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On October 08 2010 01:50 Obsolescence wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:47 MrBitter wrote:On October 08 2010 01:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
WHAT. THE. FUCK?
Fuck my life, all hellion and reaper builds just died?
So this leaves what, camp like a whore for 30 minutes with planetary fortresses? Fun times. Wait. What? Hellion builds will be ineffective because apparently roaches were meant to counter them, and not just be kited by them. Of course, since the roach range boost is probably only going to be +1 (3 -> 4), the hellions will still out-range roaches by 1 I believe (2 for partial).
Just realised =/ That fucking sucks... There goes Tlo zerg raping build TvZ build.
Hurry dario! Join the SWARM!
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I predict a Psi-Storm nerf for the next patch, based on that statement. Storm is the reason why Protoss have an advantage against Terran in the late game.
Maybe something like 80 damage over 5 instead of 4 seconds (20 DPS --> 16 DPS).
Everything else would be retarded as T has already an advantage in the early game thanks to Marauders.
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Gotta love the familiar old recipe.
Limited details on a new patch released >>> TL nerfed-race QQ >>> Unit XYZ is now useless >>> X race will now win every matchup vs Y >>> etc etc
Seriously, relax people. It is possible to make intelligent comments on the impact of the changes on the game without going into mega-exaggeration mode.
For the record, do I think the cumulative effects of all these changes is a bit overkill? Absolutely. But I do think they are at least trying to fix some of the biggest issues, which is good. If they overshoot a little bit and need to come back, so be it. Good thinking on Blizzard's part IMO.
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On October 08 2010 01:28 Djeez wrote:
Stop saying the reapers will now be useless. It's true somewhat that they won't be the massive threat they were early game, but you can still use them mid-late game. For some reason nobody can conceive of making reapers mid-late game... but I know qxc does. When your opponent has 3 bases, maybe even 4 with zerg, and his units aren't spread out reapers can actually be really effective. Arguably more effective than early game, when you only have 1 base to defend.
Agreed, mid-late game reapers are like mini dropships. They can force defenses and they also have the grenades. For some reason people think they can only early harass with them :s
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On October 08 2010 01:47 edwin23 wrote:
So how does terran stop a 6pool in close positions now?
8-depot apparently 
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Hey,
does anyone know the race dependent win percentages for SC/BW? This would help me judging what accuracy has been reached before. It is hard to imagine that that the least significant digit has any importance and it could very well mean that 52% is optimal balance because the 2% are already less important then maps, current race strategies, etc.
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To be honest I think the reaper nerf is retarded. Do these ppl actually play the game? They are changing the reaper to dramatically its going to be absolutely useless now in 1v1
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Now that I think about it, the depo change is most likely for team games.
Now the 6/7pool + reaper won't be autowin vs most openings/comps
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On October 08 2010 01:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:51 DoMo. wrote:On October 08 2010 01:29 flyinfart wrote:
It would be nice if they made void ray require a fleet beacon. Proxy void ray is ridiculous, especially on maps like LT. Otherwise, I can agree with most of their changes. Though, 6pooling/other cheese is going to become way more devastating to terran. i lol'd, you bad? Proxy void ray can be completely retarded when they hide it until they have 3 and you are unable to scout him properly, or scout him incorrectly. Not unbeatable, just stupid because if you dont prepare specifically for it, you die really hard. There are prob some terran equivalents of this of course.
Void Rays suck against Terran. Getting 3 Void Rays allows you to get at least 15 Marines, and 15 Marines with Stimpack active win against 3 Void Rays- charged or uncharged.
People need to understand the Roach range change is a subtle counter to the Pylon cannon wall in that Zergs will constantly face. The pylon cannon wall in is uncounterable until Hydralisks, and puts the Zerg very, very far behind because they need the expansion due to the way Larvae management works.
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I like some of the features of this patch, but there are two things i dont agree with.
We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game.
This is going to make roach rushes even more effective against protoss earlygame, and we do not get a very good counter to roaches until T2.
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.
This is going to screw up the entire earlygame for terran, making them have to get that supply depot much earlier than needed before. Sure, it stops proxies. But on the other side, this is going to make defending against early pushes VERY hard.
