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On January 05 2009 13:22 lgdDante wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 12:45 G5 wrote:On January 05 2009 11:06 Chill wrote:On January 05 2009 10:59 IdrA wrote:On January 05 2009 10:58 Chill wrote:
This is at D foreigner levels. Stupid people keep extrapolating it to top foreigner levels. ya there wouldnt be so many foreign z's and t's dominating if it were really imbalanced ohwaito_o Haha okay thats fair  Don't fucking tell him that. Greg I love you but you need to cut that shit out. The only reason that there are more top foreign Protoss users than Z or T is because they worked harder at it. It is simply a fluke. If LX choose Terran and practiced equally as hard with his T as he did with his P he would be the same level he is at now. It's all a fluke, don't try to tell us Protoss users that our race is easier because our race worked harder than yours. Think about how much practice White-Ra, IefNaij, NonY, Cloud, PJ, LX etc... etc... worked on there game and then think about all of the good but not top foreign Terrans and Zergs and tell me they have put in as much practice over such a long period of time and the only reason they aren't as good as the players I mentioned above is because Protoss is easier. So stupid. So an entire race of players just happen to work harder than the other 2 races?
Yea thats an extremely retarded argument
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On January 05 2009 13:26 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:22 lgdDante wrote:On January 05 2009 12:45 G5 wrote:On January 05 2009 11:06 Chill wrote:On January 05 2009 10:59 IdrA wrote:On January 05 2009 10:58 Chill wrote:
This is at D foreigner levels. Stupid people keep extrapolating it to top foreigner levels. ya there wouldnt be so many foreign z's and t's dominating if it were really imbalanced ohwaito_o Haha okay thats fair Don't fucking tell him that. Greg I love you but you need to cut that shit out. The only reason that there are more top foreign Protoss users than Z or T is because they worked harder at it. It is simply a fluke. If LX choose Terran and practiced equally as hard with his T as he did with his P he would be the same level he is at now. It's all a fluke, don't try to tell us Protoss users that our race is easier because our race worked harder than yours. Think about how much practice White-Ra, IefNaij, NonY, Cloud, PJ, LX etc... etc... worked on there game and then think about all of the good but not top foreign Terrans and Zergs and tell me they have put in as much practice over such a long period of time and the only reason they aren't as good as the players I mentioned above is because Protoss is easier. So stupid. So an entire race of players just happen to work harder than the other 2 races? Yea thats an extremely retarded argument
He is saying the top foreigners.
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On January 05 2009 13:26 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:22 lgdDante wrote:On January 05 2009 12:45 G5 wrote:On January 05 2009 11:06 Chill wrote:On January 05 2009 10:59 IdrA wrote:On January 05 2009 10:58 Chill wrote:
This is at D foreigner levels. Stupid people keep extrapolating it to top foreigner levels. ya there wouldnt be so many foreign z's and t's dominating if it were really imbalanced ohwaito_o Haha okay thats fair Don't fucking tell him that. Greg I love you but you need to cut that shit out. The only reason that there are more top foreign Protoss users than Z or T is because they worked harder at it. It is simply a fluke. If LX choose Terran and practiced equally as hard with his T as he did with his P he would be the same level he is at now. It's all a fluke, don't try to tell us Protoss users that our race is easier because our race worked harder than yours. Think about how much practice White-Ra, IefNaij, NonY, Cloud, PJ, LX etc... etc... worked on there game and then think about all of the good but not top foreign Terrans and Zergs and tell me they have put in as much practice over such a long period of time and the only reason they aren't as good as the players I mentioned above is because Protoss is easier. So stupid. So an entire race of players just happen to work harder than the other 2 races? Yea thats an extremely retarded argument
shut up its all a coincidence...-_-
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On January 05 2009 13:05 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 11:28 petzergling wrote:There is almost no zerg near the top except Jaedong (he would probably be much better had he focused on Protoss when he started). holy shit there are so many golden quotes in this thread Few points I want to throw out 1. Protoss users say PvT is hard at higher levels because they only got to higher levels doing DT rush and 1a2a3a instead of learning mechanics in the first place (salv) 2. Protoss users cry about PvZ zerg all in/cheese simply because it is impossible for a zerg to beat a protoss of equal skill at low level straight up, it is so imbalanced. 3. Join games of protoss users on ICC and switch to protoss, they will kick/leave because they cannot play a matchup that does not give them a definite advantage. I don't understand the actual post, is it the ability to get wins period or the ability to get wins from straight up 1v1? Honestly protoss is such a fucking cheese race that when a protoss plays straight up against me I consider it cheese simply because there is no way I could have expected it a few points that I wanna throw about this post that was clearly inspired by nerdrage 1. what the fuck is so imba about DT rush? if you dont scout it and you dont prepare for it you will die, just like if i dont scout your 2fac and dont prepare for it i will also die. 2. So wait what your saying here is dt rushing is imba so its gay, but its ok for zerg to cheese? Even if it is that imbalanced, suck it up princess, its not nearly as imbalanced as zvp used to be for 8 years, payback is a bitch huh? 3. In 70-80 games this season and around the same last season and a few seasons ago this has yet to happen to me. 4. if you got past D+ maybe you wouldnt get cheesed so much. But you probably never will. Meh you sound like a classic DT fanboy.
