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On August 15 2013 08:38 unkkz wrote:
There was a bugg that went unnoticed since release, Wizards could become immortal with permanent archon or something. You had to like die, but then it bugged and you didnt die and then you had 0 hp but still ran around killing stuff. So these wizards farmed act 3 when everyone else was in act 1.
And partyplay was so poorly planned out holy balls. That's what made many of my friends quit. We played hardcore only and in HC there was no reason whatsoever to play in a party - things hit so damn hard and took too long to kill it wasn't worth the risk. Think we lost a few people dying due to this and then there was just never any partying, just solo play.
Another big deal breaker for me is the fact that if u DC, you stay ingame for almost a minute at times and that just makes HC unplayable tbh.
But D3 is just D2 without the fun. Very similar abilities - no fun. No build variety at all, no runewords, low level items mean nothing, every way to powerlevel nerfed to the ground, quests only give gold and xp - nothing fun like imbuing. Later both gold and XP nerfed into the ground making quests completely pointless. Bosses dropped _nothing_ usefull at relase and for a long time. And it just goes on and on. The weird part is that Jay Wilson was a MASSIVE Diablo 2 fan geek, involved in community websites and everything before he started at Blizzard - and then he managed to make this. Diablo 2 with just about all the fun and diversity taken out of it.
But i mean there is hope, LoD added huge depth to the game imo and i cannot think of Diablo 2 without LoD and Blizzard should be aware of why D3 sucks since there is no shortage of rant posts everywhere.
You only had to use "Archon" and "Teleport" at the same time. You would then teleport during the Archon animation, and your hitbox would stay behind at the origin of the teleport while you could move anywhere you wanted. So you were invincible until you changed to the next act or used teleport again.
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On August 15 2013 08:57 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 08:52 DannyJ wrote:On August 15 2013 08:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:37 DannyJ wrote:On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Because the game designers had to adjust to the problems of the AH through the game design itself which made the experience for people who refused to use the AH an awkward and unsatisfying experience. At least compared to a game like D2. i don't see where they adjusted the game design to counteract the AH. the opposite makes more sense; they did everything possible to make the AH obsolete. care to cite some examples? and i still fail to see how people who didn't use the AH can complain about an awkward and unsatisfying experience because of AH. they made the game easier, not harder, and thus, the effect of cheaper high end gear on AH/RMAH is irrelevant. if they had made the game harder because of the availability of high end gear, i can see your point, but they didn't. they did the opposite. I'm not really sure how the game being "easier" or "harder" has anything to do with it. Diablo is a franchise that revolves around gear drops and that desire to hit that next pinata because of what might be inside. The AH really fucked up the rarity and value of drops. I mean if Blizzard themselves stated they wish they could take back the decision to implement Gold/Real money AH it's clear it messed stuff up. you have yet to shown me how the gameplay is affected for a person who does not want to and does not use the AH. in my opinion, people who dont like AH/RMAH are the ones who want to spend hours and hours grinding and are pissed that people can just buy the gear. it makes their meaningless lives feel like exactly what they are, meaningless.
Using the AH makes finding items extremely boring because 99.999% of the time the items that I find will suck compared to what I can get on the AH. Finding items in D3 in my mind should be like going fishing, I know i'm not going to catch a big fish most of the time but it's a possibility. And big fish != BiS gear, it means decent gear which is important because if I find a legendary in D3 while leveling up odds are it'll be a legendary witch doctor mask that rolled strength which is pointless unless watering down items is a goal.
I played D3 to have fun finding items, the problem is (after playing Hardcore Self Found) that you hit this wall where finding an upgrade is near impossible but if I drop $10 or take a look at the AH (since there is no RMAH in HC) I can make my character 10x better in seconds.
In D2 i could find uniques that were decent or set items that were decent just by playing through the story line. In D3 the experience feels extremely watered down as far as drop rates go. I guess wanting to find decent gear on my own without playing 10 hours a day or without buying gear isn't the way D3 is meant to be played. Sucks for me.
And btw, people bought gear in D2, the main difference for me was that it wasn't impossible to find useful/interesting items because bosses had loot tables and items were actually interesting.
Edit: I think all my criticisms of D3 can be summed up to loot is boring as hell and finding useful (ie. not a DH only item that rolled strength) sets/legendaries/uniques/etc is near impossible.
