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On October 30 2010 02:08 lowercase wrote: Wait, I didn't see the game. Did Idra gg out or rage quit?
gg, as soon as zenios army got to his base. gg before the fight, probably fueled Zenio on lol.
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Seems like oGs as a team really dislikes IdrA. Must be awkward for the TL guys, who all seem to like him.
Zenio is awesome. As a fan of many physical sports, I love seeing when that competitive fire comes out. It doesn't have to be BM either. I just like to see the emotion of the moment. I want to see pro-gamers, not programmers.
I was pulling for Idra during the match too.
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I don't think a lot of you are understanding the meaning behind Zenio's gestures towards Idra. His point is that Idra was really condescending and didn't respect Zenio. Why wouldn't he respect Zenio? Because Idra implies that Zenio isn't good. Now Zenio beat Idra 2-0. So it is somewhat sarcastic/mocking Idra in the way that he BMs Idra. Kinda like "Look, you BM'ed and lost, look at me, I can BM too! hur hur!!". Its not that he's saying "HEY YO MAN, SUCK A DICK!". He's BM'ing in a way that is meant to show how silly Idra's BM is.
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Perhaps this is an indication to idra to stop BMing other ppl he plays ... He got humiliated and got paid for his crimes
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Sorta weird to be saying this on TL, but a lot of people here are forgetting the community element to SC ... especially in South Korea. When you BM someone on B.Net (and IdrA isn't exactly playing scrubs when he ladders) you're probably BMing someone that is a friend of a pro-gamer, practice n00b of a pro-gamer or a pro-gamer. Unlike in North America, where the community of top notch players isn't as vast or inter-related, in Korea, more of these people actually know each other on some level.
If someone disses my buddy from school or cousin or some guy I went to a ball game with and we got along, and everyone is saying that guy is a dick, that dude becomes an enemy, or at the very least a guy I view with suspiscion. Beating him becomes a communal reason for celebration.
This just goes to my bigger problem with IdrA. He clearly has the ambition to be great and he clearly puts a lot of thought into the game but, and I know this isn't the criticism most people have of him, but I'm not sure he's smart enough to be really great.
I'm not referring to his general demeanor. Despite all his echo-chamber assiduous imba whining with Artosis, I genuinely believe he calms himself down and introspects as to his play, regardless of the patch number he is on. But the imba whining and BM is indicative of a dude that would rather win now then become the best. If he was really focused on *just being the best* he'd recognize that he needs to get in with a community of really talented players, win their respect, trade ideas and strategies as equals, and use his superior passion, motivation and execution to whup some ass.
Instead BM supposedly "just proves he cares a lot". No it doesn't, it proves he doesn't care enough and isn't bright enough to figure out that BM is a negative EV proposition.
I know IdrA is our great foreign hope and has been for a long time. And I root for him like most of us on TL. But he's not what he could be. And, given that its been so many years, I don't think its rational for us to think he'll be anything more than he is now. I hope he is. I hope he takes this insult from Zenio and reflects on his person and what it means to incite this sort of emotion instead of just taking it as an insult. But, if history is any guide, personal introspection and behavorial adaption aren't his forte.
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On October 30 2010 02:22 Choirdrunk wrote: Sorta weird to be saying this on TL, but a lot of people here are forgetting the community element to SC ... especially in South Korea. When you BM someone on B.Net (and IdrA isn't exactly playing scrubs when he ladders) you're probably BMing someone that is a friend of a pro-gamer, practice n00b of a pro-gamer or a pro-gamer. Unlike in North America, where the community of top notch players isn't as vast or inter-related, in Korea, more of these people actually know each other on some level.
If someone disses my buddy from school or cousin or some guy I went to a ball game with and we got along, and everyone is saying that guy is a dick, that dude becomes an enemy, or at the very least a guy I view with suspiscion. Beating him becomes a communal reason for celebration.
This just goes to my bigger problem with IdrA. He clearly has the ambition to be great and he clearly puts a lot of thought into the game but, and I know this isn't the criticism most people have of him, but I'm not sure he's smart enough to be really great.
I'm not referring to his general demeanor. Despite all his echo-chamber assiduous imba whining with Artosis, I genuinely believe he calms himself down and introspects as to his play, regardless of the patch number he is on. But the imba whining and BM is indicative of a dude that would rather win now then become the best. If he was really focused on *just being the best* he'd recognize that he needs to get in with a community of really talented players, win their respect, trade ideas and strategies as equals, and use his superior passion, motivation and execution to whup some ass.
Instead BM supposedly "just proves he cares a lot". No it doesn't, it proves he doesn't care enough and isn't bright enough to figure out that BM is a negative EV proposition.
