscenes are separate. blizzard has always had the most amazing cutscenes and those are fun to watch. Whoa, whoa whoa, all stories is a bit much. You should play the Walking Dead for a very well writen story. every. fucking. game. i especially hate the newest RPGs where you actually have to make choices and the choices affect the gameplay. dragon age comes to mind. are you evil, or are you nice? fuck. that. i just want to kill shit. every game should have the option of turning off dialogue and stupid stories. kill shit, cutscene of me killing shit in epic fashion, kill more shit. if i wanted to converse, i would move out of my mother's basement.
Na mang. There's this one game from the late 90s called Planescape Torment that actually has a pretty compelling storyline. It goes kinda deep. It never really hit it big in terms of pulling Blizzard-like profits, but it did leave a lasting impression on those who played it, much like reading a solid piece of literature leaves an impression. It wasn't a game with a story that you forgot or clicked past in order to play faster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape:_Torment#Reception
A little blurb about it:
But here I'd like to mention one seminal work by Albert Camus, The Myth of Sisyphus. He compares the situation of humanity to Sisyphus. He had disobeyed gods, and therefore he was condemned to spend eternity in an absurd punishment: everyday he had to push a boulder up to the top of a mountain but the boulder would roll down again. His situation was absurd, and so is ours. We live in a godless universe. (notice that by godless Camus doesn't mean only god as in the creator, but any external source of meaning- Likewise when Nietzsche says "God is dead" he doesn't mean "Yahweh had a heart attack", he means "every transcendental reference is dead). So our life is absurd and meaningless. What should we do? Commit suicide? Camus' answer is no. We have to revolt. We rebel against the world, and the struggle itself makes us happy. "The struggle itself...is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
So, let's take a look at Planescape: Torment. An AD&D RPG game, is a cult classic masterpiece which is a true example of why video games are no inferior to literature or cinema. Mainly story driven- battle is less important. The story is about a hero called The Nameless One. He is an immortal. He has died and reincarnated many times but has forgotten about his past lives, he can't even remember his own name. Now he has to travel through the tormented planes and reclaim his memories.
The Nameless One is trapped in an absurd situation. As we play on with the game we think deeply about what it means to have an identity, to belong, even on what constitutes the "self", and there's no ultimate answer to this question. The gods of Sigil are dead. There's no meaning, and everything is absurd. But we realize that the Nameless One is achieving personal redemption by his very struggle and fight to create meaning out of the absurd situation he's trapped in.
To be real though, I'm just nitpicking you. This game is an exception, and in this day and age no games are made like Planescape Torment. That game wasn't profitable, despite that it was intriguing in more than a glittery gameplay sense. Big title games out today? Yeah, I would agree with you that all of their stories are weak without any exceptions.
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if its d3 xpac i definitely won't be buying day 1. It really sucks that blizzard games aren't an insta-buy anymore but they raped my childhood enough that I can't take it anymore. I do hope d3 xpac is amazing though, I don't wish a plague on Blizzard or anything and I would love to play a proper Diablo III. I'm not getting my hopes up though.
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On August 15 2013 01:51 Porishan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:50 Lokerek wrote:
Knew it. Time to reverse pattern of copy D3 into HOTS.
New boss will be Kerrigan.
Or I should say Nagirrek. New Boss is Tyrael and we are all mindblown 
Boss is probably Adria, shes still alive and somewhere ... if not shell be in the next expansion after that :o
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Would like the new one to not suck, that would be nice :O
I think the new boss will be Rayn Jamesor.
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On August 15 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:28 TheFish7 wrote:
Sooo... when you play Starcraft, do you just do the same build order every game? I'm 33 year old, with a house, a girlfriend and brother in the army over seas. You over estimate the number of times I am going to replying Diablo 3 with the same character class.
I heard that more than 50% of gamers never finish the games they buy.