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On August 15 2013 07:27 Cite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 07:09 S1eth wrote:
the "randomly generated maps" are not random at all
- Maps are both generated and randomly, which is why botting took so long to deal with areas such as arreat crater, and all inner zone levels (I'd know because I was one of those much hatter botters with a pretty sizable set up)
It's only randomizing some bridges in that level, I think. There is no algorithm that forms the whole dungeon. So, actually it shouldn't be hard to understand these dungeons if you clear multiple versions of them and screenshot their maps.
I've made random dungeons in SC2 maps (Dia blo - Mortal Shroud) and compared to that, D3's randomized world is a joke. D2 was way more random than D3 and D1 was even more random than D2.
I'm limited in the amount of looks I can give my dungeons as I'm no modeler nor graphic designer, so the placed doodads are repeating itself very often and the amount of textures is tiny. But the wall structure is random and rooms receive themes. So, you are in a new environment every game and need to search the entrance of the next area.
The problem D3 has is that it's always going into 1 direction and that it's using huge tiles rather than combining a lot of smaller tiles when it's even using tiles for the areas. The amount of possible looks for a dungeon is tiny rather than being near 4 billion.
D3's outside areas are like a sc2 map where you paint all cliffs first. They are static and never change. Then you place 2-5 regions into each area where special big doodads can spawn. Then you place a few item containers randomly in that area and you are done. The work that you need to do at the map start is tiny, but the outcome is very little random, but its generation is nearly instant.
D3's dungeons contain out of many bigger tiles connected to each other. In general I think there are only a few sets of dungeons possible in that as they don't allow many tiles to be reused within a single level and I believe the cathedral levels require the player to always walk past the crater tiles. So, I think there are just a handful of possibilities per level.
Well, that's why D3 loads instantly (except for the many lags loading assets from had disc creates). There is like no CPU power required to generate the dungeons.
The end result of that is that the areas look beautiful and are instantly created, but they always look nearly identical.
I really would love to see smaller tiles within dungeons, different sets of lights and textures to give dungeons more variations. Maybe people like me are the minority, but I hate that I memorize the areas, the paths, where to search for what, directly finding dungeon exits in most levels...
It's really something I was hoping D3 to use, but it's absolutely not random at all (and they even advertised a random world for console -.-). It's a mostly a static world and that's what Diablo hasn't been before. Diablo evolved from dungeon exploration games and those had random dungeon generators afaIk.
At least D3 still seems to have mostly random positions for monsters excluding all the scripted monsters.
I wrote a bit about my random dungeons within SC2, in case anyone is interested. It contains pictures of different dungeon types, too.
I don't expect the expansions to change that as it's way too late to change. Maybe they will add new dungeons that are more random into their second expansion as that is something they really can do, but I doubt they will.
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Make D3's expansion free to play. That'll be the real announcement.
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On August 15 2013 09:34 Avs wrote:
Make D3's expansion free to play. That'll be the real announcement.
What? I thought we hated buying loot and stuff to make the game pretty. That would just add more of it.
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On August 15 2013 09:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 09:34 Avs wrote:
Make D3's expansion free to play. That'll be the real announcement. What? I thought we hated buying loot and stuff to make the game pretty. That would just add more of it.
Well his name tag said Korea, wasnt diablo subscription base in korea? Cant remember or I might just be crazy
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On August 15 2013 09:34 Avs wrote:
Make D3's expansion free to play. That'll be the real announcement.
Less money in the short term. But.. I wonder.. could doing something as radical as making the D3 expo free actually bring more money in the long run? May rekindle some good will in a significant number of people, may generate a ton of positive image, etc., which could translate to more rapport and more success in all enterprises down the road. Idk
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On August 15 2013 09:04 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Well the problem is that if there is a real money auction hall, then people who get the best drop are going to sell them on the real money auction hall rather than the regular auction hall. It is quiet obvious that the real money auction hall have superior item than the regular auction. Having a game revolve around the auction halls, the ability to purchase item from anyone around the world, mean that ALL the drop in diablo 3 inferno are going to be SHIT (mostly). This is so that the game is flooded with people with OP item and to make the real money auction hall relevant. This is also why people have more success farming for gold to buy the gear rather than farming an item. So people who refuses to use the real money auction hall are shafted because the drop rate on good item are SHIT just so Blizzard can keep the real money auction hall. They still have access to the regular Auction house but it only lead them to decent item and nothing as amazing as the real money auction house. If they remove the real money auction house, then everyone will have to rely on the regular auction hall, I think this would be better. TLDR: Because the real money auction hall and regular auction hall exist, the drop rate on all item have to be shit to maintain a stable economy. Therefore people will have to farm gold to buy the item rather than actually farming gear. Just having these in the game has a huge impact on everyone and to say that "If you dont like it, dont use it." is rather silly.