At least if you don't scout my 2fac you can hope I mismicro, or get lucky with some goon shots, or at least play and do SOMETHING. You can't do squat against DT's if you don't scout it. Nothing. Zilch.
I find it very strange when I play as protoss as a change of pace, I don't even need to scout the terran and I know at least I'll be able to play against whatever he throws at me. Hope he screws it up or I get lucky somewhere. Can't play against Dt's if you don't prepare for em. Can't get lucky against Dt's.
But boy if they get scouted, protoss is in a world of hurt. It's amazing how strong Dt's are with an element of surprise and how incredibly weak they become when scouted.
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United States10774 Posts
On January 05 2009 13:06 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 12:37 OneOther wrote:On January 05 2009 12:29 Azrael1111 wrote:On January 05 2009 12:26 mIsUZu wrote:
Here's a little insider to tvz for those terrans that thinks p is alla bout 1a2a3a.
1t1a2a3a4a
ZOMG T imbal T easiest T is for noobs
o.O Except you need more hotkeys of units and 5 lurkers will completely roll your army in 5 seconds if you don't pay attention and what happens to a protoss army if you 1a2a3a4a to spider mines? while i agree that protoss is easiest at the low levels (D-/D/D+/C-), this thread is becoming more retarded by each second. Terran has to invest far more time and actions into planting a mine field while zerg can simply burrow, so the danger of getting raped by lurkers is greater. Also by the time you react, you'll have lost way much as a terran vs lurkers than a toss vs mines.
I personally think laying mines is just as easy as burrowing...
And how can you simply assume that you will lose more vs lurkers than vs mines? it's all situational and dependent.
anyways i am getting myself out of this thread
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On January 05 2009 13:33 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:05 daz wrote:On January 05 2009 11:28 petzergling wrote:There is almost no zerg near the top except Jaedong (he would probably be much better had he focused on Protoss when he started). holy shit there are so many golden quotes in this thread Few points I want to throw out 1. Protoss users say PvT is hard at higher levels because they only got to higher levels doing DT rush and 1a2a3a instead of learning mechanics in the first place (salv) 2. Protoss users cry about PvZ zerg all in/cheese simply because it is impossible for a zerg to beat a protoss of equal skill at low level straight up, it is so imbalanced. 3. Join games of protoss users on ICC and switch to protoss, they will kick/leave because they cannot play a matchup that does not give them a definite advantage. I don't understand the actual post, is it the ability to get wins period or the ability to get wins from straight up 1v1? Honestly protoss is such a fucking cheese race that when a protoss plays straight up against me I consider it cheese simply because there is no way I could have expected it a few points that I wanna throw about this post that was clearly inspired by nerdrage 1. what the fuck is so imba about DT rush? if you dont scout it and you dont prepare for it you will die, just like if i dont scout your 2fac and dont prepare for it i will also die. 2. So wait what your saying here is dt rushing is imba so its gay, but its ok for zerg to cheese? Even if it is that imbalanced, suck it up princess, its not nearly as imbalanced as zvp used to be for 8 years, payback is a bitch huh? 3. In 70-80 games this season and around the same last season and a few seasons ago this has yet to happen to me. 4. if you got past D+ maybe you wouldnt get cheesed so much. But you probably never will. Meh you sound like a classic DT fanboy. At least if you don't scout my 2fac you can hope I mismicro, or get lucky with some goon shots, or at least play and do SOMETHING. You can't do squat against DT's if you don't scout it. Nothing. Zilch. I find it very strange when I play as protoss as a change of pace, I don't even need to scout the terran and I know at least I'll be able to play against whatever he throws at me. Hope he screws it up or I get lucky somewhere. Can't play against Dt's if you don't prepare for em. Can't get lucky against Dt's. But boy if they get scouted, protoss is in a world of hurt. It's amazing how strong Dt's are with an element of surprise and how incredibly weak they become when scouted.
i dont know what kind of garbage terrans your playing against that you dont need to scout and that mismicro 2facs
and im not ashamed to admit i AM a DT fanboy. i love those little ninjas
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It should be defined what's trying to be proven here. All decent Protoss and the very good ones seems to all agree that Protoss is easier at an early level and is alluring to newbs (build your entire base with a probe, less units to handle etc.).
