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Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 13

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
1732 CommentsPost a Reply
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Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 17:01:12
October 07 2010 17:00 GMT
#241
i cry about zerg as much as the next guy but i really think this is too much. Fungal on blink stalkers is a good change though.
Better than Pokebunny
Slipspace
Profile Joined May 2010
United States381 Posts
October 07 2010 17:00 GMT
#242
the roach range increase AND the factory requirement for faster reapers

they REALLY don't like this reaper play
shindigs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4795 Posts
October 07 2010 17:01 GMT
#243
On October 08 2010 01:53 Chronicle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 01:50 MrBitter wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:46 Chronicle wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:39 Pekkz wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:29 Chronicle wrote:
Ok so increasing roach range helps them vs reapers fair enough but why not nerf the reaper range instead? Why do roaches need the extra range, they are good as they are. Now now only are Protoss going to be kited by them all day long it will mean that they will be able to hit cannons 1 space away from Protoss walls, which will make Mass roach really really hard to stop. As for the terran barracks requiring a depo it is pretty silly. Would rather that the Nexus gave off a power field so Protoss has the option of skipping pylons and are not instantly screwed the second their first is sniped.

Overall at least blizzard is "trying" this time, but they still are not hitting the mark.


You cant cannon zerg inn and fast expo anymore? Sad day for you. Zerg had no good options to be agressive cus everyone just walled off. Now we can harass a player who gets too greedy, and thats gonna be sweet.

And no, roaches where not good as they are. They where OK in many situations, but protoss and terran could basicly make any composition and they worked fine against roaches. Now you may actually have to get more then a couple immortals to counter them, and thats gonna be legendary.


Learn 2 Read - No-one mentioned about cannoning in the Zerg. The topic is cannoning OUT the Zerg, something that will no longer be possible if the roachs can not only tank the cannons but hit them behind walls. And if you think for 1 moment that roaches are a bad unit atm then you are one of the few.

Giving Protoss no defensive options vs Fast roaches will leave Protoss in the same boat Zerg are in now vs Fast reaper - IE Totally fucked.


No way. Fast roaches after the patch will die to the same thing that kills them now: Stalkers and force field.


Thats what Slow roachs die to. Fast roachs come out and arrive before enough stalker/sentry exist to stop them. Roachs with more range will be able to kite Zealots same as marines, which will be bullshit.


Roaches could ALWAYS kite Zealots if you took a bit of effort to control them. I doubt the roach range will be any longer than a stalkers anyway (will probably still be less) so getting the stalker out is still critical in holding off early roach aggression.

Makes early roach aggression a lot more better on the Zerg's part.

As everyone else does, I don't agree with depot before barracks. Longer roach range is enough to stop an early reaper aggression. Even if T still went 5 rax, the lack of speed and +range roach on creep will have an easier time defending.
Photographer@shindags || twitch.tv/shindigs
gotterdammerung
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria17 Posts
October 07 2010 17:01 GMT
#244
just what i suspected, lots of players crying about terran op, yet protoss has a 60% winrate against terran in some leagues.

and to fix it, they are going to nerf reaper and maruader cheese? wow, now we will never be able to beat the toss if we cant cheese them. trying to go late game against toss is like banging your head against a wall..

I dont agree with depot before rax blizz, please dont implement this change. the only way we can beat toss is early cheese, and yet you all recognize that TvP is imbalanced in P's favor, yet you want to take away our one option to beat toss? i dont get it, i really dont
glhf.tv
eloist
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1017 Posts
October 07 2010 17:01 GMT
#245
I am kind of missing the part where the win percentages and changes make sense on the same page.
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
October 07 2010 17:01 GMT
#246
On October 08 2010 01:58 Defeat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 01:28 Djeez wrote:
Stop saying the reapers will now be useless. It's true somewhat that they won't be the massive threat they were early game, but you can still use them mid-late game. For some reason nobody can conceive of making reapers mid-late game... but I know qxc does. When your opponent has 3 bases, maybe even 4 with zerg, and his units aren't spread out reapers can actually be really effective. Arguably more effective than early game, when you only have 1 base to defend.

