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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:32 c0ldfusion wrote: For a 33 year old you sure are a prolific poster on these forums :3 I do a lot of document reviewing and other BS at my job. Sometimes I am hold for half an hour while I wait to get in contact with my clients, who are needed bitches. Due to that, I have some times to post. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote: how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Because the game designers had to adjust to the problems of the AH through the game design itself which made the experience for people who refused to use the AH an awkward and unsatisfying experience. At least compared to a game like D2. | ||
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unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
And partyplay was so poorly planned out holy balls. That's what made many of my friends quit. We played hardcore only and in HC there was no reason whatsoever to play in a party - things hit so damn hard and took too long to kill it wasn't worth the risk. Think we lost a few people dying due to this and then there was just never any partying, just solo play. Another big deal breaker for me is the fact that if u DC, you stay ingame for almost a minute at times and that just makes HC unplayable tbh. But D3 is just D2 without the fun. Very similar abilities - no fun. No build variety at all, no runewords, low level items mean nothing, every way to powerlevel nerfed to the ground, quests only give gold and xp - nothing fun like imbuing. Later both gold and XP nerfed into the ground making quests completely pointless. Bosses dropped _nothing_ usefull at relase and for a long time. And it just goes on and on. The weird part is that Jay Wilson was a MASSIVE Diablo 2 fan geek, involved in community websites and everything before he started at Blizzard - and then he managed to make this. Diablo 2 with just about all the fun and diversity taken out of it. But i mean there is hope, LoD added huge depth to the game imo and i cannot think of Diablo 2 without LoD and Blizzard should be aware of why D3 sucks since there is no shortage of rant posts everywhere. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
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KiWiKaKi
Canada691 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:41 KiWiKaKi wrote: Yet you are here Post of the thread. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote: i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. The problem is that this removes the social/trade aspect of the game entirely...which is really the fun part about Diablo. If you don't use it and you trade with people who do you are just using it through proxy. There is no way to know who is using it, so you either play with an extremely limited group of close friends or you play entirely alone. Both of which suck. Then the fact that the drop rates and game difficulty have to be planned around the vast majority of players who do use it has a serious impact on your game anyway. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:37 DannyJ wrote: Because the game designers had to adjust to the problems of the AH through the game design itself which made the experience for people who refused to use the AH an awkward and unsatisfying experience. At least compared to a game like D2. i don't see where they adjusted the game design to counteract the AH. the opposite makes more sense; they did everything possible to make the AH obsolete. care to cite some examples? and i still fail to see how people who didn't use the AH can complain about an awkward and unsatisfying experience because of AH. they made the game easier, not harder, and thus, the effect of cheaper high end gear on AH/RMAH is irrelevant. if they had made the game harder because of the availability of high end gear, i can see your point, but they didn't. they did the opposite. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:41 KiWiKaKi wrote: Yet you are here Touche. It is, after all, the first thread in General. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:47 Loanshark wrote: Touche. It is, after all, the first thread in General. Even if this is just a general forum you still decided to make a post, letting us all know how much you don't care about Blizzard. Much like how people don't really care that you don't care. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:46 sob3k wrote: The problem is that this removes the social/trade aspect of the game entirely...which is really the fun part about Diablo. If you don't use it and you trade with people who do you are just using it through proxy. There is no way to know who is using it, so you either play with an extremely limited group of close friends or you play entirely alone. Both of which suck. Then the fact that the drop rates and game difficulty have to be planned around the vast majority of players who do use it has a serious impact on your game anyway. the social aspect was removed because there were no chat channels at first and they punished group play. completely unrelated to AH/RMAH. i am not sure what you mean by it being a trade game. i have never considered it a trade game. i guess if you consider it a trade game then your experience may be impacted because they added an easier marketplace. big box store vs. mom and pop kind of thing. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:46 dAPhREAk wrote: i don't see where they adjusted the game design to counteract the AH. the opposite makes more sense; they did everything possible to make the AH obsolete. care to cite some examples? and i still fail to see how people who didn't use the AH can complain about an awkward and unsatisfying experience because of AH. they made the game easier, not harder, and thus, the effect of cheaper high end gear on AH/RMAH is irrelevant. if they had made the game harder because of the availability of high end gear, i can see your point, but they didn't. they did the opposite. I'm not really sure how the game being "easier" or "harder" has anything to do with it. Diablo is a franchise (at least to most of it's fans) that revolves around gear drops and that desire to hit that next pinata because of what might be inside. The AH really fucked up the rarity and value of drops. I mean if Blizzard themselves stated they wish they could take back the decision to implement Gold/Real money AH it's clear it messed stuff up. