From a dedicated zerg player here are my thoughts:

Roach range upgrade is good but dont go to far or else i'll stop using hydra's at all and find something else for A/A.

Terran nerfs are ridiculious. The last nerf fixed reapers just fine, leave it that way. Mules need a nerf much more than any of this. Honestly we simply never see reapers now, lets see do I get ghosts or reapers in mid game?

Callanish

249 Posts

October 11 2010 18:35 GMT

#1722

This will definitely make the 5 rax reaper build impossible with increased roach range and the requirement of the factory to get the speed upgrade. Reapers won't be able to micro against roaches anymore, and I wonder if the speed upgrade will ever be used...

ltortoise

633 Posts

October 11 2010 21:16 GMT

#1723

On October 11 2010 13:17 Jira wrote:

Show nested quote +

You cut 5 SCV's but get Mules faster/sooner. 1 Mule is, afair, worth about 3 or 4 SCV's, so the economic hit to a terran player isn't nearly as high as it is to a toss or zerg player when currently going for some cheese at 7-10 supply

You absolutely do not get MULE's "faster/sooner" when you cheese.

This is a myth. You get them at the same time, you just cut SCV's during the time you are working towards an orbital.

Go test it out. Seriously. If you think you get MULE's faster when you cheese, seriously just go test it out.

Compare a cheese build to a 12 rax, 15 orbital build and see how your income is at 4 - 5 minutes.

lentan

4 Posts

October 11 2010 21:49 GMT

#1724

It's ok without reapers.. terran has so many other units already, and don't hellions just do the job better? Now there's less reason to get them...

nimbus99

Canada194 Posts

October 11 2010 21:57 GMT

#1725

Depot before rax is taking out terran early game cheese... only thing left is proxy hellions and banshees

quasit

Sweden49 Posts

October 11 2010 23:04 GMT

#1726

On October 08 2010 03:01 Malminos wrote:Blizzard obviously has tested the new supply depot-barracks thing a ton. I'm sure the first thing they tested was it VS a 6pool. I'm sure it'll be fine.

It should be obvious by now that Blizzard doesn't do any testing at all, if you look at all the bugs that are found out minutes after the patches go live. Blizzard seems to just be theorycrafting and then ask their programmers to make the changes.

TheOGBlitzKrieg

United States346 Posts

October 11 2010 23:12 GMT

#1727

does anyone else see the roach range as a complete killer to reaper AND hellion openings? What this patch does, is it forces terran to open 10 SD 12 Raxx EVERY game. Reapers will NEVER be used... whats the point of reapers in 1v1 after this goes live? might as well just remove it from the game imo... you may just see the one reaper scout and thats about it. the FORCED 10 SD 12 Raxx is going to make Protoss proxy gate opennings and proxy cannon opennings EXTREMELY difficult to deal with... as any smart T player would instantly throw down a raxx the moment they see a proxy gate... (sometimes this is before the SD) the roach range will make for more stale gameplay... no more epic reaper micro off creep or hellion micro off creep vs roaches... rewarding slower players who do not kmnow how to spread creep via tumors properly and micro roaches properly... it's just rediculous all of it imo

Krequiem

Mexico3 Posts

October 12 2010 00:54 GMT

#1728

i think they should give a little more time to Zerg before they make that many buffs, i think Zerg are gaining popularity and they are still improving a lot. but I think they do deserve those buffs tho, it's just i wouldn't exagerate with them, i also believe, they are giving focus to the wrong terran units, or may be not, but those nerfs are just too obvious, they could just delay repaer a little more, or like others said Make the repear require both a tech lab and an engineering bay, but no, they are almost cutting the unit off, that is just wrong, what i think, is that they could nerf the center of those overwhelming terran drops, because of all, i think marauders are the center of terran OPness, that Bio ball can almost outcost any counter composition, by spamming stim, making everyone slow, and healing in mad mode with just a little bit of micro, also marauders can kill an expansion just to fast, you need a very good reaction time and micro if you want to save it, so i think reapers are not as much as a problem as marauder power. terran doesn't seem that overpowered in those charts, nonetheless those 7 terran on NA top 10, tell me otherwise... just saying

GagnarTheUnruly

United States655 Posts

October 12 2010 02:40 GMT

#1729

I'll add my 2c to this thread although what I'm going to say has probably been said before 85 pages in...

I'm not a fan of how blizzard is handling the early game here. They're going about it all wrong, fixing the symptoms and not the problem.

Symptom: Rushes are too strong
Problem: Starting locations are too close together

We don't need forced BO changes, slow zealots, or whatever they are going to do to zerg when they realize that 6 pools are too strong against protoss now, we need BIGGER, BETTER MAPS.

Blizzard, leave Terran BO alone, put zealot build time back to normal, and quit buffing zerg. With big macro maps zerg is going to be super strong anyways, you'll get big army battles even more quickly, BO losses will become less common, and new players aren't going to be mired in rushes and 2 base turtlers.

Starcraft needs to be free... to expand... I know you've nurtured SC2 for many years now, Blizzard, but it's time to let it live it's own life the way it wants to.

Grummler

Germany743 Posts

October 12 2010 09:54 GMT

#1730

Ok, so Terran doesnt seem to be imbalanced at all in TvZ. After millions of posts how imba T is, this is pretty funny =D.

On the patch changes: I like some of them. But i dislike the depo before baracks change. Sure proxy baracks stuff was pretty strong, but this is not the correct way how to balance a game. You shouldnt remove imbalance strategies, you should make them balanced.

On the other hand, the overall balance seems to be okish so far. Of course that means, that large macro maps will be totally imbalanced, cause blizzard balances sc2 around the small, common laddermaps.

Euronyme

Sweden3804 Posts

October 12 2010 19:34 GMT

#1731

On October 08 2010 08:20 noD wrote:
I just opened the game as out of curiosity
it really is there =x
I was thinking about the suply thing being a joke or something ...

what are you talking about... this is a way future patch that probably wont be applied for over a month.. it really isn't there lol

Minzy

Australia387 Posts

October 13 2010 21:50 GMT

#1732

* The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

As a zerg, I honestly think this is a terrible idea and completely unnecessary.

The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.

2v2 Balances are full of win? imo if they just increased build time or cost abit, would of been better. Speed is a bitch, yes, but did it need to be put up that far in the tech tree... idk, maybe this will somehow encourage reapers in midgame/lategame play.

Other changes seem alright though, the roach needed to be changed, and this is a step in the right direction(imo), it will be interesting to see how this affects peoples play, wish i could actually play to test this out, fuck uni.

StormyIC

United States11 Posts

October 13 2010 22:27 GMT

#1733

I was already planning to work reapers into my mid-game anyway. Pool up 5 of them and store them away so I can send them to the mineral line while attacking the front or some other multi prong attack. I love to make people have to choose what they want to save. They dont even need the speed ug for that purpose, just hot key and click on the mini map.

I will miss 5RR though

But... since we are removing cheese is there a change in the works for cannon rushes and proxy gateways in your base? I know there are toss players in Plat and Diamond that got there by cheese alone too.

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