For the casual players like Plansix who will never in their life witness Inferno difficulty, only play each character class for less than 10 hours, Diablo 3 may as well be a good game.
What D3 has going for it is nice graphics and smooth combat. What it lacks is everything else. Since nobody was able to play the game before release and all the major reviewing sites rushed their review in a youtube-like "FIRST!" manner, none of them got far enough to notice the flaws of the game. Really, no major reviewer even got to Inferno. They only played Normal and published their reviews.
Let's rewind a bit. D3 was released in a broken state. It was literally unplayabale (error 37) for about a week! Let's not forget that. After that, I played with my friends for about 3-4 days until we beat Hell difficulty. We realized soon enough that the story was utter trash (Power Ranger's villain kills Cain, Tyrael becomes human, villain's tell you their secret plot every 10 seconds, "you have defeated X, but you will never defeat Y", the most cheesy ending ever), but at least the combat seemed fun.
But then came Inferno and we never played together again.
The whole Inferno diffficulty was based around the fact that there were a few exploiters who looted chests for days in order to sell the items to the common folk, who could then slowly advance through Inferno (D3 is full of bugs and exploits, we were all used as unpaid beta testers).
Players realized that:
every character is exactly the same
player skill is worthless, items from the (RM)AH reign king, so better farm some 20 million gold
items are boring as hell (forced to stack the same mods on every item)
no skill variaty, every character had to use the same cookie cutter build (exploit); most skills suck
every bit of fun is actually an exploit and is patched out of the game
enrage timers suck, elite mob modifiers are not fun and some are even bugged
you cannot even choose in which order you want to unlock skills, there's no incentive to ever create a second character of the same class
the "randomly generated maps" are not random at all
the whole game was built around the RMAH
party play is punished / you are forced to play alone
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On August 15 2013 06:06 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:55 Caihead wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if people go on community sites just to carry out their personal vendetta against video games producers. Get something better to do already, it's a piece of entertainment media that's very much a luxury for a great part of the world that is probably a minute part of your disposable income if you decide to waste time spewing hate for hours on internet forums. There's plenty of better things to hate, like oil companies, or arms manufacturers, or middle eastern theocratic dictatorships. This argument is so tired and old. Just because there are many things worth getting angry about in the world doesn't mean people can't be disappointed in the game that Diablo 3 turned out to be. In my case, and it seems like many others based on what people say, I played Diablo 2 for hundreds, if not thousands of hours, and it was a huge part of my childhood. It took me years to get sick of playing that game, and it was relatively shallow compared to what technology was capable of accomplishing in 2012. Diablo 3 was a chance for Blizzard to bring that experience into the 21st Century and deliver another game worthy of my sleepless nights, and they just flat out didn't deliver. I played it, probably for around 60 hours. I would call that getting my money's worth out of the game if it were any other IP from any other developer. But this is Diablo, and like D2, SC:BW, SC2, and WoW, I expected to be sucked in and wasn't. It's the only Blizzard game that I have only played for a few weeks and then given up on. If it was just another game released by Activision, it wouldn't have received nearly the same amount of hate, it's true. But don't fault people for seeing it as a missed opportunity to deliver something special. Because that's exactly what happened.
It's much more old to read the exact same hate leveled in almost every thread involving blizzard, leave it to blogs if you have to relate your personal experience. The majority of people aren't fanboys or haters as both fanboys and haters want to make it out to be, we just want less crap piling up on the forums. Had the BW forums been full of attacks on Blizzard to fix what ever issue to personal opinion I wouldn't have stayed on this website in the first place.