Is it trying to be proven that Protoss is easier all around? Some people seem to be arguing that it's easier early level, when in fact, no Protoss are really disputing that.
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On January 05 2009 13:38 Salv wrote:
It should be defined what's trying to be proven here. All decent Protoss and the very good ones seems to all agree that Protoss is easier at an early level and is alluring to newbs (build your entire base with a probe, less units to handle etc.).
Is it trying to be proven that Protoss is easier all around? Some people seem to be arguing that it's easier early level, when in fact, no Protoss are really disputing that.
some are actually and its pretty hilarious
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On January 05 2009 13:31 YPang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:26 EleanorRIgby wrote:On January 05 2009 13:22 lgdDante wrote:On January 05 2009 12:45 G5 wrote:On January 05 2009 11:06 Chill wrote:On January 05 2009 10:59 IdrA wrote:On January 05 2009 10:58 Chill wrote:
This is at D foreigner levels. Stupid people keep extrapolating it to top foreigner levels. ya there wouldnt be so many foreign z's and t's dominating if it were really imbalanced ohwaito_o Haha okay thats fair Don't fucking tell him that. Greg I love you but you need to cut that shit out. The only reason that there are more top foreign Protoss users than Z or T is because they worked harder at it. It is simply a fluke. If LX choose Terran and practiced equally as hard with his T as he did with his P he would be the same level he is at now. It's all a fluke, don't try to tell us Protoss users that our race is easier because our race worked harder than yours. Think about how much practice White-Ra, IefNaij, NonY, Cloud, PJ, LX etc... etc... worked on there game and then think about all of the good but not top foreign Terrans and Zergs and tell me they have put in as much practice over such a long period of time and the only reason they aren't as good as the players I mentioned above is because Protoss is easier. So stupid. So an entire race of players just happen to work harder than the other 2 races? Yea thats an extremely retarded argument shut up its all a coincidence...-_-
interestingly an argument that stems from this is that P,T,Z players all put x hours training a day, the P gains the most improvement from this X hours a day and thus they stick with sc while Z and T foreigners dont see significant benefits and quit/do other shit/train less
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Personally I think Zerg is easier at the D level... you basically only have to play two matchups because everyone dodges ZvZ, and even if they don't you can occasionally get an easy build order win. Terrans suck at dealing with even the most basic/crappy muta harass, which makes the rest of the matchup easy (if you can defend a bunker rush, which happens the majority of the time).. Protosses at that level have a poor grasp about how to counter all-ins, and even if they survive, it isn't too hard to just econ really hard and roll them with ling/ultra.
If the level of skill sinks even lower, then yeah, Protoss is probably easier.
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On January 05 2009 13:38 daz wrote:
i dont know what kind of garbage terrans your playing against that you dont need to scout and that mismicro 2facs
and im not ashamed to admit i AM a DT fanboy. i love those little ninjas
My point was just unscouted 2fac is not the same as unscouted DT rush. Unscouted and unprepared DT rush is instant gg, 2fac, at least the player going 2fac has to do some sort of work....
Ha. I told myself to stay out of this thread because I knew my Terran biased would come out hardcore. Ah well it's all in good fun.
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On January 05 2009 13:34 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:06 skyglow1 wrote:On January 05 2009 12:37 OneOther wrote:On January 05 2009 12:29 Azrael1111 wrote:On January 05 2009 12:26 mIsUZu wrote:
Here's a little insider to tvz for those terrans that thinks p is alla bout 1a2a3a.
1t1a2a3a4a
ZOMG T imbal T easiest T is for noobs
o.O Except you need more hotkeys of units and 5 lurkers will completely roll your army in 5 seconds if you don't pay attention and what happens to a protoss army if you 1a2a3a4a to spider mines? while i agree that protoss is easiest at the low levels (D-/D/D+/C-), this thread is becoming more retarded by each second. Terran has to invest far more time and actions into planting a mine field while zerg can simply burrow, so the danger of getting raped by lurkers is greater. Also by the time you react, you'll have lost way much as a terran vs lurkers than a toss vs mines. I personally think laying mines is just as easy as burrowing... And how can you simply assume that you will lose more vs lurkers than vs mines? it's all situational and dependent. anyways i am getting myself out of this thread
how can laying mines be remotely the same as burrowing. all your do is press a single key to burrow.
