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On January 05 2009 20:57 AnOth3rDAy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 20:50 ExSoldier wrote:
Protoss not the most unsuccessful race? here are the titles
osl:
7 zerg
7 protoss(no protoss won 2 titles in osl except garimto....)
11 terran
msl:
6 zerg
4 protoss(only nalra and bisu has msl titles...)
9 terran
wcg:
3 zerg
2 protoss(stork and foru has this title with foru winning with pure luck[how successful was foru...])
4 terran
and only recently protoss been dominating. That is why they called it golden age of protoss? I have said it before protoss requires great game sense and adapt to the opponent. As you can see no protoss won 2 titles in any tournaments except bisu and garimto. And since bisu has great sense and multitasking skills. it is safe to say protoss is the hardest in a higher level of play because bisu is the only successful protoss. that being said protoss is the most unsuccesssful race we're not talking about the koreans. Atleast I am not.
look at the title it says why is protoss easy. its talking about the race in general. its illogical to argue saying protoss is the easiest when your not considering the korean progaming scene when e sports was originated from korea
what your saying is like saying nony is the best player in the world without considering all other players in korea.... now plz if you going to argue give me logical arguement
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On January 05 2009 20:59 ExSoldier wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 20:57 AnOth3rDAy wrote:On January 05 2009 20:50 ExSoldier wrote:
Protoss not the most unsuccessful race? here are the titles
osl:
7 zerg
7 protoss(no protoss won 2 titles in osl except garimto....)
11 terran
msl:
6 zerg
4 protoss(only nalra and bisu has msl titles...)
9 terran
wcg:
3 zerg
2 protoss(stork and foru has this title with foru winning with pure luck[how successful was foru...])
4 terran
and only recently protoss been dominating. That is why they called it golden age of protoss? I have said it before protoss requires great game sense and adapt to the opponent. As you can see no protoss won 2 titles in any tournaments except bisu and garimto. And since bisu has great sense and multitasking skills. it is safe to say protoss is the hardest in a higher level of play because bisu is the only successful protoss. that being said protoss is the most unsuccesssful race we're not talking about the koreans. Atleast I am not. look at the title it says why is protoss easy. its talking about the race in general. its illogical to argue saying protoss is the easiest when your not considering the korean progaming scene when e sports was originated from korea what your saying is like saying nony is the best player in the world without considering all other players in korea.... now plz if you going to argue give me logical arguement
Its probably equally hard to master each race. However no foreigner has yet mastered a race.
Foreigners and korean are playing at different levels. Im not talking about protoss being easiest if both players practice 16hours a day 7 hours a week with perfect strats and help from coaches etc.
I meantioned this before you just didn't read it perhaps.
I'm saying that its illogical to assume that the majority of foreign protoss players simply have better gamesense and skills.
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There has never been any statistical evidence to show that protoss is easier at any level. Until we have that its all speculation.
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It could be for Starleagues, with few zerg, there isn't much to limit the protoss population. Terran now has so many effective mech builds to easily take down some of the best zerg. Without the cycle of P>T>Z>P, it is now mainly P>T hence more protoss. It's just my Starleague theorycraft.
I didn't mention anything about the protoss ease of use 
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On January 05 2009 21:21 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
However no foreigner has yet mastered a race.
No one has yet mastered a race. Not even Koreans.
Actually, it depends on what it means 'to master' something.
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I would never have expected such impressive results for the poll, here are the facts lazy p users 
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On January 05 2009 21:45 axel wrote:I would never have expected such impressive results for the poll, here are the facts lazy p users
I know, it's a real shame we're so lazy we can't can't even bother to vote in a poll. I mean, that's only like one 1a click, surely we should be able to do that!
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On January 05 2009 21:45 axel wrote:I would never have expected such impressive results for the poll, here are the facts lazy p users
When did public opinion begin to have anything to do with facts?
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In my opnion , protoss became the easiest race for some years now because of mbc/ ogn kind of "policy" with theses new macro maps .Maps who gives advantages to protoss which means it forces terran/zerg to mostly turtle and fight with huge armies.
It started with the luna crap ,..and never stopped again..rush hour , azaela , longinus ( gas free welcome) r point andromeda ( even worst 3 bases start wtf?) and there are planty plenty others.
Nearly all new maps now have like 8/9 minerals patch in main and nearly as much in a very very near natural expansions wich means p can nearly always fe whatever the mu without difficulties.
Back in the years , expansions had to be "deserved" , there were micro battles and a lot of strategy involved , mostly on 1 base. Nowadays u can try to do the smartest strategy it could always fail vs a static protoss rallying in front of his natural.
Maybe if they started to make maps with less minerals patch in main and/or natural AND not giving a 3rd just near with a crap choke then maybe games would be a more balanced and , the most important , less boring / macro orientated.
