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On May 17 2012 11:58 vanTuni wrote:I've checked some of the builds here and a lot of them have flaws. This is stuff u learn from experience. For example: All the "get hatred back through prep" does not work because of the 45 sec (!) cd on prep. Everything that includes the "ultimate" Rain of Vengance is crap because that does like NO dmg/hatred compared to multishot and has a 30 sec (!) cd (unless u need the Stun on very high lvl play). My build for leveling in groups:I'm not really high yet. But at lvl 45 I use the following for leveling in groups: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WRdjkQ!aeb!bZZZbaThe mobility of Vault it super important as soon as you hit Nightmare imo. Only alternative is Smokescreen but thats mostly inferior if you ask me. Jumping in and out of danger, using the stun of the rune to save people, jumping for health globes is super good. Multishot with the reduced cost is by far the best dmg/hatred spell you have so use it. Bola is the best hate-gainer imho. I prefer the Acid rune. When you hit 42, the hungering with devour rune is a viable choice though. The turret is a way to spend your discipline for DMG and with the chain is actually deals decent dmg if used correctly. Alternatively you can use the hate-pet. There is almost NO kiting in this build. Since you wont kite effectively in groups 95% of the time. But to be able to do some, I chose Elemental with Ice as the single-target hate dump. Also, I dont see why people want to use the contagion rune on mark of death past lvl 39. Why hope for spreading the effect if you can have a HUGE aoe right away (valley of death). Comments welcome! Especially on how group play evolves in hell and beyond. PS: Oh .. I use dual-wield OFC 
i am using something similar, but i prefer to have the 30% lifeleech skill instead of a sentry.
i also use all the %dmg passives. more dmg on slow, more dmg for weapontype, more dmg for not being in melee.
dot know if multishot is needed when you have frostarrows, depends on if there are real HORDES of enemies i guess.
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In any hallway type level, grenades+tinkerer with double chakra owns. You can really use the grenades creatively to get good damage while generating TONS of fury for double chakra/whatever you use. I don't worry about dying too much with this setup because the dps is high and steady, make that leach ability (forgot the name) really effective when used with the stun caltrops. Not too good for open fields and bosses though.
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Multishot is worse than elemental arrow aoe wise...imo and u need one single target dps thing, i took rapid fire, but besides that my build looks close to that
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I'd say the best secondary is Chakram its potential damage output is large, and its cost makes it very efficent. I'm 48~ ish using a build like this. I can't think of a better AOE build really.
+ Show Spoiler +Smoke Screen is your getaway, and the glyph is very much preference. Displacement for the speed, or Lingering Fog are my two personal choices.
Marked for Death uses Valley of Death for the gyph, because again its an AOE build.
Fan of Knives glyph is going to be a little bit preference, but I like Hail of Knives for the large area snare.
Cluster Arrow, pick what you want, I like Maelstorm for the heal and I don't have Loaded for Bear yet.
I haven't tried Boomerang or Shuriken Cloud for gylphs on Chakrams yet, but their description makes me think they are worse. The other choices are definetly worse I would stick with Twin Chakrams.
Passives, Vengance for the Hatred (and Discpline) but mostly for the Health Globes +25 Hatred. You will make a lot of use of it in Nightmare's Act 2-4, and Hell/Inferno.
Cull the Weak is self explanatory, but I'll explain a little anyway, you are using Entangling Shot and Fan of Knives +15% damage to slowed targets is great.
Archery if you're using Bows or two-hand Crossbows I would probably use Steady Aim if I wasn't. Only reason it isn't on there is I often find myself closer then what would be 20 yards making it more situational then practical.
As a side note it works best with a Monk evasion tank using Vortex. This build will lend itself to group play more in general.
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On May 17 2012 18:22 GDR wrote:I'd say the best secondary is Chakram its potential damage output is large, and its cost makes it very efficent. I'm 48~ ish using a build like this. I can't think of a better AOE build really. + Show Spoiler +Smoke Screen is your getaway, and the glyph is very much preference. Displacement for the speed, or Lingering Fog are my two personal choices.
Marked for Death uses Valley of Death for the gyph, because again its an AOE build.
Fan of Knives glyph is going to be a little bit preference, but I like Hail of Knives for the large area snare.
Cluster Arrow, pick what you want, I like Maelstorm for the heal and I don't have Loaded for Bear yet.
I haven't tried Boomerang or Shuriken Cloud for gylphs on Chakrams yet, but their description makes me think they are worse. The other choices are definetly worse I would stick with Twin Chakrams.
Passives, Vengance for the Hatred (and Discpline) but mostly for the Health Globes +25 Hatred. You will make a lot of use of it in Nightmare's Act 2-4, and Hell/Inferno.
