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On May 22 2012 20:59 musai wrote:
Inferno is complete shit, melee is useless after act 2, they're pretty bad in act 2 already. The mobs hit so hard that even white mobs in act 4 will 1 shot a geared tank. All melee is good for is buffing / ressing. I'm kind of sad they fixed the chest farming in act 2 so quickly, would have been nice to get some easy gear before progressing into inferno.
Only Wizards abusing the 35% bug or DH spamming smoke screen can do anything in the later acts, wonder why those haven't been fixed yet but the monk raid bubble was fixed.
It's nice they tried to make inferno difficult, but having mobs that simply 1 shot you with regular melee isn't the way to go.
Neither of those things are bugs, the 35% armor is working exactly as described in the tooltip and so is smokescreen. Other classes just need similar effects. The 30% reduced damage melee takes is not even close to enough.
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Just TLDR for everyone... Don't play Inferno difficulty and just play the 5 classes until Hell only.  That's what I'm going to be doing.
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There are so many problems... that patches would not fix... the boss mechanics and abilites or the champions ablities have to be a major over haul... there shouldnt be any skill those monster do that can a) 1 shot you (no way to micro and use ur skills) b) skills that trap you without the possibility to escape or to use your skills to escape (fix the imoobilize skills, frozen, skills and wall skills so they can be destructable like the way in D2 when diablo prisons you but u can destroy it and escape.. those skills that totally limit ur ability to escape and dodge should never be in this game or any game.... Sc2's force field is another example that render the player useless
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I agree that there are balances issues that need to be addressed.
But a lot of you guys here are just asking for Blizzard to do better.
Like people want their Barbarian to be tankier or that you don't get one/two shot in Inferno so easily and so on.
Well I ask you, think about the overall game design, where even in Inferno you'd be able to tank a bit but it doesn't get shit easy.
How would you do that?
That stuff is just VERY hard to do. Designing a super solid, un-abusable combat system that doesn't make compromises at some parts - I'd argue it's impossible.
Should the Barbarian be tankier considering how much of a melee class he is? Sure, I'm playing one myself and it feels odd.
But overall making Inferno mobs not hit as hard but also make it really hard? How? Do you suddenly forbid Potions and other regeneration? Gamedesign is no easy topic, even if a lot of people seem to think so. If you want certain changes, look at the implicit shift in gameplay that would cause. I'm not saying there aren't way better systems, but getting to them / knowing what they are? Well, that is just another research topic for eternities.
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wow. so much whine.
1) farm more gear. Yes, doing butcher runs over and over again sucks, but farm-runs are not a "stupid part" of the game they ARE the game!
2) Everybody whined when they first entered hell. Some went back and farmed, other went to the AH. Now inferno (espcially post Act1) is a massively bigger jump in difficulty, so the need to farm is massively bigger. The gear is out there. Farm it, or farm money. With 50 million gold, you could equip any char from the AH to be able to beat the game. So here we go again: Farming IS Diablo. Its not Skyrim or Mass Effect.
3) I agree, that the Wizard needs a fix. Its the only class excluded from the FARM MOAR gdamnit rule.
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On May 23 2012 00:42 vanTuni wrote:
wow. so much whine.
1) farm more gear. Yes, doing butcher runs over and over again sucks, but farm-runs are not a "stupid part" of the game they ARE the game!
2) Everybody whined when they first entered hell. Some went back and farmed, other went to the AH. Now inferno (espcially post Act1) is a massively bigger jump in difficulty, so the need to farm is massively bigger. The gear is out there. Farm it, or farm money. With 50 million gold, you could equip any char from the AH to be able to beat the game. So here we go again: Farming IS Diablo. Its not Skyrim or Mass Effect.
3) I agree, that the Wizard needs a fix. Its the only class excluded from the FARM MOAR gdamnit rule.
I'm not on inferno but shouldn't the DH be excluded as well? you can easily get 30 sec invulnerability with smoke screen and solo that might be enough on inferno i suppose?
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On May 23 2012 00:42 vanTuni wrote:
wow. so much whine.
1) farm more gear. Yes, doing butcher runs over and over again sucks, but farm-runs are not a "stupid part" of the game they ARE the game!
2) Everybody whined when they first entered hell. Some went back and farmed, other went to the AH. Now inferno (espcially post Act1) is a massively bigger jump in difficulty, so the need to farm is massively bigger. The gear is out there. Farm it, or farm money. With 50 million gold, you could equip any char from the AH to be able to beat the game. So here we go again: Farming IS Diablo. Its not Skyrim or Mass Effect.