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On January 05 2009 21:58 dream-_- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 21:45 axel wrote:I would never have expected such impressive results for the poll, here are the facts lazy p users When did public opinion begin to have anything to do with facts?
Around the Dark Ages.
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
lots of retards on this thread.
p is only easy at low levels. all races are REALLY hard at high level play. just because some of you retards currently see p dominating (for the 1st time in 11 years) doesn't mean it's suddenly an easy race at high level play.
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On January 05 2009 22:19 MyLostTemple wrote:
lots of retards on this thread.
p is only easy at low levels. all races are REALLY hard at high level play. just because some of you retards currently see p dominating (for the 1st time in 11 years) doesn't mean it's suddenly an easy race at high level play.
EasiER, not easy. This is a very important distinction here. Obviously high-level P playing requires lots of speed and skill which only very few players will reach AT ALL. But among these few players who DO reach this level, there are ~60-70% Protoss players. And THAT is the problem.
I'm sure most of the players complaining about P wouldn't complain about them if it was just 1 or 2 P gosus (e.g. Bisu and Stork) dominating. We're used to 1 or 2 bonjwas at a time - Boxer/Yellow, July/Oov, Savior, Bisu.
But today, it's not just one or two. It's fucking SIX of them ("the six dragons" - sounds nice, but in fact it's a huge problem for SC). And all of them are in the top 10 KeSPA. And on top foreigner level the majority is Protoss too. If you STILL argue that P is only easy at low levels, you're just really retarded or ignorant or didn't look how well all P players are doing at the moment.
Once you look at the actual race distributions you have to notice that something's definitely wrong.
But I guess P players will always say that P is only the easiest at low levels, which is just PART of the truth (the truth is that it's also the easiest on top foreign level and now *apparently* even the easiest in Korea too), after all who wants to be laughed at for playing the easiest race?
Anyway. P will continue to dominate in 2009 if it goes on like this, and this discussion will pop up again and again. Sometimes, the majority is right after all...
We'll probably need new maps which nerf Protoss, or a new balance patch (which won't happen). Or maybe no one even cares anymore about the state of SC and it'll just go on like this until SC2 is released and SC1 dies. Maybe the vast majority of SC players and fans like Protoss that they don't care.
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After watching + Show Spoiler + Jaedong stomping bisu in proleague with mass hydra/lurk + a group of muts to snipe hts
Nevertheless i think you are right. Terran and zerg have big troubles to beat top protoss players lately.
Maybe because most of the top players atm are protoss hehe.
+ Show Spoiler +
Also P is definitly better to play at low level because the machanics are way easier. You just have to use your brain to beat terrans with 200 apm whereas you barely reach 140.
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On January 05 2009 22:42 0xDEADBEEF wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 22:19 MyLostTemple wrote:
lots of retards on this thread.
p is only easy at low levels. all races are REALLY hard at high level play. just because some of you retards currently see p dominating (for the 1st time in 11 years) doesn't mean it's suddenly an easy race at high level play. EasiER, not easy. This is a very important distinction here. Obviously high-level P playing requires lots of speed and skill which only very few players will reach AT ALL. But among these few players who DO reach this level, there are ~60-70% Protoss players. And THAT is the problem. I'm sure most of the players complaining about P wouldn't complain about them if it was just 1 or 2 P gosus (e.g. Bisu and Stork) dominating. We're used to 1 or 2 bonjwas at a time - Boxer/Yellow, July/Oov, Savior, Bisu. But today, it's not just one or two. It's fucking SIX of them ("the six dragons" - sounds nice, but in fact it's a huge problem for SC). And all of them are in the top 10 KeSPA. And on top foreigner level the majority is Protoss too. If you STILL argue that P is only easy at low levels, you're just really retarded or ignorant or didn't look how well all P players are doing at the moment. Once you look at the actual race distributions you have to notice that something's definitely wrong. But I guess P players will always say that P is only the easiest at low levels, which is just PART of the truth (the truth is that it's also the easiest on top foreign level and now *apparently* even the easiest in Korea too), after all who wants to be laughed at for playing the easiest race? Anyway. P will continue to dominate in 2009 if it goes on like this, and this discussion will pop up again and again. Sometimes, the majority is right after all... We'll probably need new maps which nerf Protoss, or a new balance patch (which won't happen). Or maybe no one even cares anymore about the state of SC and it'll just go on like this until SC2 is released and SC1 dies. Maybe the vast majority of SC players and fans like Protoss that they don't care.
This is pretty wrong on a number of levels.
Protoss, if anything, is hardest at high levels. The armies are weaker, especially in the PvT matchup so it requires a lot more thought and creativity. Terran can win through pure mechanics and Zerg can get really ahead in the early/mid-game.
There aren't any bonjwas around right now. If anything is to blame for the current protoss dominance it's a mixture of coincidence (just so happens all 6 dragons are just really gosu players), map imbalance, and the metagame.