Cull the Weak is self explanatory, but I'll explain a little anyway, you are using Entangling Shot and Fan of Knives +15% damage to slowed targets is great.
Archery if you're using Bows or two-hand Crossbows I would probably use Steady Aim if I wasn't. Only reason it isn't on there is I often find myself closer then what would be 20 yards making it more situational then practical. As a side note it works best with a Monk evasion tank using Vortex. This build will lend itself to group play more in general.
archery is amazing with 1hs and crit dmg gems. i use sharpshooter/archery/steady aim 90% of the time.
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So another question for you folks. What hotkeys have you changed and what are they?
Me personally, I moved my potions to spacebar. My spells on the "action bar" go ~ 1 2 Q. I did all of this because my thumb uses shift to stand still so when I'm running, I can use a potion quickly. My fingers just fit my new "action bar" hotkeys better. I'm interested in everyone elses set up. oh and
~ = Marked for death
1 = Caltrops
2 = Rain of Vengeance
Q = Smokescreen
Its nice :D
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On May 17 2012 11:58 vanTuni wrote:I've checked some of the builds here and a lot of them have flaws. This is stuff u learn from experience. For example: All the "get hatred back through prep" does not work because of the 45 sec (!) cd on prep. Everything that includes the "ultimate" Rain of Vengance is crap because that does like NO dmg/hatred compared to multishot and has a 30 sec (!) cd (unless u need the Stun on very high lvl play). My build for leveling in groups:I'm not really high yet. But at lvl 45 I use the following for leveling in groups: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WRdjkQ!aeb!bZZZbaThe mobility of Vault it super important as soon as you hit Nightmare imo. Only alternative is Smokescreen but thats mostly inferior if you ask me. Jumping in and out of danger, using the stun of the rune to save people, jumping for health globes is super good. Multishot with the reduced cost is by far the best dmg/hatred spell you have so use it. Bola is the best hate-gainer imho. I prefer the Acid rune. When you hit 42, the hungering with devour rune is a viable choice though. The turret is a way to spend your discipline for DMG and with the chain is actually deals decent dmg if used correctly. Alternatively you can use the hate-pet. There is almost NO kiting in this build. Since you wont kite effectively in groups 95% of the time. But to be able to do some, I chose Elemental with Ice as the single-target hate dump. Also, I dont see why people want to use the contagion rune on mark of death past lvl 39. Why hope for spreading the effect if you can have a HUGE aoe right away (valley of death). Comments welcome! Especially on how group play evolves in hell and beyond. PS: Oh .. I use dual-wield OFC
This is terrible advice, twin chakram is way better than multishot in dmg/hatred, in fact it's almost 3x more AND has about twice the range.
Why Bola shot when you have multishot or chakram? Stick with hungering arrow.
Turret is terrible dmg.
Also, people are underestimating Bat Campanion, including me when I first read the description, but it is AMAZING. I can literally spam chakram nonstop in groups with the vengeance passive with the bat. Another passive that's amazing is steady aim, it's basically 20% more damage.
I've been running this as my all-purpose build, you can switch caltrops with vault or smoke screen.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aeYZgT!Yeb!YaZaYZ
and on bosses I switch to this
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#adjZgT!Yeb!YZYaYZ
Basically what you do is Mark of Death the boss then all you do is hold down your keys for hungering arrow and impale since you'll be getting a huge steady stream of hatred from attacks/bat. The bosses will be stunned half of the time and if it's a boss with a long cast time like Diablo, he literally won't get a spell such as the red lightning off at all. You also interrupt the bone prison cast as well so your party won't have to move much at all. Shadow power is amazing for bosses as there are unavoidable damages and also makes you able to tank your own shadow clone in Diablo making it much easier.
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currently using this:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#cWYdQg!bYe!bZabaZ
bola shot for stunlocking bosses, works way too good... + Show Spoiler +diablo got stunned like 90% of the time.
the cheap multishot for rapidly killing all low hp mobs
rapid fire for bosses rocks specially with that rune (though it costs lot more hatred)
playing solo hardcore lvl 34 atm, sometimes i switch in the invisible thing though... and vs bosses i go for the discipline regain thing instead of multishot.
once i get a decent rune for rain of vengenance i might switch back to elemental arrow for AoE. i don't like twin chakra, i feel elemental arrow with lighning ball is far superior and can be spammed as well.