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On August 15 2013 07:09 S1eth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2013 06:28 TheFish7 wrote:
Sooo... when you play Starcraft, do you just do the same build order every game? I'm 33 year old, with a house, a girlfriend and brother in the army over seas. You over estimate the number of times I am going to replying Diablo 3 with the same character class. I heard that more than 50% of gamers never finish the games they buy. For the casual players like Plansix who will never in their life witness Inferno difficulty, only play each character class for less than 10 hours, Diablo 3 may as well be a good game. What D3 has going for it is nice graphics and smooth combat. What it lacks is everything else. Since nobody was able to play the game before release and all the major reviewing sites rushed their review in a youtube-like "FIRST!" manner, none of them got far enough to notice the flaws of the game. Really, no major reviewer even got to Inferno. They only played Normal and published their reviews. Let's rewind a bit. D3 was released in a broken state. It was literally unplayabale (error 37) for about a week! Let's not forget that. After that, I played with my friends for about 3-4 days until we beat Hell difficulty. We realized soon enough that the story was utter trash (Power Ranger's villain kills Cain, Tyrael becomes human, villain's tell you their secret plot every 10 seconds, "you have defeated X, but you will never defeat Y", the most cheesy ending ever), but at least the combat seemed fun. But then came Inferno and we never played together again. The whole Inferno diffficulty was based around the fact that there were a few exploiters who looted chests for days in order to sell the items to the common folk, who could then slowly advance through Inferno (D3 is full of bugs and exploits, we were all used as unpaid beta testers). Players realized that: every character is exactly the same player skill is worthless, items from the (RM)AH reign king, so better farm some 20 million gold items are boring as hell (forced to stack the same mods on every item) no skill variaty, every character had to use the same cookie cutter build (exploit); most skills suck every bit of fun is actually an exploit and is patched out of the game enrage timers suck, elite mob modifiers are not fun and some are even bugged you cannot even choose in which order you want to unlock skills, there's no incentive to ever create a second character of the same class the "randomly generated maps" are not random at all the whole game was built around the RMAH party play is punished / you are forced to play alone
This really does seem like you have taken the most popular arguments for d3's failure (not yours personally) and tried to use them as yours. The fact of the matter is this
- Beta was limited, no youtubers COULD get to inferno even if they wanted
- Error 37 only lasted for a day or two at most
- Maps are both generated and randomly, which is why botting took so long to deal with areas such as arreat crater, and all inner zone levels (I'd know because I was one of those much hatter botters with a pretty sizable set up)
- You were never forced to stack mods, its always the community implying this min/maxing to be efficient. This is such a moot argument for the entire case Im not even sure why its included as its mostly opinion based
- Once again the RMAH was still a personal choice of using it or not. There is no competitive nature in this game YET (the pvp currently can't be compared since we know what they had planned ie areans etc). Sure it did mean the majority ended up under the impression you had to use it but by no means did you have to.
- Im not quite sure how party play is punished but would be great if you went more in depth.
Though I have to say it did have its downfalls, I just hate it when people come in spewing crap
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On August 15 2013 06:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:21 Karok wrote:Wasn't inferring that skill trees were the way to go, just that the current skills (mostly) blow, and they should change them to be more interesting The skills in diablo 3 were intresting enough and I liked how the main attack did something, rather than just being a basic attack I never used. They could spice them up and maybe let people invent "points" in them to make them more poweful. But the switch at any point was one of the highlights of the game. I dislike being punished for trying things out.
Can't think of many dungeon crawlers that actually force you to use a basic attack past the "intro" levels. Actually, I can't think of any. Most just give you mana steal or high mana regen and let you spam your big abilities non-stop.
I mean, most of Diablo 3's main attacks were even based on Diablo 2 skills that were put on left-click. Bash, Frenzy, Guided Arrow, Fireball, Charge Bolt, etc.
