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okey i guess, i dont have much more add about the hayprothing then 
But remember that emerald is a person too and if he did a mistake maybe he learned from it now, he is not an extremely experienced tournament hoster eventho he has hosted a couple of offline tournaments aswell, and i think him changing his mind this late would look really weird... also an apology would be very hard since it seems in emerald repons that he feels pretty insulted by bartar and feels bartar spread lies about what really happened.
or im not really sure what bartar and u are after in this thread idra, apology or reverse of decision?
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On December 25 2007 21:50 TreK[cF] wrote:
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or im not really sure what bartar and u are after in this thread idra, apology or reverse of decision?
$$$
But I do agree that a fair rematch would be the best solution. It aint ToT's fault that Haypro hacked (once?Cant believe it but there is no other proof) in the past while still in another team, but there should still be some sort of punishment to set an example to all teams: no hackers allowed. For that reason a rematch sounds like the best way out of this; or with the players online at the time, or where each team can pick any player.
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sure but the problem remains that its unknown what totmembers were available for that particular game and as i said before just cause somebody wasnt online doesnt mean he couldnt instantly log on if really needed, myself forexample...altho i doubt i was needed
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weird or not it would be in place...
and i think everyone with some common sense knows he is wrong.. anyway just a fair rematch should be ok and tot should be very happy with that...
i think by apologizing now and reversing the decision would show he is a man that is not afraid to admit his mistakes... i think that should be the only right action, although i too do not think that is likely to happen..
the thing that bartar insulted him... well he should be above that and it shouldnt influence his decisionmaking... he is wgt admin after all they should be used to critisicm and such...
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But when did i insult him? Because i didnt accept the order for his kind of "fair regame" ;o and said we will forfeit? Because i presented to the community the 100% facts as they happened here :
http://sc.gosugamers.net/thread.php?id=188440&start=40
comment #50
and answered with proofs to his lies? In the bottom line, did or he did not ban Haypro from Qcup? What Qpad has to say about this?
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I have mixed feelings, but kind of lean toward excello in this matter; the other side was caught cheating. In fact, since they were caught cheating, instead of regaming I would disqualify the player and count it as a loss... because he broke the rules and needs to be punished more than a "Whoops, you got caught! Our bad!"
I would prefer either a reselection of both players, a random selection of players, or Haypro's game count as a DQ loss.
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Sounds like xLo got screwed here. We all know xLo doesn't have a great past but they did get screwed this time.I would bitch about this situation to after all it is $700 euros.
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Awww...forget it...
No sympathy towards the hacker.
His Team is DQ'd, everyone suffers and loses, and those wronged get the title, the money, and the honor.
Nothing against any player as a person, but we shouldn't tolerate cheating.
gg no re
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shhh 
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i normally dont agree with bartar but in this case i also think they both should put a new player in and replay it, even if he didnt hack or so that match i do think the penaltys are to low for hackers now anyway.
people who hacked just contineu playing leags and other teams get out of a devision or so because another team used 2 seasons a hacker this never get reserved either.
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On December 26 2007 00:31 Bartar wrote:But when did i insult him? Because i didnt accept the order for his kind of "fair regame" ;o and said we will forfeit? Because i presented to the community the 100% facts as they happened here : http://sc.gosugamers.net/thread.php?id=188440&start=40comment #50 and answered with proofs to his lies? In the bottom line, did or he did not ban Haypro from Qcup? What Qpad has to say about this?
I dont know the answer to that im not emerald and i cba to read through all of your posts finding the insult(s) if there are any all i said was it SEEMED in emeralds post that he was insulted by you, i just explained why i would find it very unlikely for emerald to apologize. all ive seen is that u have called him a liar several times and he has called u basically the same so i dont see you2 getting along very well in the future.
The thing for me is that u bartar reminds me alot of bingbong and sgravo when they tried to get to "the top" by prettymuch talking bad about tot or discredit them, you dont have to concur or deny this...but it just seems that way for me and im sure im not the only one who see it that way either.