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On May 17 2012 14:39 theang123 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 13:55 Sandster wrote:On May 17 2012 11:55 theang123 wrote:
how do u guys actually get that much dps?
im 29 level in act4 with only 2k hp and 200 dps
using a 39damage bow with quiver Before fighting Belial, I was level 25 with 170 dps and 2300 hp. I killed Diablo at level 32 with 700 dps but 1300 hp (lol). Then I bought a rare bow from the AH for 4k and that took me to 900+. Buying a weapon for cheap is not a bad idea. As the guy said before me, you want +dmg on all your rings/amulets, and ideally fight a good bow + quiver for the 15% archery passive. Socket is just gravy (with best ruby you can get, which is flawless in normal). On all other gear, Dex > Vit (I happened to have none, which is a bad idea) > exp/MF. Every other stat is secondary. The damage formula seems to be (weapon damage + bonus damage) * (attack speed) * (dexterity/100 + 1) * (1+crit%). This is why the damage from rings/amulets and ruby in weapon are so important - you get the increased attack speed AND dex modifier on top. Also, grouping is hugely beneficial to loot. Even with only 2 people I got some nifty Dex gear from the guy I was playing with. Thanks man, im playing solo cant find ppl joining me in public games. My amulet all is using dex item, just sold a few + 2-4 damage rings coz i tot they are useless >.< btw will dh be hard soloing in nightmare? currently i have a templar with 4k+ hp following me
I haven't been able to play much after beating the game on normal, so I can't say definitively, but as long as you have vault/smokescreen and Templar you can clear pretty effectively. You will need to kite on harder difficulties though, esp hell and inferno.
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On May 17 2012 11:58 vanTuni wrote:
I've checked some of the builds here and a lot of them have flaws. This is stuff u learn from experience. For example: All the "get hatred back through prep" does not work because of the 45 sec (!) cd on prep. Everything that includes the "ultimate" Rain of Vengance is crap because that does like NO dmg/hatred compared to multishot and has a 30 sec (!) cd (unless u need the Stun on very high lvl play).
Uh, Rain of Vengeance costs 0 hatred so I'm not sure how it's worse dmg/hatred than ANYTHING else? It's a really good bar filler spell since you can spend all of your resources with 3 slots so companion + RoV + a hatred generator fit well for the last 3.
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On May 17 2012 22:43 Shifft wrote:Uh, Rain of Vengeance costs 0 hatred so I'm not sure how it's worse dmg/hatred than ANYTHING else? It's a really good bar filler spell since you can spend all of your resources with 3 slots so companion + RoV + a hatred generator fit well for the last 3.
Its 70%wd every 30 seconds, even considering it doesnt cost a thing, its still inferior to any other attack, including the generators.
Also, after maybe early NM, theres really no such thing as bar filler, as you have fewer slots than skills youd like to use.
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On May 17 2012 23:12 nV[MB] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 22:43 Shifft wrote:Uh, Rain of Vengeance costs 0 hatred so I'm not sure how it's worse dmg/hatred than ANYTHING else? It's a really good bar filler spell since you can spend all of your resources with 3 slots so companion + RoV + a hatred generator fit well for the last 3. Its 70%wd every 30 seconds, even considering it doesnt cost a thing, its still inferior to any other attack, including the generators. Also, after maybe early NM, theres really no such thing as bar filler, as you have fewer slots than skills youd like to use.
lol, that happens earlier imo ^^
would like to add for example sentry and the summon (bat, spider, whatever else) but i don't have space for it ^_^
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On May 17 2012 23:12 nV[MB] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 22:43 Shifft wrote:Uh, Rain of Vengeance costs 0 hatred so I'm not sure how it's worse dmg/hatred than ANYTHING else? It's a really good bar filler spell since you can spend all of your resources with 3 slots so companion + RoV + a hatred generator fit well for the last 3. Its 70%wd every 30 seconds, even considering it doesnt cost a thing, its still inferior to any other attack, including the generators. Also, after maybe early NM, theres really no such thing as bar filler, as you have fewer slots than skills youd like to use.
70%wd per arrow that hits, not total. You can turn it on and run around while it solos packs of regular mobs in early nightmare. It's up about every second pull for me and I definitely notice the pulls that I have it for dying much faster.
Also I don't get how you don't have room on your bars, does your hatred generation just go up so much later on that spamming Elemental Arrow or Chakram gains hatred, so you need a bigger dump? At the point where I am (mid nightmare) it seems like having more than one skill that uses hatred is a waste since I can already keep it at 0. DH has a very limited number of skills that don't consume hatred and discipline seems to usually be reserved for smoke screen and (if solo) caltrops. I'm basically having to choose 2 of Prep, Companion, Marked for Death and Rain of Vengeance, and so far I'm preferring Companion and Rain of Vengeance.
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Anyone do Diablo solo on NM mode yet? Gave it a maybe 10 shots after some beers last night so I may have just been derping and trying to rush it to go to sleep, but it was the first trouble I've had with a boss outside of getting noe shot by the charge adds on the previous boss. Not having the templar to smoke screen the boss onto is annoying.
This is my first time reading about other people's builds, though, and I hadn't considered bola/stun rune for just stunlocking bosses. I've been using Impale for stuns while soloing but Bola may make more sense. Although I'm not sure what the stun reduction is on NM vs normal.