if blizzard intentionally affected the drop rates to force people to use AH then i would concede the point. but did they do that?
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On August 15 2013 09:27 Parametric wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 08:57 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:52 DannyJ wrote:On August 15 2013 08:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:37 DannyJ wrote:On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Because the game designers had to adjust to the problems of the AH through the game design itself which made the experience for people who refused to use the AH an awkward and unsatisfying experience. At least compared to a game like D2. i don't see where they adjusted the game design to counteract the AH. the opposite makes more sense; they did everything possible to make the AH obsolete. care to cite some examples? and i still fail to see how people who didn't use the AH can complain about an awkward and unsatisfying experience because of AH. they made the game easier, not harder, and thus, the effect of cheaper high end gear on AH/RMAH is irrelevant. if they had made the game harder because of the availability of high end gear, i can see your point, but they didn't. they did the opposite. I'm not really sure how the game being "easier" or "harder" has anything to do with it. Diablo is a franchise that revolves around gear drops and that desire to hit that next pinata because of what might be inside. The AH really fucked up the rarity and value of drops. I mean if Blizzard themselves stated they wish they could take back the decision to implement Gold/Real money AH it's clear it messed stuff up. you have yet to shown me how the gameplay is affected for a person who does not want to and does not use the AH. in my opinion, people who dont like AH/RMAH are the ones who want to spend hours and hours grinding and are pissed that people can just buy the gear. it makes their meaningless lives feel like exactly what they are, meaningless. Using the AH makes finding items extremely boring because 99.999% of the time the items that I find will suck compared to what I can get on the AH. Finding items in D3 in my mind should be like going fishing, I know i'm not going to catch a big fish most of the time but it's a possibility. And big fish != BiS gear, it means decent gear which is important because if I find a legendary in D3 while leveling up odds are it'll be a legendary witch doctor mask that rolled strength which is pointless unless watering down items is a goal. I played D3 to have fun finding items, the problem is (after playing Hardcore Self Found) that you hit this wall where finding an upgrade is near impossible but if I drop $10 or take a look at the AH (since there is no RMAH in HC) I can make my character 10x better in seconds. In D2 i could find uniques that were decent or set items that were decent just by playing through the story line. In D3 the experience feels extremely watered down as far as drop rates go. I guess wanting to find decent gear on my own without playing 10 hours a day or without buying gear isn't the way D3 is meant to be played. Sucks for me. And btw, people bought gear in D2, the main difference for me was that it wasn't impossible to find useful/interesting items because bosses had loot tables and items were actually interesting. Edit: I think all my criticisms of D3 can be summed up to loot is boring as hell and finding useful (ie. not a DH only item that rolled strength) sets/legendaries/uniques/etc is near impossible.
thats not a problem with the AH/RMAH, its a problem with the itemization and drop rates. unless blizzard intentionally linked the two.