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On August 15 2013 07:27 Cite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 07:09 S1eth wrote:On August 15 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2013 06:28 TheFish7 wrote:
Sooo... when you play Starcraft, do you just do the same build order every game? I'm 33 year old, with a house, a girlfriend and brother in the army over seas. You over estimate the number of times I am going to replying Diablo 3 with the same character class. I heard that more than 50% of gamers never finish the games they buy. For the casual players like Plansix who will never in their life witness Inferno difficulty, only play each character class for less than 10 hours, Diablo 3 may as well be a good game. What D3 has going for it is nice graphics and smooth combat. What it lacks is everything else. Since nobody was able to play the game before release and all the major reviewing sites rushed their review in a youtube-like "FIRST!" manner, none of them got far enough to notice the flaws of the game. Really, no major reviewer even got to Inferno. They only played Normal and published their reviews. Let's rewind a bit. D3 was released in a broken state. It was literally unplayabale (error 37) for about a week! Let's not forget that. After that, I played with my friends for about 3-4 days until we beat Hell difficulty. We realized soon enough that the story was utter trash (Power Ranger's villain kills Cain, Tyrael becomes human, villain's tell you their secret plot every 10 seconds, "you have defeated X, but you will never defeat Y", the most cheesy ending ever), but at least the combat seemed fun. But then came Inferno and we never played together again. The whole Inferno diffficulty was based around the fact that there were a few exploiters who looted chests for days in order to sell the items to the common folk, who could then slowly advance through Inferno (D3 is full of bugs and exploits, we were all used as unpaid beta testers). Players realized that: every character is exactly the same player skill is worthless, items from the (RM)AH reign king, so better farm some 20 million gold items are boring as hell (forced to stack the same mods on every item) no skill variaty, every character had to use the same cookie cutter build (exploit); most skills suck every bit of fun is actually an exploit and is patched out of the game enrage timers suck, elite mob modifiers are not fun and some are even bugged you cannot even choose in which order you want to unlock skills, there's no incentive to ever create a second character of the same class the "randomly generated maps" are not random at all the whole game was built around the RMAH party play is punished / you are forced to play alone This really does seem like you have taken the most popular arguments for d3's failure (not yours personally) and tried to use them as yours. The fact of the matter is this - Beta was limited, no youtubers COULD get to inferno even if they wanted - Error 37 only lasted for a day or two at most - Maps are both generated and randomly, which is why botting took so long to deal with areas such as arreat crater, and all inner zone levels (I'd know because I was one of those much hatter botters with a pretty sizable set up) - You were never forced to stack mods, its always the community implying this min/maxing to be efficient. This is such a moot argument for the entire case Im not even sure why its included as its mostly opinion based - Once again the RMAH was still a personal choice of using it or not. There is no competitive nature in this game YET (the pvp currently can't be compared since we know what they had planned ie areans etc). Sure it did mean the majority ended up under the impression you had to use it but by no means did you have to. - Im not quite sure how party play is punished but would be great if you went more in depth. Though I have to say it did have its downfalls, I just hate it when people come in spewing crap
except shitting on Plansix because he said he didnt hate the game, his points are valid.
I had trouble to log on this game for several days, maps are not generated randomly ( as they were in the first installment of the series DUHHH ), RMAH fucked the game over, and yes party play was punished because at launch monsters would have more hp and deal more dmg depending on the number of people in the game.
I dont care if they patched it 6 months later, I will never play the game again.
That being said, I surely spent 60 hours on that game which, in comparison to most other games is fine.
Still, I felt totally uber boned to wait for 10 years to be told its gonna be awesome,you can build your character however you want, youll have pvp on launch, etc. ---- those were LIES.
I mean I dont care if the game has been fixed by now. The Diablo series is dead to me.
I have been playing them Blizzard games since I was in 5th grade like almost 20 years ago. Hell I still remember the day I brought back my WC2 battle chest home from the store. I have spent countless hours using their products, and will probably keep doing so cause I love SC2. But D3 felt like utter shit to me compared to the other blizzard products I have enjoyed over the years. What made it worse is that Jay ''fuck that loser'' Wilson made me believe for some time this game would be epic when its totally not.
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Sadly I lost interest in Diablo 3 a long time ago. Maybe some new additions will give me the willingness to play it again.