I'll probably just do it with a group but i want to be able to solo everything where possible.
(EDIT): lv51, this is what i've been running, primarily: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aZYXVe!bec!ZaYaYa
I just smoke screen/chakram AoE clear pretty much everything and finish stuff off with hungering/impales (different rune for hungering tho when not on bosses)
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bola stun can almost stunlock him, dunno if stun is nerfed in nightmare, though.
btw what's about your passives guys? i have steady aim, archery and vengeance for solo play. was thinknig about swapping out vengeance for the slow dmg thing, but i feel like vengeance is a ton of help.
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On May 18 2012 01:03 HolydaKing wrote:
bola stun can almost stunlock him, dunno if stun is nerfed in nightmare, though.
btw what's about your passives guys? i have steady aim, archery and vengeance for solo play. was thinknig about swapping out vengeance for the slow dmg thing, but i feel like vengeance is a ton of help.
vengeance definitely helps and lets you pretty much use stuff like rapid fire infinitely.
after getting into NM and getting a good fast firing 1h crossbow i have found that multishot, when used judiciously, clears mobs faster than the twin chakrams that i and many others have been championing. especially considering it's not difficult to quickly regenerate your hatred again. in fact, i've found that i've been running out of discipline much faster than hatred, which has almost fucked me over in boss fights. maybe i should look into preparation runes for boss fights?
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On May 18 2012 03:02 zeehar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 01:03 HolydaKing wrote:
bola stun can almost stunlock him, dunno if stun is nerfed in nightmare, though.
btw what's about your passives guys? i have steady aim, archery and vengeance for solo play. was thinknig about swapping out vengeance for the slow dmg thing, but i feel like vengeance is a ton of help. vengeance definitely helps and lets you pretty much use stuff like rapid fire infinitely. after getting into NM and getting a good fast firing 1h crossbow i have found that multishot, when used judiciously, clears mobs faster than the twin chakrams that i and many others have been championing. especially considering it's not difficult to quickly regenerate your hatred again. in fact, i've found that i've been running out of discipline much faster than hatred, which has almost fucked me over in boss fights. maybe i should look into preparation runes for boss fights?
after using dual chakrams, razor chakrams, and multshot, i have to say multishot is my favorite out of the three, even though the chakrams are more hatred efficient. it's simply because of the speed of multishot. chakram's take too long to actually reach the enemies, whereas multishot is almost instantaneous.
edit: oops, left out ball lightning. ball lightning is also good, but for the same reason (being too slow moving), i like multishot better.
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Im in Act 3 of nightmare and chakrams are essentially useless. I'm playing whit my monk and it is very often where you are in a position of I need to kill this mob before it kills me. With multishot and preparation I can pump 10 multishots (with fire at will and vengence) into a mob and kill it extremely quickly, where as chakarams often get my monk ally tank killed and I get quickly swarmed by the mobs. I equipped rain of vengence as an extra dps skill as I can still attack while it goes off, but if I were to solo i'd definitely sway that out for caltrops or cloak.
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On May 18 2012 03:17 garsh0p wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 03:02 zeehar wrote:On May 18 2012 01:03 HolydaKing wrote:
bola stun can almost stunlock him, dunno if stun is nerfed in nightmare, though.
btw what's about your passives guys? i have steady aim, archery and vengeance for solo play. was thinknig about swapping out vengeance for the slow dmg thing, but i feel like vengeance is a ton of help. vengeance definitely helps and lets you pretty much use stuff like rapid fire infinitely. after getting into NM and getting a good fast firing 1h crossbow i have found that multishot, when used judiciously, clears mobs faster than the twin chakrams that i and many others have been championing. especially considering it's not difficult to quickly regenerate your hatred again. in fact, i've found that i've been running out of discipline much faster than hatred, which has almost fucked me over in boss fights. maybe i should look into preparation runes for boss fights? after using dual chakrams, razor chakrams, and multshot, i have to say multishot is my favorite out of the three, even though the chakrams are more hatred efficient. it's simply because of the speed of multishot. chakram's take too long to actually reach the enemies, whereas multishot is almost instantaneous. edit: oops, left out ball lightning. ball lightning is also good, but for the same reason (being too slow moving), i like multishot better.
Yeah, to my taste, (only in A2 NM so far though), multishot with the rune for lower cost, and elemental arrow with the fear rune are the best AOE. Mix those up with shatter shot hungering arrows, and as long as you can control space reasonably well, huge packs just die before reaching you. My panic buttons are impale/impact and vault/tumble to keep myself some room. Caltrops fleshes it out.
The advantage to this setup for me, is that it's incredibly versatile. It's not the most min-maxed DPS build by far, but everything does fair damage and has utility.
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EPT