3) I agree, that the Wizard needs a fix. Its the only class excluded from the FARM MOAR gdamnit rule.
1) Sure, if it helps. According to most people, it seems it doesn't though, even barbarians with really good gear seems to have huge problems.
2) Same here, farming is cool, as long as it helps.
3) Dude, DH. Wizards use broken builds with really weird gear and huge problems to beat the game, DHs do it with their regular "good" gear.
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On May 22 2012 23:44 Crushgroove wrote:
Lots of balance whining here can be attributed to Blizzard's inability to create anything that is intellectually challenging.
This is the same thing that began happening in wow after the game was sort of figured out 5 or 6 years ago.
NEW BOSS/ELITE IS HARD BECAUSE [numbers] is a bad way to go, because there is a really really small sweet spot where its challenging. Its either next to impossible and un-fun because you just insta-die, or its really really really easy because you got more gear. I'd rather see things that make decision making really important and complicated than things that are either too hard or too easy based off of auction house usage. =/
seems a silly way to go.
I totally agree on the point you made in that post.
To top it off, it seems to me that the game was already "figured out" before it even went live. There are no new concepts to the gaming community, boss fights are dull and repetitive throughout the difficulties and champion packs come out as impossible rather than challenging based on RNG (affixes) rolls. And this lack of creativity (more of the same but shinier) hurts both the balance of the game and its replayability, as far as I'm concerned.
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On May 23 2012 00:42 vanTuni wrote:
wow. so much whine.
1) farm more gear. Yes, doing butcher runs over and over again sucks, but farm-runs are not a "stupid part" of the game they ARE the game!
2) Everybody whined when they first entered hell. Some went back and farmed, other went to the AH. Now inferno (espcially post Act1) is a massively bigger jump in difficulty, so the need to farm is massively bigger. The gear is out there. Farm it, or farm money. With 50 million gold, you could equip any char from the AH to be able to beat the game. So here we go again: Farming IS Diablo. Its not Skyrim or Mass Effect.
3) I agree, that the Wizard needs a fix. Its the only class excluded from the FARM MOAR gdamnit rule.
not talking about how hard the games ... the gear is linear and not fun or unique... the game is hard for different reasons... blizzard's concept of hard is mobs 1 shot you... without you being able to do anything about it... that should not be in the game.
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Ok, exclude the Dh broken build as well. I am a DH, but play groups only and dont use that crap. Since it wont help my group if I am invisible for 20 secs.
to the above point: Blizzard can be as genius as they want... they wont beat 10mio+ people with the internet to share tactics. numbers are their only option.
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On May 23 2012 00:45 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 00:42 vanTuni wrote:
wow. so much whine.
1) farm more gear. Yes, doing butcher runs over and over again sucks, but farm-runs are not a "stupid part" of the game they ARE the game!
2) Everybody whined when they first entered hell. Some went back and farmed, other went to the AH. Now inferno (espcially post Act1) is a massively bigger jump in difficulty, so the need to farm is massively bigger. The gear is out there. Farm it, or farm money. With 50 million gold, you could equip any char from the AH to be able to beat the game. So here we go again: Farming IS Diablo. Its not Skyrim or Mass Effect.
3) I agree, that the Wizard needs a fix. Its the only class excluded from the FARM MOAR gdamnit rule.
1) Sure, if it helps. According to most people, it seems it doesn't though, even barbarians with really good gear seems to have huge problems.
well... i dont think there is anybody with "really good gear" out there yet. if soeone has 1-2 good items, great, he was luckier than others. but i sincerely believe there are people out there who have top-rolled items in every slot. If there are, and they cant beat the game. Thats when we really can start talking about balance. Everything else.. meh
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On May 23 2012 00:54 vanTuni wrote:
Ok, exclude the Dh broken build as well. I am a DH, but play groups only and dont use that crap. Since it wont help my group if I am invisible for 20 secs.
to the above point: Blizzard can be as genius as they want... they wont beat 10mio+ people with the internet to share tactics. numbers are their only option.
doesnt take a genius to figure out blue item>legendaries is a problem they must have encountered in their testing...
and doesnt require a genius to use the skills THEY created and played with for years... such as the energy armor wizard or the smokescreen dh which gives them 30+ secs of invulnerability and then rince and repeat...
they are def not geniuses with the boring and lame linear stat system they created along with the item system with such dull and limited affix pool
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On May 23 2012 01:03 vanTuni wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 00:45 Tobberoth wrote:On May 23 2012 00:42 vanTuni wrote:
wow. so much whine.