Agreed, mid-late game reapers are like mini dropships. They can force defenses and they also have the grenades. For some reason people think they can only early harass with them :s


have you even played terran? Reapers take A LONG time to build and take LOTS of gas. So you make 8 reapers? you're down 4 dropships/3 ghosts/whatever, you're also down ~12 marauders you could've made, then the P pulls his probes and warps in two stalkers and kills all your reapers, or you accidently run your reaper pack into the back of his army and it instantly dies. Reapers are just too fragile and useless to make mid/late game and set you back too far
Writer
VenerableSpace
Profile Joined May 2010
United States463 Posts
October 07 2010 17:01 GMT
#247
The way they word the patch scares me for the future of the game. Example "As you can see there are some issues with Protoss vs. Terran in many of the leagues."

Why should it be 50% for ALL skill levels, that is near impossible to do. They should focus on diamond and pro level rather then gold and platinum. They will break things at higher levels trying to fix it for silver/gold/plat players.
Raiznhell
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada786 Posts
October 07 2010 17:01 GMT
#248
Depot required before barracks is retarded. especially with scv health being 45. I literally never cheese because I'm always too scared to but now how are other cheesy terrans ever gunna proxy rax in-base early on it's kinda lame plus now in TvP protoss are gunna be sending super early probes to prevent that depot from going down.

best way to stop reapers is to get rid of them and give terran something else the unit is way too stupid. i also dont get why they arent editing banelings and ultras. both seem to just completely dominate in all modes of play. 1v1 2v2 and such.
Cake or Death?
Altsa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Finland990 Posts
October 07 2010 17:01 GMT
#249
As a zerg, I love these changes but I feel terran should still be able to build rax before depot. Reapers concerned, roach range increase would be enough to hold them back.
AoD
Lumb
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom78 Posts
October 07 2010 17:01 GMT
#250
On October 08 2010 01:59 Demarini wrote:
listen to all this terran qq. seriously? what are reapers good for besides some time of early cheese? now they actually have to think when they play zerg.


Actually there isn't much Terran QQ in this thread. Just some thoughtful discussion regarding the fact that Reapers might become obsolete after this patch. Why have a unit in the game that NOBODY uses?
greycubed
Profile Joined May 2010
United States615 Posts
October 07 2010 17:02 GMT
#251
It's so INCREDIBLY misleading to post Diamond v Diamond winrates. People are placed into leagues BASED on their winrates so they tell you NOTHING.

Imagine having a 4th race that was super weak- let's call them "Gerg." Gerg is so bad that only one gerg player could manage a 50% winrate against diamond players. So he's the only one promoted into diamond.

Would people really point at him as evidence Gerg is balanced? I mean Diamond Gerg players have a 50% winrate. We should just wipe our hands and be done.

Pretty dick move by blizzard to show off such misleading stats imo.
http://i.imgur.com/N3ujB.png
gillon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden1578 Posts
October 07 2010 17:02 GMT
#252
On October 08 2010 01:21 GTR wrote:
Show nested quote +
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.


This is stupid.


I agree, this is GAMEBREAKINGLY stupid. Terrans CANNOT cheese any longer. There is no longer a threat of cheese from this one race and that is huge. In a really bad fucking way.
www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열
Overswarm
Profile Joined August 2010
United States62 Posts
October 07 2010 17:02 GMT
#253
I AM SO HAPPY.

I played Toss for the first time the other day and one a PvZ pretty easily by just fast expoing and massing warpgates with +1 to weapons. It felt ridiculous how powerful warping units in was, and how little I had to keep replenishing my supply. Not losing units? What?

But the fact they're planning on buffing zerg?

I can see so many changes now.


Roaches in ZvZ can be a possibility now on all maps, not just a select few.

