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On August 21 2012 04:56 HardlyNever wrote:
So much drama over nothing...
The game was a commercial success, which is basically all you can ask for from a game developer (from a company perspective). Whether that success is related to D1 or D2 or the current developers (or, more likely, a combination of both) can't really be determined (but I know some of you will try...). I know there is "untold community rage" saying how terrible the game was, but... I've yet to find any reliable, concrete numbers about how disgruntled the "community" is about it (In b4 that xfire graph).
Either way, the interview wasn't that scathing, and D3 sold incredibly well, and they are still patching it. I'd buy the expansion in a heart-beat unless it looked deliberately horrible. That is a success in my book.
X-men 3 and Spiderman 3 were commercial successes, too. Spiderman just recently had the entire franchise rebooted.
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On August 21 2012 05:47 solidbebe wrote:
Hmmm peet cooper is a good dude.
Damage control, lol.
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If I was blizzard I would fire jay Wilson. Based on pure sales diablo 3 did great but clearly this was just a piggy back off the diablo franchise name. Blizzard is a company known for taking its
Time developing games making sure they are perfect before release, diablo 3 did not meet this standard. In fact between the big 3; Warcraft Starcraft and diablo franchises this is really the first failure of the three.
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On August 20 2012 18:17 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 18:05 Talack wrote:
There has to be more to this...
The d3 team is losing their shit over that small thing of the d2 developer saying that he liked some things and didn't like other parts of the d3 game? None of it seemed offensive/snide.
He actually made clear that he feels like his team was much more talented and the current team is basically shit and loves to see them fail. I mean just because you don't outright say it you can still be an arrogant prick. Apart from that though, the Blizz Devs should know better and not respond to stuff like this at all. In the end pathetic incgamers journalism won.
I agree so much with this but with the way reddit/forums work + the amount of hate on d3 people wont really bother to actually think before they write/post/tweet. Yes he didn't out right say the d3 team was fucking bad but he could have said so many different things. I don't mind that he said what he did as they did ask for an honest answer and he has left blizzard (not sure if on good terms even) so I wouldn't expect him to give a full pr response.
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Looks at D3 and what a quality video game it is....
Looks at Jay Wilson and what a quality human being he is....
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW
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On August 21 2012 03:05 bakedace wrote:
It doesn't fucking matter matter what game he made after blizzard north! The fact is that he created diablo 2. Arguing that diablo 3 is "the most selling game ever" is just stupid, Diablo 3 only sold as well as it did because of diablo 2.
Jay Wilson making that comment, forced a ton of lost respect for the guy. How are you gonna fire the man, ruin his game then call him a loser!!! WOW!!!
Nono, you got it all wrong, diablo3 clearly sold that well because it had a 6month long beta and people knew what they were getting for their money after playing to lvl 13 for 10 times!!1
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On August 21 2012 05:51 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 05:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 21 2012 04:56 HardlyNever wrote:
So much drama over nothing...
The game was a commercial success, which is basically all you can ask for from a game developer (from a company perspective). Whether that success is related to D1 or D2 or the current developers (or, more likely, a combination of both) can't really be determined (but I know some of you will try...). I know there is "untold community rage" saying how terrible the game was, but... I've yet to find any reliable, concrete numbers about how disgruntled the "community" is about it (In b4 that xfire graph).