Maybe i got it all wrong, im not online on bnet so much i mostly read the forums and talk to randoms tots from time to time.
EDIT : speaking of the devil hi bingbong..beat nada 3-0 lately?
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Bartar honeslty your a tool, HayprO didn't hack vs signal, and the chances are you will face a lessor tot, since haypro was and is amazing player.
He hacked int hat 1 game vs Strelok, his account makes sense. Show me him hacking vs signal or anyone else, even a little bit of evidence in another rep and i will beleive it. But until then, Haypro fucking totaled you, you lost in the final Signal vs HayprO, i think it's fair that signal gets a reamtch if the rules dictate that if he was caught hacking anywhere that he's fucked, even though he didn't hack anywhere outside of that one game.
Now signal gets another shot to take the gold, tell me why you should be alowd to replace your player? I really see no reason. Your getting another shot vs another ToT, deal with it. Feel lucky that your trying to play it off that haypro is some evil hacker like Hungtran or something. But he' snot and you know it.
Basically your getting a shot at winning something that you shouldn't and are trying to manipulate the circumstances some more to assure that you win it.
But then again i'm not 100% sure on hoq Qcup works or anything, so maybe your alowd to choose a player for a final, but then that means you already chose Signal ofr the final, and why should you get to choose a different player who you tihnk has a better chance when you already chose him and lost? It makes no sense.
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TreK you wouldn't think like that about me if you actually knew me^^.
Without any harsh feelings at all, trust me, i no need reach the top by overunning ToT. I'm perfectly happy with what i have built and where i have come, even if this means a top2 behind ToT or top3,4,5 behind any other team out there. I run my team for almost 3 years and we have our long history, tradition and big list of impressive awards. Im definetely not obsessed with winning ToT;o But that doesnt mean i will not work hard to defeat them in every single match. And ofcourse 700 euros are a big moto for my players and me who see gaming more professional.
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On December 26 2007 02:23 MoNKeYSpanKeR wrote:
Bartar honeslty your a tool, HayprO didn't hack vs signal, and the chances are you will face a lessor tot, since haypro was and is amazing player.
He hacked int hat 1 game vs Strelok, his account makes sense. Show me him hacking vs signal or anyone else, even a little bit of evidence in another rep and i will beleive it. But until then, Haypro fucking totaled you, you lost in the final Signal vs HayprO, i think it's fair that signal gets a reamtch if the rules dictate that if he was caught hacking anywhere that he's fucked, even though he didn't hack anywhere outside of that one game. can you prove hungtran hacked in all of his wgtcl games? nope, you cant. why were all his results reversed?
also, his account vs strelok doesnt make sense. it was a lie. read strelok's posts on the matter.
Now signal gets another shot to take the gold, tell me why you should be alowd to replace your player? I really see no reason. Your getting another shot vs another ToT, deal with it. Feel lucky that your trying to play it off that haypro is some evil hacker like Hungtran or something. But he' snot and you know it.
Basically your getting a shot at winning something that you shouldn't and are trying to manipulate the circumstances some more to assure that you win it.
what the fuck are you talking about? he purposefully hacked vs strelok in a competitive game and then lied to cover it up. how is that any better than hungtran? and signal needs to be replaced because otherwise tot can choose their player while knowing who hes going to be playing vs, which is obviously unfair.
But then again i'm not 100% sure on hoq Qcup works or anything, so maybe your alowd to choose a player for a final, but then that means you already chose Signal ofr the final, and why should you get to choose a different player who you tihnk has a better chance when you already chose him and lost? It makes no sense.
its a regular clanwar, not a tournament like the regular season. dont post if you dont know whats going on.
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United States20661 Posts
Purposefully hacked vs Strelok? what? did I miss something?