In ZvT, Z can go roaches to harass and defend and can tech to burrow/tunneling claws to harass Terran units and force them to lose MULEs.

In ZvP, early Roach builds allow you to leave the base because you won't get kited all day. It's going to be starting off with roaches, expanding, then making hydras to support your roaches vs. the immortals or making banelings to take out extra zealots + lings for immortals.


If Roaches become a viable unit to have all game, Z will have OPTIONS.

I'm so happy.


Roaches will be similar to Stalkers for protoss in the sense that they'll be useful units even after the initial few.
Squirrel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1102 Posts
October 07 2010 17:03 GMT
#254
On October 08 2010 01:57 Gman1216 wrote:
its not like a zerg just won the GSL by the way


Oh man, the one Zerg from the round of 8 up managed to beat Terrans who played badly.

MUST mean Zerg is balanced!
PulseSUI
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland305 Posts
October 07 2010 17:03 GMT
#255
i had a good laught when i realized that Blizzard does not understand there own matchmaking system and trys to prove a point posting win rates of laddergames.

this might actualy break the game if the other changes are just as horrible.
mucker
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1120 Posts
October 07 2010 17:03 GMT
#256
As a zerg I think this is too many changes. The roach range alone is huge and will change the game quite a bit. I'd rather they just implement that and let us see how it plays out.

The fungal/blink... not sure I like this. I always considered the real issue in ZvP to be hydra speed off creep. This change feels too arbitrary.

Barracks requires supply is dogshit. It reduces race differences and restricts gameplay too much. I think upping the tech lab cost and build time would be better.

Nitro isn't the upgrade that needs to be pushed up the tech tree, concussive shells is.
It's supposed to be automatic but actually you have to press this button.
kmkkmk
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany418 Posts
October 07 2010 17:03 GMT
#257
On October 08 2010 01:59 57 Corvette wrote:
Protoss (even though they do, not technically) do not require a pylon to build a gateway.


fail blog candidate?
Maero
Profile Joined December 2007
349 Posts
October 07 2010 17:03 GMT
#258
As a zerg player, I feel like these changes might actually make us a bit too good :/

More specifically, I like the fungal growth change, since that is pretty intuitive and the way it should have been all along. +range on the roach is probably unnecessary, they have a job right now and they do it fairly well. More building hp is okay, but I would be fine with it being something really minor like +50 to spines/spores.

The terran changes, though, I really don't agree with at all. Being able to make a quick rax and pump out some tier 1 units helps to keep the other races honest - I know the only thing stopping me from being super greedy with my drones early on is knowing that those reapers might be coming faster than I would be ready for. Not being able to get fast nitro packs early is going to make reapers really difficult to justify spending money on, as well.

For the protoss changes, I've always been a supporter of some sort of minor nerf to chronoboost - a 10 second cooldown, for instance? Enough so you aren't completely screwed when you forget, but you lose a little bit of efficiency. It may help stop the more mediocre protoss players from being able to execute their 4 gates as effectively by not allowing them to boost all their production structures at once.

Just my thoughts, though; I'm eager to see what happens if these changes go through in an actual game setting, rather than just theory.

(TL;DR version: fungal growth yes, roach range mehhh, building hp shrug, terran changes )
DoMo.
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia20 Posts
October 07 2010 17:03 GMT
#259
[QUOTE]On October 08 2010 01:55 darmousseh wrote:
Imagine if roaches were still just 1 supply !?!?!?!?!


Like others have said... 4range on roach = securing a natural for toss is going to be stupidly hard, and 1food again for a 75gold, 25gas unit that tanks well? yeah uh no =/

Personally, i think a hydra speed buff is needed~upgradeable or not is for people to speculate

Reapers are already not that big of a deal anymore, lol fuck 2v2, focus on 1v1- -
GameTime
Profile Joined May 2010
United States222 Posts
October 07 2010 17:03 GMT
#260
I'm a protoss player and I think the Barracks requiring a Supply Depot is retarded.
Only the winner deserves to win.
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