Either way, the interview wasn't that scathing, and D3 sold incredibly well, and they are still patching it. I'd buy the expansion in a heart-beat unless it looked deliberately horrible. That is a success in my book. Success for Blizzard is on an entirely different margin than other companies. Blizzard has huge gaps in between franchises, and basically relies on massive success of an initial release, and then sales of add-ons and expansions to generate further revenue. To put it simply, much of Blizzard's profits relies on releasing a big game once every 5 years or so, and then sitting on that game while they work the next development cycle. So while record breaking release sales may be amazing for another company, Blizzard still needs to the continued sales and continued revenue, because that's their business model. And as for the community response, all you need to look at is the official statements. The only celebratory statements are about breaking pre-sale records and day-one sales. After that, every official post is essentially "sorry for server problems" and "the game is getting better". Try to remember the last time any company CEO had to make an official statement saying "I know there are problems, but we're working on them". If it was just a vocal minority, Blizzard would be sitting back and making blog posts about how sales are still strong, and how successful D3 is (just like ever other company). But they aren't, they're apologizing and promising future updates every single time. There is some bizarre logic going on in this post... First, virtually EVERY major PC developer works on either the "blizzard model (a game every few years or a game a year at best), or the micro-transaction, F2P model that is on the rise (LoL, soon to be Dota 2). D3 even has micro transactions. No PC developer does the "hey we'll remake the same game every year with one new thingy" you see in the console market. This game has already outsold the entire library of most smaller PC game developers that are still in business. Blizzard doesn't "need" it do sell any more. Of course, if it did, that would be great. The official statements thing just makes no sense. Virtually every official statement from a game company will be addressing some issue or another. Would you expect a lot of posts saying "Hey we're glad you guys like the game, thanks for the support." That would serve no purpose. You might see an odd one of those here or there, but the vast majority of "official responses" will always be addressing problems/issues. That is what they are there for. That is why those people get paid...
That's exactly why they decided to release a patch that actually 'improve' the game 3 months after released. Should we be grateful that they still working on the game or should we be mad that they did it this 'late'? Neither. Because if they actually developed the game properly the whole shit storm of 'D3 sucks' wouldn't happen in the first place. We all PAID for a beta testing.
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honestly, David Brevik is simply right with everything he says. d3 isnt even comparable to d2 in its long term fun.
The items are boring and just "wrong", the structure of skills and stats even more so. The only thing i enjoyed in d3 was playing through normal honestly. the lategame is terrible - even Titan Quest did this better.
€: 1.04 acutally makes the game better. from an 85 to an 87 out of 100. Diablo 2 had 101.
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On August 21 2012 06:48 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 05:51 HardlyNever wrote:On August 21 2012 05:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 21 2012 04:56 HardlyNever wrote:
So much drama over nothing...
The game was a commercial success, which is basically all you can ask for from a game developer (from a company perspective). Whether that success is related to D1 or D2 or the current developers (or, more likely, a combination of both) can't really be determined (but I know some of you will try...). I know there is "untold community rage" saying how terrible the game was, but... I've yet to find any reliable, concrete numbers about how disgruntled the "community" is about it (In b4 that xfire graph).
Either way, the interview wasn't that scathing, and D3 sold incredibly well, and they are still patching it. I'd buy the expansion in a heart-beat unless it looked deliberately horrible. That is a success in my book. Success for Blizzard is on an entirely different margin than other companies. Blizzard has huge gaps in between franchises, and basically relies on massive success of an initial release, and then sales of add-ons and expansions to generate further revenue. To put it simply, much of Blizzard's profits relies on releasing a big game once every 5 years or so, and then sitting on that game while they work the next development cycle. So while record breaking release sales may be amazing for another company, Blizzard still needs to the continued sales and continued revenue, because that's their business model. And as for the community response, all you need to look at is the official statements. The only celebratory statements are about breaking pre-sale records and day-one sales. After that, every official post is essentially "sorry for server problems" and "the game is getting better". Try to remember the last time any company CEO had to make an official statement saying "I know there are problems, but we're working on them". If it was just a vocal minority, Blizzard would be sitting back and making blog posts about how sales are still strong, and how successful D3 is (just like ever other company). But they aren't, they're apologizing and promising future updates every single time. There is some bizarre logic going on in this post... First, virtually EVERY major PC developer works on either the "blizzard model (a game every few years or a game a year at best), or the micro-transaction, F2P model that is on the rise (LoL, soon to be Dota 2). D3 even has micro transactions. No PC developer does the "hey we'll remake the same game every year with one new thingy" you see in the console market. This game has already outsold the entire library of most smaller PC game developers that are still in business. Blizzard doesn't "need" it do sell any more. Of course, if it did, that would be great. The official statements thing just makes no sense. Virtually every official statement from a game company will be addressing some issue or another. Would you expect a lot of posts saying "Hey we're glad you guys like the game, thanks for the support." That would serve no purpose. You might see an odd one of those here or there, but the vast majority of "official responses" will always be addressing problems/issues. That is what they are there for. That is why those people get paid... That's exactly why they decided to release a patch that actually 'improve' the game 3 months after released. Should we be grateful that they still working on the game or should we be mad that they did it this 'late'? Neither. Because if they actually developed the game properly the whole shit storm of 'D3 sucks' wouldn't happen in the first place. We all PAID for a beta testing.