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So with all these arguements and discussions, all I see is every race is equally hard and has its own unique diadv/adv regardless of levels..
The difference is Protoss are manly/arrogant so they thnk this game is balanced/fair (yea I do)
Terrans are bitchy and sore so they feel they need more imbal mus like tvz, thus they wine
Zergs think they are always on the losing side because in the past, tvz was imbal (is still am imo), and now the 6dragons dominate; well go watch more JD and back in the days of Savior's vods
Conclusion: At the end of the day, better players win and less players lose, no imbal or easy race so gg no re
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On January 05 2009 13:55 NoobsOfWrath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:34 OneOther wrote:On January 05 2009 13:06 skyglow1 wrote:On January 05 2009 12:37 OneOther wrote:On January 05 2009 12:29 Azrael1111 wrote:On January 05 2009 12:26 mIsUZu wrote:
Here's a little insider to tvz for those terrans that thinks p is alla bout 1a2a3a.
1t1a2a3a4a
ZOMG T imbal T easiest T is for noobs
o.O Except you need more hotkeys of units and 5 lurkers will completely roll your army in 5 seconds if you don't pay attention and what happens to a protoss army if you 1a2a3a4a to spider mines? while i agree that protoss is easiest at the low levels (D-/D/D+/C-), this thread is becoming more retarded by each second. Terran has to invest far more time and actions into planting a mine field while zerg can simply burrow, so the danger of getting raped by lurkers is greater. Also by the time you react, you'll have lost way much as a terran vs lurkers than a toss vs mines. I personally think laying mines is just as easy as burrowing... And how can you simply assume that you will lose more vs lurkers than vs mines? it's all situational and dependent. anyways i am getting myself out of this thread how can laying mines be remotely the same as burrowing. all your do is press a single key to burrow.
A single key burrows lurkers, yes, but it doesn't place them properly. Have fun killing anything when only the 2 lurkers near the front are able to fire at anything, while the other 10 are burrowed a mile away waiting for nothing to happen. Laying mines only takes 2 button presses anyway, and that second button press is to have the mines go EXACTLY where they need to be.
Your argument is like saying tanks are super awesome because it only takes 1 key press to siege them, even though they can be placed really shittily and accomplish next to nothing.
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I think the fact that makes Protoss so newbie friendly is that they style of play is the one than is more similar the newbie style of play.
The Protoss play style is the more instintive one, build your base, build units and a-move to kill the enemy. With Terran you need to manage complicated timing pushes and you cant almost never just a move into the enemy, with Zerg you need to understand larvae management, even more timings and you need good unit control to make your units effecitive.
Also, with Protoss you can follow the newbie instinct of building a few of every units and its not such a horrible mistake as with the other races.
I think that if we put two people with little or no knowledge of RTS games, teach them the absolute basics of Starcraft (build you base, get expansions, produce units, etc) but nothing especific, make them play in a balanced map with differente races, the Protoss would almost always rape the Terran and win a lot against the Zerg, how is the Terran supposed to know that he has to push and not just attack?, and the Zerg that is has to flank or will always lose the battles?
But if take those two people and teach them the basics of competitive gaming (BOs, timings, counters, etc) and make them play, things will change a lot, now Protoss has to scout really well always or will get raped really hard by Zerg tech switchs, and in PvT it always gonna need to be ahead in macro because when the armys are equal size the Terran almost always win, and the same happens if they dont engage the Terran ball the right way.
So yes, Protoss has the easiest and most attractive play style for newbies, but as soon as the level rises just a little, the difference dissapears.