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On August 15 2013 09:52 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 09:27 Parametric wrote:On August 15 2013 08:57 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:52 DannyJ wrote:On August 15 2013 08:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:37 DannyJ wrote:On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Because the game designers had to adjust to the problems of the AH through the game design itself which made the experience for people who refused to use the AH an awkward and unsatisfying experience. At least compared to a game like D2. i don't see where they adjusted the game design to counteract the AH. the opposite makes more sense; they did everything possible to make the AH obsolete. care to cite some examples? and i still fail to see how people who didn't use the AH can complain about an awkward and unsatisfying experience because of AH. they made the game easier, not harder, and thus, the effect of cheaper high end gear on AH/RMAH is irrelevant. if they had made the game harder because of the availability of high end gear, i can see your point, but they didn't. they did the opposite. I'm not really sure how the game being "easier" or "harder" has anything to do with it. Diablo is a franchise that revolves around gear drops and that desire to hit that next pinata because of what might be inside. The AH really fucked up the rarity and value of drops. I mean if Blizzard themselves stated they wish they could take back the decision to implement Gold/Real money AH it's clear it messed stuff up. you have yet to shown me how the gameplay is affected for a person who does not want to and does not use the AH. in my opinion, people who dont like AH/RMAH are the ones who want to spend hours and hours grinding and are pissed that people can just buy the gear. it makes their meaningless lives feel like exactly what they are, meaningless. Using the AH makes finding items extremely boring because 99.999% of the time the items that I find will suck compared to what I can get on the AH. Finding items in D3 in my mind should be like going fishing, I know i'm not going to catch a big fish most of the time but it's a possibility. And big fish != BiS gear, it means decent gear which is important because if I find a legendary in D3 while leveling up odds are it'll be a legendary witch doctor mask that rolled strength which is pointless unless watering down items is a goal. I played D3 to have fun finding items, the problem is (after playing Hardcore Self Found) that you hit this wall where finding an upgrade is near impossible but if I drop $10 or take a look at the AH (since there is no RMAH in HC) I can make my character 10x better in seconds. In D2 i could find uniques that were decent or set items that were decent just by playing through the story line. In D3 the experience feels extremely watered down as far as drop rates go. I guess wanting to find decent gear on my own without playing 10 hours a day or without buying gear isn't the way D3 is meant to be played. Sucks for me. And btw, people bought gear in D2, the main difference for me was that it wasn't impossible to find useful/interesting items because bosses had loot tables and items were actually interesting. Edit: I think all my criticisms of D3 can be summed up to loot is boring as hell and finding useful (ie. not a DH only item that rolled strength) sets/legendaries/uniques/etc is near impossible. thats not a problem with the AH/RMAH, its a problem with the itemization and drop rates. unless blizzard intentionally linked the two.
I'm trying to find a post comparing D3 to D2 drop rates, if someone could help me out it'd be appreciated. I remember seeing it, i think it was on Diablo Inc.
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They did, legendary drop rate was exceedingly low during the first few months of D3 to account for the presence of the RMAH.
I may have been an outlier but I played roughly 150 hours before the first big patch (1.04?) and found 2 legendaries and no set items in that time.
Nonetheless, people are hugely exaggerating how difficult or item dependent inferno was at release. I defeated inferno diablo about 8 days after the game came out with a 500 dps crossbow and 25k hp (hey, it was good gear at that time - so good that there literally wasn't better stuff on the AH, of which I didn't really use until much later because my self-found gear was better than anything available on the AH.)
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On August 15 2013 09:59 Phael wrote:
They did, legendary drop rate was exceedingly low during the first few months of D3 to account for the presence of the RMAH.
I may have been an outlier but I played roughly 150 hours before the first big patch (1.04?) and found 2 legendaries and no set items in that time.
Nonetheless, people are hugely exaggerating how difficult or item dependent inferno was at release. I defeated inferno diablo about 8 days after the game came out with a 500 dps crossbow and 25k hp (hey, it was good gear at that time - so good that there literally wasn't better stuff on the AH, of which I didn't really use until much later because my self-found gear was better than anything available on the AH.)
Every monster in act 2 and above one or twoshotted every character.
If you beat inferno diablo with a crossbow, I assume you used demonhunter with infinite smokescreen, which was patched out of the game pretty soon (as Blizzard considered it just another exploit)
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I used a wizard with the (somewhat OP) energy shield that allowed each hit to only take 1/3 of your life at max, and ran through most of acts 2-4 with 8-10k hp (I died about 20 times in the maggot lair alone, those stupid wall traps were instant death). However, Diablo himself had so many dot-based attacks that I didn't feel like playing perfectly for ~15 minutes so I bumped my hp up enough to survive ~2 seconds to teleport over and click a well.
I wasn't anywhere near the first player to do so, nor the first class. There were at least three barbarians, then-thought-of as the most item dependent character, to kill big D before me, with the fights lasting 30-45 minutes (literally sub 1k dps using a shield with 800+ loh). I managed to duplicate this feat the next week.