I know IdrA is our great foreign hope and has been for a long time. And I root for him like most of us on TL. But he's not what he could be. And, given that its been so many years, I don't think its rational for us to think he'll be anything more than he is now. I hope he is. I hope he takes this insult from Zenio and reflects on his person and what it means to incite this sort of emotion instead of just taking it as an insult. But, if history is any guide, personal introspection and behavorial adaption aren't his forte.
Wow, this is a really smart post. I like where you go with this. We've heard a lot about how players will team up and help each other a whole lot. Idra's BM puts him at a disadvantage. You gotta play the politics of the scene to be as good as possible.
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why do people care so much? oh my god, say it ain't so, he air-slapped idra from far away when he couldn't even see what zenio was doing! i'm sure idra went and cried in his room while re-evaluating his moral standards after that one.
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That title, that picture - zenio looks like a straight up baller. Got to love that BM, we need more FBH-esk players don't you think.
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I love Zenio, he reminds me of Reach but SC2. If mantoss starts SC2ing I hope him and Zenio start up a team of manly men.
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IdrA's burned too many bridges to turn it around now. The players he mocked (and in the Beta of a NEW game no-less) weren't going to stay worse than him forever and are passing him by. He has an overinflated opinion of himself, propped up by fanboys who don't know any better. His weaknesses will become bigger and bigger because he doesn't recognize them as such. He makes excuses and blames the game instead of improving. He practices inside a pampered bubble without having his strategies challenged. He's got hundreds of enablers (called TL) that are pretty much "yes" men that don't question him. He'll be trapped in this rut of his own making.
He doesn't want any help. The first step to improving is admitting that you're not that great. And he's not going to get any because he alienated just about the entire pro scene in Korea.
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LOL Idra being called out on his BM, so epic. I have become a fan of Zenio.
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lol koreans DO NOT like idra BM hahaha
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Reach? Yeah maybe. I would love if the mantoss brought some testerone to SC2.
Anyway, I like when players show a bit of emotion. At first I only thought it was Zenio being thrilled he got s-class for GSL but it seems it was more than that behind it. Either way people are being way too upset over a 1-second celebration.
More emotions to the e-scene!
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I love seeing idra lose, can't stand that nerdy little bastard
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On October 30 2010 02:33 Herculix wrote: why do people care so much?
Seriously. Maybe I dont read the sc2 forums enough but how do you guys manage to care about something so tame enough to write complex arguments for or against it? what the fuck men.
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On October 30 2010 02:48 TheAntZ wrote:Seriously. Maybe I dont read the sc2 forums enough but how do you guys manage to care about something so tame enough to write complex arguments for or against it? what the fuck men.
Ever been a fan of a sports team? It's the exact same thing except SC involves logic, game theory, math, introspection, practice, and the theoretical opportunity for a normal guy to succeed even if he isn't born 6'6 and 300 lbs or with the ability to run a 4.4 40.
Is rooting for a sports team the most productive use of a person's time? No. Is discussing whether Giselle is ruining both the Patriots and Tom Brady's hair really a mature topic? No. Is it fun? Yes.
Since you have over 4100 posts I'm actually a bit surprised to hear anti-obsession talk coming from you. "Oh, but dudes, I talk about Starcraft stuff that matters!!!" ... yeah, ok there tiger.
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On October 30 2010 02:54 Choirdrunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 02:48 TheAntZ wrote:On October 30 2010 02:33 Herculix wrote: why do people care so much? Seriously. Maybe I dont read the sc2 forums enough but how do you guys manage to care about something so tame enough to write complex arguments for or against it? what the fuck men. Ever been a fan of a sports team? It's the exact same thing except SC involves logic, game theory, math, introspection, practice, and the theoretical opportunity for a normal guy to succeed even if he isn't born 6'6 and 300 lbs or with the ability to run a 4.4 40. Is rooting for a sports team the most productive use of a person's time? No. Is discussing whether Giselle is ruining both the Patriots and Tom Brady's hair really a mature topic? No. Is it fun? Yes. Since you have over 4100 posts I'm actually a bit surprised to hear anti-obsession talk coming from you. "Oh, but dudes, I talk about Starcraft stuff that matters!!!" ... yeah, ok there tiger.
But i do. i post regularly in the nada's body thread.
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Zergs are gonna have to be scrapy to win these high level ZvZ's as it is the most unexplored matchup at this level of play. Would have loved to see Idra take on Fruitdealer but in the end upsets are what keep things fresh.
The Celebration can hardly be called BM. Showing some pride of your win, especially being the underdog in a mirror is appropriate. It was more of a "get some bitch" than a taunt, and lets face it if these guys meet again its ON-LIKE-DONKEY-KONG! WP Zenio
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Zenio with the ghost back hand... what a flashy baller.
On October 30 2010 02:58 Zyban wrote: ...lets face it if these guys meet again its ON-LIKE-DONKEY-KONG! WP Zenio
lol
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