Put this into perspective. Zerg does not require a overlord to make a spawning pool. Protoss (even though they do, not technically) do not require a pylon to build a gateway. There is no valid reason to this change other than stopping early rushes. Early rushes which can be nerfed in many other ways.
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listen to all this terran qq. seriously? what are reapers good for besides some time of early cheese? now they actually have to think when they play zerg.
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I'm praying they don't nerf the Protoss race because of Gold and below level percentages
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Reapers will not be used
Guess what units werent used when SC came out? Scouts, Firebats
They werent used then, 2 years later, nor are they really used now.
What is your excuse about those units? "Oh BW is still new bro, they need to figure it out stop overreacting!"
Reapers will NOT be used anymore after this, unless their damage, hp or something is severly altered or they gain some ability that is deemed usefull
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I think the roach range increase is nice. Yes, they can now hit cannons behind walls, but isn't it silly that just one cannon made it so you had to get banelings to blow up the wall? It gives zerg a lot more aggressive options vs protoss and I think it can make the match-up more dynamic.
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On October 08 2010 01:57 Gman1216 wrote:
its not like a zerg just won the GSL by the way
It's not like the Terran didn't hand it to him on a silver plate by the way.
No offense to either player, but clearly HopeTorture (yes, I know his former BW name as well) was not having his best day when it was most important to have his best day.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:47 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
WHAT. THE. FUCK?
Fuck my life, all hellion and reaper builds just died?
So this leaves what, camp like a whore for 30 minutes with planetary fortresses? Fun times. Wait. What?
Hellions are gonna have a really hard time kiting roaches with longer range -_- Hellion into expo (i.e what TLO played in GSL vs Losira) is already balancing the razors edge when it comes to surviving roach busts, so this might just kill the build entirely (I will wait and see what the exact range upgrade is of course).
On October 08 2010 01:58 Defeat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:28 Djeez wrote:
Stop saying the reapers will now be useless. It's true somewhat that they won't be the massive threat they were early game, but you can still use them mid-late game. For some reason nobody can conceive of making reapers mid-late game... but I know qxc does. When your opponent has 3 bases, maybe even 4 with zerg, and his units aren't spread out reapers can actually be really effective. Arguably more effective than early game, when you only have 1 base to defend. Agreed, mid-late game reapers are like mini dropships. They can force defenses and they also have the grenades. For some reason people think they can only early harass with them :s
Midgame reapers are kinda obsolete as by then you have dropships that are way more survivable, and dont take up 40 seconds or whatever of your barracks production time.
Reapers need some kind of midgame upgrade other than speed (lol, get a starport after factory or get speed reapers - HARD CHOICE, NOT) to be interesting.
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Too hard nerf on reapers...
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oh man lol i cant wait for this, haha. My biggest problem vs Terran is getting out of the early game ahead because of helions \ reapers, now quick roach warren and a few lings and its all sorted. hf getting ur factory before speed :D
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On October 08 2010 01:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:51 DoMo. wrote:On October 08 2010 01:29 flyinfart wrote:
It would be nice if they made void ray require a fleet beacon. Proxy void ray is ridiculous, especially on maps like LT. Otherwise, I can agree with most of their changes. Though, 6pooling/other cheese is going to become way more devastating to terran. i lol'd, you bad? Proxy void ray can be completely retarded when they hide it until they have 3 and you are unable to scout him properly, or scout him incorrectly. Not unbeatable, just stupid because if you dont prepare specifically for it, you die really hard. There are prob some terran equivalents of this of course.
Yeah the Terran equivalent is Proxy anything, but mainly cloaked Banshee or *drumroll* reapers! I do agree with VR being a black sheep unit, they are flying reapers. 1 is anoying, a bunch unscouted will fuck you over. Would you ever use them as mainstay in your army? Unlikely. They should make VR work backwards, IE Charge up by not attacking to unleash a super beam for a few moments before it dies out. Would make alot more sense.
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I wonder if the roach buff will make them more a viable opening in ZvZ.. Currently the roach opening suffers to the speedling/baneling contain. I can't wait to see how this plays out. Overall I love the proposed ideas.
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EPT