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On August 15 2013 09:48 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 09:04 SheaR619 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Well the problem is that if there is a real money auction hall, then people who get the best drop are going to sell them on the real money auction hall rather than the regular auction hall. It is quiet obvious that the real money auction hall have superior item than the regular auction. Having a game revolve around the auction halls, the ability to purchase item from anyone around the world, mean that ALL the drop in diablo 3 inferno are going to be SHIT (mostly). This is so that the game is flooded with people with OP item and to make the real money auction hall relevant. This is also why people have more success farming for gold to buy the gear rather than farming an item. So people who refuses to use the real money auction hall are shafted because the drop rate on good item are SHIT just so Blizzard can keep the real money auction hall. They still have access to the regular Auction house but it only lead them to decent item and nothing as amazing as the real money auction house. If they remove the real money auction house, then everyone will have to rely on the regular auction hall, I think this would be better. TLDR: Because the real money auction hall and regular auction hall exist, the drop rate on all item have to be shit to maintain a stable economy. Therefore people will have to farm gold to buy the item rather than actually farming gear. Just having these in the game has a huge impact on everyone and to say that "If you dont like it, dont use it." is rather silly. if blizzard intentionally affected the drop rates to force people to use AH then i would concede the point. but did they do that?
Yes they did. I believe they even described it in one of their dev blog posts.
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On August 15 2013 09:56 Parametric wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 09:52 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 09:27 Parametric wrote:On August 15 2013 08:57 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:52 DannyJ wrote:On August 15 2013 08:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:37 DannyJ wrote:On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Because the game designers had to adjust to the problems of the AH through the game design itself which made the experience for people who refused to use the AH an awkward and unsatisfying experience. At least compared to a game like D2. i don't see where they adjusted the game design to counteract the AH. the opposite makes more sense; they did everything possible to make the AH obsolete. care to cite some examples? and i still fail to see how people who didn't use the AH can complain about an awkward and unsatisfying experience because of AH. they made the game easier, not harder, and thus, the effect of cheaper high end gear on AH/RMAH is irrelevant. if they had made the game harder because of the availability of high end gear, i can see your point, but they didn't. they did the opposite. I'm not really sure how the game being "easier" or "harder" has anything to do with it. Diablo is a franchise that revolves around gear drops and that desire to hit that next pinata because of what might be inside. The AH really fucked up the rarity and value of drops. I mean if Blizzard themselves stated they wish they could take back the decision to implement Gold/Real money AH it's clear it messed stuff up. you have yet to shown me how the gameplay is affected for a person who does not want to and does not use the AH. in my opinion, people who dont like AH/RMAH are the ones who want to spend hours and hours grinding and are pissed that people can just buy the gear. it makes their meaningless lives feel like exactly what they are, meaningless. Using the AH makes finding items extremely boring because 99.999% of the time the items that I find will suck compared to what I can get on the AH. Finding items in D3 in my mind should be like going fishing, I know i'm not going to catch a big fish most of the time but it's a possibility. And big fish != BiS gear, it means decent gear which is important because if I find a legendary in D3 while leveling up odds are it'll be a legendary witch doctor mask that rolled strength which is pointless unless watering down items is a goal. I played D3 to have fun finding items, the problem is (after playing Hardcore Self Found) that you hit this wall where finding an upgrade is near impossible but if I drop $10 or take a look at the AH (since there is no RMAH in HC) I can make my character 10x better in seconds. In D2 i could find uniques that were decent or set items that were decent just by playing through the story line. In D3 the experience feels extremely watered down as far as drop rates go. I guess wanting to find decent gear on my own without playing 10 hours a day or without buying gear isn't the way D3 is meant to be played. Sucks for me. And btw, people bought gear in D2, the main difference for me was that it wasn't impossible to find useful/interesting items because bosses had loot tables and items were actually interesting. Edit: I think all my criticisms of D3 can be summed up to loot is boring as hell and finding useful (ie. not a DH only item that rolled strength) sets/legendaries/uniques/etc is near impossible. thats not a problem with the AH/RMAH, its a problem with the itemization and drop rates. unless blizzard intentionally linked the two. I'm trying to find a post comparing D3 to D2 drop rates, if someone could help me out it'd be appreciated. I remember seeing it, i think it was on Diablo Inc.
well, they have increased drop rates multiple times since the game came out because it was too low at first. that doesnt mean they intended it to force people to use the AH. also, they have often said they made the game fucking impossible so that you have to grind to get gear, but, again, i have never heard them say that they wanted to force people to use AH/RMAH although that may be the practical effect. my recollection is that blizzard said they fucked up on making inferno so hard and thats why they nerfed it to shit.