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at first he claimed he just left oblivion on accidentally (because he uses it to obs.) vs strelok. but then strelok posted saying he was lying, first time they played haypro left after 15 seconds because of "sound issues" and then they re'd and played the full game. the game played after the re was the one where he was caught hacking, meaning it had to be done purposefully.
so its haypro's word vs strelok's word, they were friends before this whole thing and strelok has nothing to gain from lying, while haypro obviously does, so its pretty clear haypro was lying.
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Idra : you always take up the same things, fact is that haypro only was caught in 1 game with automining without knowing that the automining function (that is on by default) would be the factor to get caught as ive said so many times now...hence him "hacking" in only 1 of the 3 games makes very little sense, infact him hacking in 1 game of 50 000 games makes even less sense.
So maybe streloks and haypros stories didnt match 100%, there is nobody to back up nobody, and just cause someone of the 2 either remembers wrong or whatever the deal is because it happened 1 month earlier before haypro was caught, yes it is possible that the mighty strelok remembered wrong eventho aparently being so sure, its also possible that haypro remembered wrong...its not definate that somebody LIED and covered up things.
According to you haypro firstly "played 15 seconds and left cause of sound" and left the game, didnt rejoin bnet (afaik) and then went on to play with the autominingfunction in the next game which makes no sense cause if he had the hack on from game 1, which he would have had to since you aparently cant turn it on unless being activeonline at bnet(which he didnt leave afaik), he could have just turned it on IN the game 1 which was restarded after 15 seconds against streloks which strelok claims (pushing insert starts maphack).
It also makes no sense that haypro would then use this hack in 1 game of oh so many games, we can prettymuch agree on that automining and maphack went hand in hand since nobody knew that automining was detectable on bwchart and since it was on by default.
So stop the "haypro was lying" the deal was NOT that haypro said he hacked in 1 game and we found out several other games that he had hacked in like the deal was with all other autominingcaught hackers
You cant base your whole "case" on that streloks and haypros stories didnt match.
You may say that haypro did automininghack against strelok in 1 game cause he was caught doing that, you may even say that haypro used maphack in that very game if u so will since there is noway to know that he actually didnt use maphack in that game now that automining was on, but you may not say he lied to cover it up cause that is just speculations along with him using it in other games. So aslong as we are discussing anything else but haypro caught using automining (and maphack) against strelok in 1 game it is just speculations
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actually you can base everything off that one game. the fact that they re'd and he still had it on in the second game proves it wasnt accidental(unless he just didnt notice that his drones split themselves in the first game)
and if it wasnt accidental the whole 'it was a one time mistake' excuse falls apart.
not really sure why you're arguing that, even emerald agrees that he deserved to be punished for the game vs strelok(otherwise haypro vs signal from the finals would stand).
and once again, the fact that he wasnt caught with automining in any other games does suggest that it really was a one time mistake. but, once again, there is no way to know and he ruined his credibility by using it the one time, even just by having it on his computer. however the fact that it does seem likely that it was a one time thing is why we only want a (FAIR) regame, and dont want his match forfeited outright.
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ofc i agree that he should be punished for his use of hack in that one game.
i just find it funny that u base your whole case on that strelok remembers 100% right and haypro is a liar, without taking into account that it happened 1 month ago.
My personal believe is that they played 1 game and haypro accidently still had his hack on after obsing for about an hour, he was too ashamed to say anything and/or he didnt think the autominingsplit would matter and for some reason decided he would turn it off for the next game, i dont 100% see the logic in that but at that moment he made that decision, in the next game he forgot to turn it off and blamed sound for restarting bw to turn off the hack, this is obvious speculations from my part but it sure looks more like a valid story.. honestly?
ive never argued against that haypro shouldnt be punished, im guessing u dont read very much of what i type in my posts
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He had oblivion on his computer. Don't be so naive. He did lie, outright.
He's a hacker and a liar and someone who generally doesn't give a damn because that's just his persona.
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EPT