Maps that nerf Protoss will just change the six dragons to FlaSh, Mind, Fantasy, Leta, Skyhigh, and firebathero. That's not going to change anything. The best thing for the SC Community is for KESPA to pick the most balanced maps possible. Then if anyone is "dominating" hopefully you people will attribute it to their skill as players.
Just because it's less mechanically demanding, doesn't make it easier at the pro level.
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On January 05 2009 21:38 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2009 21:21 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
However no foreigner has yet mastered a race.
No one has yet mastered a race. Not even Koreans. Actually, it depends on what it means 'to master' something.
ofcourse not. i mean that to get S-class or close to S-class progamer level its propably equally hard. For noobs and foreign level good players its probably easier for toss.
low level = foreigners
high level = pro gamers
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On January 05 2009 22:19 MyLostTemple wrote:
lots of retards on this thread.
p is only easy at low levels. all races are REALLY hard at high level play. just because some of you retards currently see p dominating (for the 1st time in 11 years) doesn't mean it's suddenly an easy race at high level play.
equally hard @ progamer level
probably easier at foreign level
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On January 05 2009 22:10 axel wrote:
In my opnion , protoss became the easiest race for some years now because of mbc/ ogn kind of "policy" with theses new macro maps .Maps who gives advantages to protoss which means it forces terran/zerg to mostly turtle and fight with huge armies.
It started with the luna crap ,..and never stopped again..rush hour , azaela , longinus ( gas free welcome) r point andromeda ( even worst 3 bases start wtf?) and there are planty plenty others.
Nearly all new maps now have like 8/9 minerals patch in main and nearly as much in a very very near natural expansions wich means p can nearly always fe whatever the mu without difficulties.
Back in the years , expansions had to be "deserved" , there were micro battles and a lot of strategy involved , mostly on 1 base. Nowadays u can try to do the smartest strategy it could always fail vs a static protoss rallying in front of his natural.
Maybe if they started to make maps with less minerals patch in main and/or natural AND not giving a 3rd just near with a crap choke then maybe games would be a more balanced and , the most important , less boring / macro orientated.
Ya, back in the day when maps like blade storm made it so difficult to expand. (thats sarcasm for those who weren't around in those days)
Only maps toss have ever dominated on are islands, and now after 10 years of progaming we have a toss power swing. I think its well overdue.
New school toss is strong, but terran/zerg will adapt, just like protoss adapted to the once bullshit matchup that was pvz.
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On January 05 2009 13:05 daz wrote:
[
a few points that I wanna throw about this post that was clearly inspired by nerdrage
1. what the fuck is so imba about DT rush? if you dont scout it and you dont prepare for it you will die, just like if i dont scout your 2fac and dont prepare for it i will also die.
2. So wait what your saying here is dt rushing is imba so its gay, but its ok for zerg to cheese?
Even if it is that imbalanced, suck it up princess, its not nearly as imbalanced as zvp used to be for 8 years, payback is a bitch huh?
3. In 70-80 games this season and around the same last season and a few seasons ago this has yet to happen to me.
4. if you got past D+ maybe you wouldnt get cheesed so much. But you probably never will.
1. DTs are the most overpowered unit in the game, they do more damage then battlecruisers and are permanently cloaked. If I could build permanently cloaked battlecruisers instead of wraiths It would be totally overpowered. If you dont scout it (impossible because protoss just blocks ramp with 1 goon and you always scout them last on python) and you prepare for it they never actually do dts, and its much more difficult for a learning player to use proper ebay timing based off of scouting information then it is for toss to go citadel->templar archives (add robo bay if u pylon block urself or forget ur 1 dragoon). The only reason you die if you dont scout 2 fact is because ur micro is bad. Terran siege tank/mine micro is so much more unforgiving then goon micro dont even pretend like 2 facting is cheese.
2. Yeah because protoss units are imbalanced and it is impossible for zerg to win without cheese. 2 years ago I'm sure u were playing fastest so cry about imbalance more scrub
3. Happens to me all the time. Do you never see games that say 1v1 [rank] NO P, because thats exactly what it is.
4. Yeah I fuck around on iccup a shitton, and if you knew some of the builds that I do (nuke rush, battlecruiser rush, SK terran vrs protoss(lol emp), trying to win games with only manner buildings/probes, ling slowdrop, proxy hatchery, proxy barracks fake FD, vulture mine + lockdown tvp, archon only zvp, starship troopers, firebat+valkyrie+tank tvz, cloak wraith + m&m obs killing tvp, omg the list goes on) you would laugh that my win rate is so good. Honestly I'm not saying I'm good (yeah I make new accounts and D-C- bash all day, I never plan on putting the dedication in to play super competitively) If u honestly think iccup stats matter check my stats account -- petzergling597 . 1v1 faggot?
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Lol admitting you're a protoss player is not going to help your argument.
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EPT