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On August 15 2013 10:11 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 09:48 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 09:04 SheaR619 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Well the problem is that if there is a real money auction hall, then people who get the best drop are going to sell them on the real money auction hall rather than the regular auction hall. It is quiet obvious that the real money auction hall have superior item than the regular auction. Having a game revolve around the auction halls, the ability to purchase item from anyone around the world, mean that ALL the drop in diablo 3 inferno are going to be SHIT (mostly). This is so that the game is flooded with people with OP item and to make the real money auction hall relevant. This is also why people have more success farming for gold to buy the gear rather than farming an item. So people who refuses to use the real money auction hall are shafted because the drop rate on good item are SHIT just so Blizzard can keep the real money auction hall. They still have access to the regular Auction house but it only lead them to decent item and nothing as amazing as the real money auction house. If they remove the real money auction house, then everyone will have to rely on the regular auction hall, I think this would be better. TLDR: Because the real money auction hall and regular auction hall exist, the drop rate on all item have to be shit to maintain a stable economy. Therefore people will have to farm gold to buy the item rather than actually farming gear. Just having these in the game has a huge impact on everyone and to say that "If you dont like it, dont use it." is rather silly. if blizzard intentionally affected the drop rates to force people to use AH then i would concede the point. but did they do that? Yes they did. I believe they even described it in one of their dev blog posts.
can you point me in the right direction? i am curious about this because that would be a huge fail on blizzard's part and piss me off too.
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On August 15 2013 09:48 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 09:04 SheaR619 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Well the problem is that if there is a real money auction hall, then people who get the best drop are going to sell them on the real money auction hall rather than the regular auction hall. It is quiet obvious that the real money auction hall have superior item than the regular auction. Having a game revolve around the auction halls, the ability to purchase item from anyone around the world, mean that ALL the drop in diablo 3 inferno are going to be SHIT (mostly). This is so that the game is flooded with people with OP item and to make the real money auction hall relevant. This is also why people have more success farming for gold to buy the gear rather than farming an item. So people who refuses to use the real money auction hall are shafted because the drop rate on good item are SHIT just so Blizzard can keep the real money auction hall. They still have access to the regular Auction house but it only lead them to decent item and nothing as amazing as the real money auction house. If they remove the real money auction house, then everyone will have to rely on the regular auction hall, I think this would be better. TLDR: Because the real money auction hall and regular auction hall exist, the drop rate on all item have to be shit to maintain a stable economy. Therefore people will have to farm gold to buy the item rather than actually farming gear. Just having these in the game has a huge impact on everyone and to say that "If you dont like it, dont use it." is rather silly. if blizzard intentionally affected the drop rates to force people to use AH then i would concede the point. but did they do that?
I dont think it take rocket science to know that that they must lower the drop rate because of the auction hall. They didnt lower the drop rate so that people will be forced to used the AH but they lowered it because it MUST be done to make the AH not inflate everything. If you still dont believe, when you play diablo 3, do you farm item? Or do you farm the gold to buy the item on the AH? I am sure most people will say they farm gold to buy it from the AH because the drop rate are shit.
I think it was probably mentioned before but I think someone did do some test comparing diablo 2 and diablo 3 drop rate some where. I havent revisited the page in a while so I dont remember where it is.