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On August 15 2013 07:09 S1eth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2013 06:28 TheFish7 wrote:
Sooo... when you play Starcraft, do you just do the same build order every game? I'm 33 year old, with a house, a girlfriend and brother in the army over seas. You over estimate the number of times I am going to replying Diablo 3 with the same character class. I heard that more than 50% of gamers never finish the games they buy. For the casual players like Plansix who will never in their life witness Inferno difficulty, only play each character class for less than 10 hours, Diablo 3 may as well be a good game. What D3 has going for it is nice graphics and smooth combat. What it lacks is everything else. Since nobody was able to play the game before release and all the major reviewing sites rushed their review in a youtube-like "FIRST!" manner, none of them got far enough to notice the flaws of the game. Really, no major reviewer even got to Inferno. They only played Normal and published their reviews. Let's rewind a bit. D3 was released in a broken state. It was literally unplayabale (error 37) for about a week! Let's not forget that. After that, I played with my friends for about 3-4 days until we beat Hell difficulty. We realized soon enough that the story was utter trash (Power Ranger's villain kills Cain, Tyrael becomes human, villain's tell you their secret plot every 10 seconds, "you have defeated X, but you will never defeat Y", the most cheesy ending ever), but at least the combat seemed fun. But then came Inferno and we never played together again. The whole Inferno diffficulty was based around the fact that there were a few exploiters who looted chests for days in order to sell the items to the common folk, who could then slowly advance through Inferno (D3 is full of bugs and exploits, we were all used as unpaid beta testers). Players realized that: every character is exactly the same player skill is worthless, items from the (RM)AH reign king, so better farm some 20 million gold items are boring as hell (forced to stack the same mods on every item) no skill variaty, every character had to use the same cookie cutter build (exploit); most skills suck every bit of fun is actually an exploit and is patched out of the game enrage timers suck, elite mob modifiers are not fun and some are even bugged you cannot even choose in which order you want to unlock skills, there's no incentive to ever create a second character of the same class the "randomly generated maps" are not random at all the whole game was built around the RMAH party play is punished / you are forced to play alone
I played a ton in the first week, I rarely got error 37. Though when it came, it came with force and stuck around for a while. It was frustrating, but also expected when you have 10 million people rushing to log in. They fixed it pretty quick, much faster than say.... Sim City.
Inferno was made difficult because it was what the gamers told them to do. It was designed to be progressed through slowly, not rushed. You farm act 1 until you have the gear to go to act 2, then the same there to move on to act 3. This was far too tedious and slow for people though so they complained. Then when they adjusted it to be easier, people complained it was too easy (looking at you kripp).
Also, which bugs/exploits is the game filled with? The only major one that I know of is the gold overflow issue that happened like a year later due to a patch (which was gigantic).
Each character is very different. DH is way different from sorc is way different from barb. I havent played monk/WD, but the others feel very different.
Player skill is involved, there is a lot of stuff you can avoid. It is limited though since you cant dodge melee attacks manually.
Items are a bit boring at the moment, but that is being changed soon.
There is a lot of skill variety, there are a lot of builds for each character. Barbs have like 5 really good build variations and dozens of viable builds (if not way more than that even). As you get better gear you can try other things too.
Enrage timers DID suck (they took them out) and I dont know which elites are bugged.
Party play is beneficial now actually
Basically, any issue that did exist no longer exists. Yet people still hate on it for some reason. Oh right, because it is a blizzard game and its fun to hate blizzard now.
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i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game.
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It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc.
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On August 15 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:28 TheFish7 wrote:
Sooo... when you play Starcraft, do you just do the same build order every game? I'm 33 year old, with a house, a girlfriend and brother in the army over seas. You over estimate the number of times I am going to replying Diablo 3 with the same character class.
For a 33 year old you sure are a prolific poster on these forums :3
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On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game.
In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use.
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On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc.
how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints.
On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use.
which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more.
if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt.
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EPT