1) farm more gear. Yes, doing butcher runs over and over again sucks, but farm-runs are not a "stupid part" of the game they ARE the game!
2) Everybody whined when they first entered hell. Some went back and farmed, other went to the AH. Now inferno (espcially post Act1) is a massively bigger jump in difficulty, so the need to farm is massively bigger. The gear is out there. Farm it, or farm money. With 50 million gold, you could equip any char from the AH to be able to beat the game. So here we go again: Farming IS Diablo. Its not Skyrim or Mass Effect.
3) I agree, that the Wizard needs a fix. Its the only class excluded from the FARM MOAR gdamnit rule.
1) Sure, if it helps. According to most people, it seems it doesn't though, even barbarians with really good gear seems to have huge problems. well... i dont think there is anybody with "really good gear" out there yet. if soeone has 1-2 good items, great, he was luckier than others. but i sincerely believe there are people out there who have top-rolled items in every slot. If there are, and they cant beat the game. Thats when we really can start talking about balance. Everything else.. meh
people already beat the game what are u talking about... there is no incentive of farming the better items because.. they are not really any better... ie i have a +100 vita armor ... so i want to farm more (hours/days) to get a +102 vita armor... not interesting or rewarding... in D2 farm and got a high rune... i can now make a rune word that will have unique stats and skills that were not available before.... thats interesting and drive the will to farm
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wow dude. you really are just bitter aren't you? never mind then. enjoy your day.
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On May 23 2012 01:09 vanTuni wrote:
wow dude. you really are just bitter aren't you? never mind then. enjoy your day.
people like you are the ones that are making games worse because no matter what blizzard does you support them... if you can see the flaws in the game which arent hard to see... it has been what 1 week and the flaws are pooring out of every facet of D3 its not even funny.
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I just got to inferno last night (as a monk) so I can't add a whole lot to the discussion. The 30% reduction for the melee classes isn't nearly enough, because where a ranged class is getting it by one thing, melee classes are getting hit by 3-4. It is just bad math, and just throwing damage reduction at two classes feels like a stopgap to a larger problem.
That said, I think people honestly expecting to be clearing inferno when the game is just over a week old are nuts. It seems like Blizzard just can't win on this one. If you were making progress, you'd have inferno cleared (legitimately, not skipping monsters) in about another week, maybe less. Then people would be bitching that inferno was a joke, and that Blizzard made it "too casual." As it is, people are saying it is impossible and broken. I don't see how they could come out well on this.
If a lot of people are in full inferno act1/act2 gear, and it is still impossible, then there probably is an issue. The wizard Force Armor definitely needs to be fixed (probably just an internal cooldown), as do probably the DH and monk builds. They knew they'd have to a do a big balance patch after release.
Right now it seems like just wait and see, and farm act 1 more (I get an amazing set item after 10 minutes in inferno, the loot is there). Things will probably be tweaked. I'd rather have it too hard than too easy right now.
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On May 23 2012 01:04 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
doesnt take a genius to figure out blue item>legendaries is a problem they must have encountered in their testing...
and doesnt require a genius to use the skills THEY created and played with for years... such as the energy armor wizard or the smokescreen dh which gives them 30+ secs of invulnerability and then rince and repeat...
they are def not geniuses with the boring and lame linear stat system they created along with the item system with such dull and limited affix pool
The blue item > ledendary problem is the same as what happened in WoW every time they released an expansion. You have to make the old best items bad somehow and force people to need new "best" items. Each Act in Inferno was explained as being a step up in gear levels, so the best stuff from Act 1 would in fact be worse than low level stuff from Act 2 if they did the item budgets right.
I'm not saying its a great system, but its the one that's in place so no reason to cry about it. Honestly, it sounds like the only solution some people will accept is to not even have blues/yellows/etc drop until hell and above.
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I'm making a new character, can't decide between wizard and demon hunter. Who do u think is better at getting through inferno?
Poll: Which is best for inferno?Wizard (14) 78% Demon Hunter (4) 22% 18 total votes Your vote: Which is best for inferno? (Vote): Wizard
(Vote): Demon Hunter
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I'd say it's 99% certain that they'll change smoke screen, dunno about the wizard. It should just give invisibilty like it says but not invulnerability and i bet they're gonna change that soon.
So rolling wizard might be a safer bet.
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EPT