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On August 15 2013 10:12 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 10:11 a176 wrote:On August 15 2013 09:48 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 09:04 SheaR619 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 15 2013 08:31 DannyJ wrote:
It effected everyone. Jay Wilson even admitted the auction houses "really hurt the game". It just really fucked up the the value and rarity of items, forced odd drop rates, made leveling through the AH basically the only/best way, etc. how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. On August 15 2013 08:33 Gorilla23 wrote:On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote:
i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. In a way, I don't like it. I'd rather people grind for the rare gear or trade for it. But even if the AH didn't exist, people would use illegitimate websites to purchase or sell gear. That's why I only dislike the AH in a way. It's nice that it's at least safer for people to use. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Well the problem is that if there is a real money auction hall, then people who get the best drop are going to sell them on the real money auction hall rather than the regular auction hall. It is quiet obvious that the real money auction hall have superior item than the regular auction. Having a game revolve around the auction halls, the ability to purchase item from anyone around the world, mean that ALL the drop in diablo 3 inferno are going to be SHIT (mostly). This is so that the game is flooded with people with OP item and to make the real money auction hall relevant. This is also why people have more success farming for gold to buy the gear rather than farming an item. So people who refuses to use the real money auction hall are shafted because the drop rate on good item are SHIT just so Blizzard can keep the real money auction hall. They still have access to the regular Auction house but it only lead them to decent item and nothing as amazing as the real money auction house. If they remove the real money auction house, then everyone will have to rely on the regular auction hall, I think this would be better. TLDR: Because the real money auction hall and regular auction hall exist, the drop rate on all item have to be shit to maintain a stable economy. Therefore people will have to farm gold to buy the item rather than actually farming gear. Just having these in the game has a huge impact on everyone and to say that "If you dont like it, dont use it." is rather silly. if blizzard intentionally affected the drop rates to force people to use AH then i would concede the point. but did they do that? Yes they did. I believe they even described it in one of their dev blog posts. can you point me in the right direction? i am curious about this because that would be a huge fail on blizzard's part and piss me off too.
I found this quote:
"The auction house obviously provides an incredible service to allow for very easy trades between characters, and essentially blows out the wide range of items you could have available to you at any one time. So, in fact, the AH has to be a factor in how we drop items. On one hand you have a huge benefit because you can buy and sell items very easily, as opposed to having to post up WTS threads in the old USEast trading forums, but on the other end it does impact the item pool economy with the inherent ease at which you can trade items. If the AH existed but wasn't a factor at all into how items dropped/rolled, the economy would be completely tanked within a matter of weeks."
The thread it came from has apparently been deleted, but multiple websites all link to the exact same thread
EDIT: Okay, found a quote of the original post: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5151724113
Feel free to ignore the rest of that topic.
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On August 15 2013 10:02 S1eth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 09:59 Phael wrote:
They did, legendary drop rate was exceedingly low during the first few months of D3 to account for the presence of the RMAH.
I may have been an outlier but I played roughly 150 hours before the first big patch (1.04?) and found 2 legendaries and no set items in that time.
Nonetheless, people are hugely exaggerating how difficult or item dependent inferno was at release. I defeated inferno diablo about 8 days after the game came out with a 500 dps crossbow and 25k hp (hey, it was good gear at that time - so good that there literally wasn't better stuff on the AH, of which I didn't really use until much later because my self-found gear was better than anything available on the AH.) Every monster in act 2 and above one or twoshotted every character. If you beat inferno diablo with a crossbow, I assume you used demonhunter with infinite smokescreen, which was patched out of the game pretty soon (as Blizzard considered it just another exploit)
Not entirely true. I played a barb and was immensely frustrated with the difficulty in being a barbarian (7600 armor, 600 all resist and 43k hp and mobs can 1 shot you in act 3). But I also didnt have good gear and the game mechanics were still largely a mystery.
I switched to a DH and managed to do well though. DH is also one of the highest twitch/skill based class in the game imo since you can SS dodge everything (see: inferno diablo beaten naked)
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hmmm...
The auction house has absolutely no effect on drop rates. There are conspiracy theories and misunderstandings, but I do want to re-iterate: there is NO interaction whatsoever. Bashiok mentioned earlier that we took the AH into account, so let me expand a little bit on that.
The drop rates were tuned for a player who would never use the Auction House. For the majority of internal development, we didn't have an Auction House, and we all played using our own drops only. I've personally leveled multiple characters from 1 to 60 internally before the game came out using only drops that I found -- we all did.
I consider playing without the Auction House to be a very fun way to play the game. I'm personally planning on rolling some new characters that I'll set aside to be "no-AH/no-twink" characters. Much like in D2 when I would make a new character with a friend and we'd agree with each other not to twink our characters out.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6317360/6317360#dropratesah
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EPT