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On January 05 2009 13:47 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:38 daz wrote:
i dont know what kind of garbage terrans your playing against that you dont need to scout and that mismicro 2facs
and im not ashamed to admit i AM a DT fanboy. i love those little ninjas My point was just unscouted 2fac is not the same as unscouted DT rush. Unscouted and unprepared DT rush is instant gg, 2fac, at least the player going 2fac has to do some sort of work.... Ha. I told myself to stay out of this thread because I knew my Terran biased would come out hardcore. Ah well it's all in good fun.
thats really only semi true, in the sense that yes unscouted and unprepared dt rush is instant gg, but its really fucking easy to scout an early dt rush and therefore you have to be pretty dumb to be completely unprepared, at least enough so to hold your main even if you have to retreat from your nat. Also it is true that terran does still have to do some work to win with a 2fac, its not very much work at all if the p was completely unprepared and if your micro is at least at a C- level, which is about the same situation as a DT rush, the differences being that DT rush doesnt even require C- level micro to execute, but is easier to scout then a 2fac, which sort of balances it out
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On January 05 2009 13:26 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:22 lgdDante wrote:On January 05 2009 12:45 G5 wrote:On January 05 2009 11:06 Chill wrote:On January 05 2009 10:59 IdrA wrote:On January 05 2009 10:58 Chill wrote:
This is at D foreigner levels. Stupid people keep extrapolating it to top foreigner levels. ya there wouldnt be so many foreign z's and t's dominating if it were really imbalanced ohwaito_o Haha okay thats fair Don't fucking tell him that. Greg I love you but you need to cut that shit out. The only reason that there are more top foreign Protoss users than Z or T is because they worked harder at it. It is simply a fluke. If LX choose Terran and practiced equally as hard with his T as he did with his P he would be the same level he is at now. It's all a fluke, don't try to tell us Protoss users that our race is easier because our race worked harder than yours. Think about how much practice White-Ra, IefNaij, NonY, Cloud, PJ, LX etc... etc... worked on there game and then think about all of the good but not top foreign Terrans and Zergs and tell me they have put in as much practice over such a long period of time and the only reason they aren't as good as the players I mentioned above is because Protoss is easier. So stupid. So an entire race of players just happen to work harder than the other 2 races? Yea thats an extremely retarded argument
If you think top 30 foreigners or top 30 period should be 10 Protoss, 10 Zerg, 10 Terran and take into absolutely NO consideration for the actual person playing the game, you are as ignorant as they come.
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United States10774 Posts
On January 05 2009 13:55 NoobsOfWrath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:34 OneOther wrote:On January 05 2009 13:06 skyglow1 wrote:On January 05 2009 12:37 OneOther wrote:On January 05 2009 12:29 Azrael1111 wrote:On January 05 2009 12:26 mIsUZu wrote:
Here's a little insider to tvz for those terrans that thinks p is alla bout 1a2a3a.
1t1a2a3a4a
ZOMG T imbal T easiest T is for noobs
o.O Except you need more hotkeys of units and 5 lurkers will completely roll your army in 5 seconds if you don't pay attention and what happens to a protoss army if you 1a2a3a4a to spider mines? while i agree that protoss is easiest at the low levels (D-/D/D+/C-), this thread is becoming more retarded by each second. Terran has to invest far more time and actions into planting a mine field while zerg can simply burrow, so the danger of getting raped by lurkers is greater. Also by the time you react, you'll have lost way much as a terran vs lurkers than a toss vs mines. I personally think laying mines is just as easy as burrowing... And how can you simply assume that you will lose more vs lurkers than vs mines? it's all situational and dependent. anyways i am getting myself out of this thread how can laying mines be remotely the same as burrowing. all your do is press a single key to burrow.
laying mines is harder because you have to click once more? LOL
edit: also what NrG.ZaM said
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On January 05 2009 14:08 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 13:47 LuckyFool wrote:On January 05 2009 13:38 daz wrote:
i dont know what kind of garbage terrans your playing against that you dont need to scout and that mismicro 2facs
and im not ashamed to admit i AM a DT fanboy. i love those little ninjas My point was just unscouted 2fac is not the same as unscouted DT rush. Unscouted and unprepared DT rush is instant gg, 2fac, at least the player going 2fac has to do some sort of work.... Ha. I told myself to stay out of this thread because I knew my Terran biased would come out hardcore. Ah well it's all in good fun. thats really only semi true, in the sense that yes unscouted and unprepared dt rush is instant gg, but its really fucking easy to scout an early dt rush and therefore you have to be pretty dumb to be completely unprepared, at least enough so to hold your main even if you have to retreat from your nat. Also it is true that terran does still have to do some work to win with a 2fac, its not very much work at all if the p was completely unprepared and if your micro is at least at a C- level, which is about the same situation as a DT rush, the differences being that DT rush doesnt even require C- level micro to execute, but is easier to scout then a 2fac, which sort of balances it out i totally agree. This is why we're still playing this game 10 years later isn't it?
I love how there's like 3 separate arguments going on right now. This thread is getting good.
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