In my opinion it's not even to be called a patch anymore, theyre bringing in an entire new paragon system that looks like it could be from an expansion which seems to me they just pulled that paragon thing ahead of time just to save players.
To me that action feels like it's even worse with the d3 playerbase than most of us suspect.
2nd of all look at that remark by Jill Harrington (works for blizzard) on the facebook discussion: "Oh, incgamers. Paragons of objectivity."
Incgamers is almost the teamliquid of diablo afaik so that's how they feel about the community. Also that entire facebook discussion reeks of elitism "we are blizzard and can do no wrong" except for a few people.
I know you can feel a bit attacked if someone complains about your work but the interview has no harsh comments at all and they're all adults so please think about what you say. Looks very immature by the blizzard folks lol.
For me this proves that blizzard does not give a fuck about our feelings until shit hits the fan.
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The second response is really funny. I thought only trolls used the "it sold the most therefore it's the best" logic.....but apparently Blizzard employees actually believe that, too. Pretty eye opening, but it makes sense though, considering their big guy Jay Wilson is a mess himself.
We're really lucky to have things like Facebook and the internet to let us have little glimpses of things that otherwise the normal public would never see, ever. Really changes the way you look at the world.
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On August 21 2012 07:14 Spiffeh wrote:
The second response is really funny. I thought only trolls used the "it sold the most therefore it's the best" logic.....but apparently Blizzard employees actually believe that, too.
The irony in that is that the dude who says that is actually the "Product Development Lead" (at least that's what I think it was called... lol job titles). A guy who is directly in charge of the overall development of the brand seriously thinks that the major thing that sold Diablo III was its quality.
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On August 21 2012 07:14 Spiffeh wrote:
The second response is really funny. I thought only trolls used the "it sold the most therefore it's the best" logic.....but apparently Blizzard employees actually believe that, too. Pretty eye opening, but it makes sense though, considering their big guy Jay Wilson is a mess himself.
We're really lucky to have things like Facebook and the internet to let us have little glimpses of things that otherwise the normal public would never see, ever. Really changes the way you look at the world.
It's kind of sad when you look at the answers from the Blizzard guys. Super-defensive replies all around. I can it can't be helped when the game is such a mess.
I think I made the right decision by choosing not to buy any future Blizzard games.
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I really wonder how D3 would have done without the name but beeing a new IP by an unknown company.
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He took the term "Jay Wilson'd" and doubled it.
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Brevik was completely classy and articulate in his critique and provided honest answers to direct questions.
Wilson comes across like a 6 year old who turned in a shitty finger painting and then started crying because he overheard someone outside his family say it wasn't perfect.
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On August 21 2012 07:04 reki- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 06:48 BurningSera wrote:On August 21 2012 05:51 HardlyNever wrote:On August 21 2012 05:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 21 2012 04:56 HardlyNever wrote:
So much drama over nothing...
The game was a commercial success, which is basically all you can ask for from a game developer (from a company perspective). Whether that success is related to D1 or D2 or the current developers (or, more likely, a combination of both) can't really be determined (but I know some of you will try...). I know there is "untold community rage" saying how terrible the game was, but... I've yet to find any reliable, concrete numbers about how disgruntled the "community" is about it (In b4 that xfire graph).