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:11 dAPhREAk wrote: i've never understood the hate directed towards AH and RMAH. if you don't like it, don't use it. if other people use it, it has absolutely no effect on your game. you're wrong. blizzard constructed the itemization and drop rates with the assumption people are going to use the AH. To avoid massive inflation they made the good 'unique' drops or the chances of incredible rares much more rare than in d2. this was talked about ad nauseum during release. the developers through countless patches have tried to address this issue, unique buffs, increasing magic find etc. but for the vast majority of d3 release it was a fools errand to play self found no AH with any sort of efficiency, this is not the case in d2. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:52 DannyJ wrote: I'm not really sure how the game being "easier" or "harder" has anything to do with it. Diablo is a franchise that revolves around gear drops and that desire to hit that next pinata because of what might be inside. The AH really fucked up the rarity and value of drops. I mean if Blizzard themselves stated they wish they could take back the decision to implement Gold/Real money AH it's clear it messed stuff up. you have yet to shown me how the gameplay is affected for a person who does not want to and does not use the AH. in my opinion, people who dont like AH/RMAH are the ones who want to spend hours and hours grinding and are pissed that people can just buy the gear. it makes their meaningless lives feel like exactly what they are, meaningless. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:57 dAPhREAk wrote: you have yet to shown me how the gameplay is affected for a person who does not want to and does not use the AH. in my opinion, people who dont like AH/RMAH are the ones who want to spend hours and hours grinding and are pissed that people can just buy the gear. it makes their meaningless lives feel like exactly what they are, meaningless. A game that makes playing the game for hours and hours seem meaningless is a very poorly designed game. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
Well, they had to use it eventually. Diablo can only die so many times. | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On August 15 2013 07:27 Cite wrote: This really does seem like you have taken the most popular arguments for d3's failure (not yours personally) and tried to use them as yours. The fact of the matter is this - Beta was limited, no youtubers COULD get to inferno even if they wanted - Error 37 only lasted for a day or two at most - Maps are both generated and randomly, which is why botting took so long to deal with areas such as arreat crater, and all inner zone levels (I'd know because I was one of those much hatter botters with a pretty sizable set up) - You were never forced to stack mods, its always the community implying this min/maxing to be efficient. This is such a moot argument for the entire case Im not even sure why its included as its mostly opinion based - Once again the RMAH was still a personal choice of using it or not. There is no competitive nature in this game YET (the pvp currently can't be compared since we know what they had planned ie areans etc). Sure it did mean the majority ended up under the impression you had to use it but by no means did you have to. - Im not quite sure how party play is punished but would be great if you went more in depth. Though I have to say it did have its downfalls, I just hate it when people come in spewing crap - After the game was released most reviews came out way before anyone could've started to explore inferno. - Error 37 varied a lot from person to person but the game was barely playable due to lag for along time, although that wasn't anyone's fault because of how many people bought D3 (it just made playing a ranged character very painful). - If you go farming you'll notice that many of the places are barely random, sometimes it's the dungeon spawns in a different spot but it's no where near D2 random zones. Sometimes the exit is always on the right hand side (halls of agony level 2 i think). - If you wanted to progress in inferno before it got nerfed to nothing everyone was forced to similar mods, and for gear progression most people measure by effective health/dps. The only unique builds that stand out in my mind (for item affixes/prefixes) are the 0 CD zombie dogs and critical mass wiz builds. And critical mass wiz just values some mods higher than others there's not much unique about it. You can say "you don't have to follow the min/max style" which is correct, but min/maxing is the only way to compare loot etc which is a big draw for D3. Not many people are really hyped when they talk about a Tank Demon Hunter because they can go see someone playing with a min/max DH which can clear screens in seconds while they take minutes to do so, or they can look at a monk/barb which will tank much more effectively than they can. If being unique is your cup of tea in a hack/slash rpg then that's great but you're probably in a minority. -The AH in general is optional (i played self found on hardcore and it was fun finding my own loot) and if you've looked at blizz forums recently you'll find a lot of threads of self found vs AH trolling. But even finding my own loot i'd pick items that gave a sense of progression from their mods. - Party play kicked the crap out of everyone for a long time because of how much monsters scaled per player (damage and hp), if you want specifics take a quick look at the nerfs blizz implemented in their patches. Props to blizz for smooth controls, and