Either way, the interview wasn't that scathing, and D3 sold incredibly well, and they are still patching it. I'd buy the expansion in a heart-beat unless it looked deliberately horrible. That is a success in my book. Success for Blizzard is on an entirely different margin than other companies. Blizzard has huge gaps in between franchises, and basically relies on massive success of an initial release, and then sales of add-ons and expansions to generate further revenue. To put it simply, much of Blizzard's profits relies on releasing a big game once every 5 years or so, and then sitting on that game while they work the next development cycle. So while record breaking release sales may be amazing for another company, Blizzard still needs to the continued sales and continued revenue, because that's their business model. And as for the community response, all you need to look at is the official statements. The only celebratory statements are about breaking pre-sale records and day-one sales. After that, every official post is essentially "sorry for server problems" and "the game is getting better". Try to remember the last time any company CEO had to make an official statement saying "I know there are problems, but we're working on them". If it was just a vocal minority, Blizzard would be sitting back and making blog posts about how sales are still strong, and how successful D3 is (just like ever other company). But they aren't, they're apologizing and promising future updates every single time. There is some bizarre logic going on in this post... First, virtually EVERY major PC developer works on either the "blizzard model (a game every few years or a game a year at best), or the micro-transaction, F2P model that is on the rise (LoL, soon to be Dota 2). D3 even has micro transactions. No PC developer does the "hey we'll remake the same game every year with one new thingy" you see in the console market. This game has already outsold the entire library of most smaller PC game developers that are still in business. Blizzard doesn't "need" it do sell any more. Of course, if it did, that would be great. The official statements thing just makes no sense. Virtually every official statement from a game company will be addressing some issue or another. Would you expect a lot of posts saying "Hey we're glad you guys like the game, thanks for the support." That would serve no purpose. You might see an odd one of those here or there, but the vast majority of "official responses" will always be addressing problems/issues. That is what they are there for. That is why those people get paid... That's exactly why they decided to release a patch that actually 'improve' the game 3 months after released. Should we be grateful that they still working on the game or should we be mad that they did it this 'late'? Neither. Because if they actually developed the game properly the whole shit storm of 'D3 sucks' wouldn't happen in the first place. We all PAID for a beta testing. In my opinion it's not even to be called a patch anymore, theyre bringing in an entire new paragon system that looks like it could be from an expansion which seems to me they just pulled that paragon thing ahead of time just to save players. To me that action feels like it's even worse with the d3 playerbase than most of us suspect.
You know they also released D2 patch 1.10 which is "not even to be called a patch anymore", pretty much completely revamping the entire game? And they did this about 3 years after release?
I don't understand how you can possibly bitch about new, good, free content being released.
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On August 21 2012 07:55 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 07:04 reki- wrote:On August 21 2012 06:48 BurningSera wrote:On August 21 2012 05:51 HardlyNever wrote:On August 21 2012 05:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 21 2012 04:56 HardlyNever wrote:
So much drama over nothing...
The game was a commercial success, which is basically all you can ask for from a game developer (from a company perspective). Whether that success is related to D1 or D2 or the current developers (or, more likely, a combination of both) can't really be determined (but I know some of you will try...). I know there is "untold community rage" saying how terrible the game was, but... I've yet to find any reliable, concrete numbers about how disgruntled the "community" is about it (In b4 that xfire graph).
Either way, the interview wasn't that scathing, and D3 sold incredibly well, and they are still patching it. I'd buy the expansion in a heart-beat unless it looked deliberately horrible. That is a success in my book. Success for Blizzard is on an entirely different margin than other companies. Blizzard has huge gaps in between franchises, and basically relies on massive success of an initial release, and then sales of add-ons and expansions to generate further revenue. To put it simply, much of Blizzard's profits relies on releasing a big game once every 5 years or so, and then sitting on that game while they work the next development cycle. So while record breaking release sales may be amazing for another company, Blizzard still needs to the continued sales and continued revenue, because that's their business model. And as for the community response, all you need to look at is the official statements. The only celebratory statements are about breaking pre-sale records and day-one sales. After that, every official post is essentially "sorry for server problems" and "the game is getting better". Try to remember the last time any company CEO had to make an official statement saying "I know there are problems, but we're working on them". If it was just a vocal minority, Blizzard would be sitting back and making blog posts about how sales are still strong, and how successful D3 is (just like ever other company). But they aren't, they're apologizing and promising future updates every single time. There is some bizarre logic going on in this post... First, virtually EVERY major PC developer works on either the "blizzard model (a game every few years or a game a year at best), or the micro-transaction, F2P model that is on the rise (LoL, soon to be Dota 2). D3 even has micro transactions. No PC developer does the "hey we'll remake the same game every year with one new thingy" you see in the console market. This game has already outsold the entire library of most smaller PC game developers that are still in business. Blizzard doesn't "need" it do sell any more. Of course, if it did, that would be great. The official statements thing just makes no sense. Virtually every official statement from a game company will be addressing some issue or another. Would you expect a lot of posts saying "Hey we're glad you guys like the game, thanks for the support." That would serve no purpose. You might see an odd one of those here or there, but the vast majority of "official responses" will always be addressing problems/issues. That is what they are there for. That is why those people get paid... That's exactly why they decided to release a patch that actually 'improve' the game 3 months after released. Should we be grateful that they still working on the game or should we be mad that they did it this 'late'? Neither. Because if they actually developed the game properly the whole shit storm of 'D3 sucks' wouldn't happen in the first place. We all PAID for a beta testing. In my opinion it's not even to be called a patch anymore, theyre bringing in an entire new paragon system that looks like it could be from an expansion which seems to me they just pulled that paragon thing ahead of time just to save players. To me that action feels like it's even worse with the d3 playerbase than most of us suspect. You know they also released D2 patch 1.10 which is "not even to be called a patch anymore", pretty much completely revamping the entire game? And they did this about 3 years after release? I don't understand how you can possibly bitch about new, good, free content being released.
Because it being "good" is subjective.
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On August 21 2012 06:35 IamPryda wrote:
If I was blizzard I would fire jay Wilson. Based on pure sales diablo 3 did great but clearly this was just a piggy back off the diablo franchise name. Blizzard is a company known for taking its
Time developing games making sure they are perfect before release, diablo 3 did not meet this standard. In fact between the big 3; Warcraft Starcraft and diablo franchises this is really the first failure of the three.
Uh, in your opinion. A lot of people consider SC2 to be a failure. In terms of sales it definately was not a failure. And it seems to be the consensus among the community that the game is very good for the first 60 hours or so, which is way more than you can get from the majority of any game.
But back on topic, how in the hell could Jay Wilson be so careless? Does he not know that people can take screenshots of FB? The interview wasn't even that bad either. Brevik was politely saying that he didn't like the game. How is that throwing anyone under the bus?
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On August 21 2012 06:26 MdD wrote:Damage control, lol.
I looked him up, and it seems he's actually now working for Riot o.O (since near the end of June). Shit, I hope this doesn't reveal a trend of the good-guys of Blizzard getting hired by all the other game companies... xD
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On August 21 2012 08:18 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 06:35 IamPryda wrote:
If I was blizzard I would fire jay Wilson. Based on pure sales diablo 3 did great but clearly this was just a piggy back off the diablo franchise name. Blizzard is a company known for taking its
Time developing games making sure they are perfect before release, diablo 3 did not meet this standard. In fact between the big 3; Warcraft Starcraft and diablo franchises this is really the first failure of the three. Uh, in your opinion. A lot of people consider SC2 to be a failure. In terms of sales it definately was not a failure. And it seems to be the consensus among the community that the game is very good for the first 60 hours or so, which is way more than you can get from the majority of any game. But back on topic, how in the hell could Jay Wilson be so careless? Does he not know that people can take screenshots of FB? The interview wasn't even that bad either. Brevik was politely saying that he didn't like the game. How is that throwing anyone under the bus?
Yep, he was careless, brash, and childish. It was probably a visceral reaction. Many people get them when they put a whole lot of effort into something and it gets publicly criticized. It must be particularly stressful to see your game get bashed permanently (despite the huge sales and a large amount of people who enjoy the game), and then see someone come from the bench and criticize your game not only doing that but also managing to load up a huge bunch of fuel to the bonfire created by the haters, who now have "official backup" to keep on bashing.
I understand the feeling, but Wilson is a professional and should have moderated his response.
Personally I feel D3 is a good game, but released way too quickly. Even though Blizzard games normally take their big share of patches to feel complete (Many, many people though that SC2 was shit at release, even D2 was crappy at the beginning), D3's case is a bit extreme and I've always felt it was rushed because of some corporate reason not known to the public. This behavior is extremely unblizzlike and I think something must have happened there, but that's another topic (Also, the game is clearly not a failure). Suffice to say, the game has a bright future, but this type of thing cannot happen publicly to someone like Wilson, it's not acceptable.
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EPT