outstanding artwork/visuals (Blizz is #1 worldwide for art/sounds/visuals in my mind) but the items are still boring, PvP isn't actually in the game (dueling is a very poor substitute) and there have been bugs/exploits galore despite forced online play. I got my moneys worth out of the game but i still feel like they took a step backwards or sideways at best from where D2 left off in game play and it all feels like aiming for consoles and the RMAH dragged down the people making the game. In all honesty if they released the game as it is today (ubers, paragon levels, dueling instead of full pvp) minus the AH and a promise of an item overhaul on the horizon (people were actually disappointed when they saw legendaries drop for a long time because they'd know it was guaranteed to suck) then I'd be quite happy. I'm not going to be instabuying any games based on blizz's recent history though, they're going to have to hit the D3 expansion out of the park for me to consider buying it. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote: how? if you dont like AH/RMAH, you don't use it and it affects you in no way. it only affects people who choose to use it, and if you choose to use it, you really have no complaints. which is fine. if you dont like it, dont use it. its not going to affect your own gameplay. if your happiness is based on other people having better gear because they used AH, you really need to get out more. if there was pvp then that would be a different story, but there isnt. Well the problem is that if there is a real money auction hall, then people who get the best drop are going to sell them on the real money auction hall rather than the regular auction hall. It is quiet obvious that the real money auction hall have superior item than the regular auction. Having a game revolve around the auction halls, the ability to purchase item from anyone around the world, mean that ALL the drop in diablo 3 inferno are going to be SHIT (mostly). This is so that the game is flooded with people with OP item and to make the real money auction hall relevant. This is also why people have more success farming for gold to buy the gear rather than farming an item. So people who refuses to use the real money auction hall are shafted because the drop rate on good item are SHIT just so Blizzard can keep the real money auction hall. They still have access to the regular Auction house but it only lead them to decent item and nothing as amazing as the real money auction house. If they remove the real money auction house, then everyone will have to rely on the regular auction hall, I think this would be better. TLDR: Because the real money auction hall and regular auction hall exist, the drop rate on all item have to be shit to maintain a stable economy. Therefore people will have to farm gold to buy the item rather than actually farming gear. Just having these in the game has a huge impact on everyone and to say that "If you dont like it, dont use it." is rather silly. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:57 dAPhREAk wrote: you have yet to shown me how the gameplay is affected for a person who does not want to and does not use the AH. in my opinion, people who dont like AH/RMAH are the ones who want to spend hours and hours grinding and are pissed that people can just buy the gear. it makes their meaningless lives feel like exactly what they are, meaningless. Well, ok, if we are going to assume the loot drops in a DIABLO franchise don't effect your enjoyment of the game, I guess D3 could be an ok game. Sadly, most people who kept the franchise as loved and long lived as it was DO care about the way loot is dropped, and D3 fucked it up, as the game designer admitted. Good day sir. one edit: and of course I'm not just talking super end game loot dropping. Even just for people that wanted to "beat" the game they would have a very hard time doing so without the AH's, which I've been assuming is just a well known fact by now. Loot drops and their implementation mean a ton. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:57 dAPhREAk wrote: you have yet to shown me how the gameplay is affected for a person who does not want to and does not use the AH. in my opinion, people who dont like AH/RMAH are the ones who want to spend hours and hours grinding and are pissed that people can just buy the gear. it makes their meaningless lives feel like exactly what they are, meaningless. You can have whatever opinion you want, but the game play is affected for the self found person because that self-found person had no real chance at every having 'good' enough gear to advance. It was just statistically impossible to play Self-Found and be able to clear Inferno with the original itemization and drop rates. It was not impossible to play self-found and clear hell in d2, not in the slightest. The game has undergone so many changes and so many nerfs in difficulty you could possible do full self-found at this point, but I can't imagine even after all of the changes it would be very efficient. Might be though. Game play of the non self-found is adjusted just as much as well because of the RMAH system. The 'fun' of diablo is generally finding items, when finding legit, amazing items is severely diminished to account for the AH, it generally lessens the fun for most players. I think most people who played Diablo1/2 and looked forward to D3 would rather FIND great items while playing rather than look for very minuscule min/max upgrades on an AH interface. At this point I'll bow out of the conversation. I don't have interest in discussing the same arguments from over a year ago. I was insane about D2 and took a week off of work for D3. I played it night and day for about 2-3 weeks after release and was one of the first barbs to clear pre-nerf inferno (top 10 or so iirc). I ended up cashing out on the RMAH when I realized the game was not for me. I hope the expansion is good because I'd love to actually want to play a Diablo game. My childhood aches for a good Diablo game! | ||
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