EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 509
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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Mc
332 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/24w1pn/crowd_source_important_political_poll_done_in/ disclaimer : supposedly a phone survey. Yes, I know it has a bias as was argued earlier in this thread, and I can't tell if they called only land-lines or cell-phones also. So it could have a significant age bias. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On May 07 2014 23:59 Ghanburighan wrote: Deescalation is real, it could be a trick, but no solid analysis can be found at this point from either side. Putin has held several meetings with the Swiss OSCE chairman and appears to have gotten the assurances he needed about more specific details. Nothing is certain before the steps in the 4-step process has been implemented, but it seems Putin has accepted that he cannot keep the situation going 'till after the election without facing sanctions or intervene without facing worse sanctions. Whether he has other plans later is difficult to say, but for now he is saying exactly what has been asked of him. Also from the Donetsk Peoples Republic leader: "We have the utmost respect for president Putin. If he considers that necessary, we will of course discuss it." Seems Putins words can affect them... Even though none of the necessary actions have been reported and confirmed by objective observers or both sides this is the right path to deescalation. | ||
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Serpest
United States603 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On May 07 2014 20:58 m4ini wrote: Yeah. Right. Do you even read what you're writing, or just hammering on the keyboard to vent? They're trying to hold the elections that you oh so value, there's just the tiny problem of insurgents running rampant and telling you in advance that, whatever the outcome, they won't accept it. And no. The population doesn't take up arms. Retards do. The population doesn't want the interim government, but they also don't want those fucktards with rocketlaunchers/assault rifles running wild. Conveniently ignored by you, even worse, you actually connect "people" with "terrorists/rebels". Get real. Did you just take two quotes out of context to mock someone for hammering on the keyboard to vent? A little ironic. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
http://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/464072229374795776 Separatist leader talks about delaying the referendum by one week, so it will be held before the 18th of May | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
I totally agree - he's trying to make it seem like he's helping resolve the crisis, which is offensive to say the least. As you stated, a major factor seems to be the fact that Ukraine's military has regained enough composure that they are making headway against the separatists. I also wonder if the Odessa fire played a role in this - "I can tone down my aggressive actions, now that pro-Russians are so inflamed about the fire (amongst other things) that they'll continue to hate Kiev and destabilize for a long time". Honestly, I doubt it was a significant factor, but it's sad that these are the sorts of calculations that Putin is making. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
A talk between separatist Boycov Dmitriy and Russian coordinator Barkashov A.P. (wiki) Boycov says literally that if Russia doesn't help them, they are f***ed. And that there is no way to hold the referendum. In return Barkashov is lecturing him that they are out of their mind out there and nobody needs to run around counting f***ing papers. He insists they should just say the numbers whichever they like, suggesting 89%. Boycov says ok, we have a vote for Donetsk Republic, what's next? Barkashov replies it depends on what Ukraine will do, and that everyone in Russia is worked up (especially Kadyrov) and they don't understand what Putin is waiting for. Boycov says if Putin doesn't help, everyone in Ukraine, Russia and Belarus will be alienated against him. P.S. the discussion took place yesterday. P.P.S. there is a translated version + Show Spoiler + | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Zookeeper
Greece3 Posts
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kukarachaa
United States284 Posts
On May 08 2014 02:03 oneofthem wrote: lol this is fantastic stuff. Not really, it is posted on a reddit and this is a top comment. "Misleading title by SBU and OP. This is a recorded conversation between (allegedly) old and extremely outdated nationalist, leader of RNE, barely known to most modern russians and talking head at his best Barkashov - and some previously completely unknown guy from unknown organization named "Orthodox Donbass", not even one of the rebels' leaders. And this is evidence? Really? No, this is another piece of bullshit propaganda." | ||
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Greem
730 Posts
On May 08 2014 02:18 kukarachaa wrote: Not really, it is posted on a reddit and this is a top comment. "Misleading title by SBU and OP. This is a recorded conversation between (allegedly) old and extremely outdated nationalist, leader of RNE, barely known to most modern russians and talking head at his best Barkashov - and some previously completely unknown guy from unknown organization named "Orthodox Donbass", not even one of the rebels' leaders. And this is evidence? Really? No, this is another piece of bullshit propaganda." good to know someone actually checking some stuff out to see if its relevant and what importanly looks more like truth, which is out there, somewhere. Shameful display , those who blindly believe everything they see without checking it at least several hundred times, that is , if they really interested in getting to the point, and not just posting the confirmation to they beliefs and personal opinion. | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6286 Posts
On May 08 2014 01:36 DeepElemBlues wrote: Putin has also said the separatists should delay their referendum. I think he's flailing just a little bit right now, he expected Kiev to crawl into the fetal position when he threatened it repeatedly about sending soldiers against the separatists. Implying that Russia would invade if Kiev didn't submit was the main thrust of Russian policy for a week and a half and it failed. Kiev called his bluff and now he needs to regain his equilibrium because the sense is that events on the ground are in charge at the moment and not Vladimir Putin. In reality Putin says some shit, Russian stock market improves, shit still going on in east Ukraine, Crimea still Russian. Whatever anyone says will anyway be spun later to fit an agenda. Russia asks for peace = Putin weak, lets all make fun of him. Russia doesn't back down = omg Soviet Union | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
"Misleading title by SBU and OP. unsupported assertion This is a recorded conversation between (allegedly) old and extremely outdated nationalist, irrelevant leader of RNE, barely known to most modern russians irrelevant and talking head at his best Barkashov unsupported assertion also irrelevant and some previously completely unknown guy from unknown organization named "Orthodox Donbass" two unsupported assertions not even one of the rebels' leaders. unsupported assertion And this is evidence? Really? this is an argument? really? No, this is another piece of bullshit propaganda." i agree, that comment against this recording is bullshit propaganda. barkashov being barely known to most modern russians = completely irrelevant to whether he could be used by the kremlin as a coordinator for separatists. irrelevant. there is literally nothing in that comment that is either supported or relevant. barkashov's popularity or relevance in russian politics has zero relevancy to whether or not he is being used or could be used as a coordinator by the kremlin. this is how you demagogue - toss a bunch of irrelevant denigrating shit against your target and hope some of it sticks. barkashov's allegedly being "extremely old and outdated" has zero bearing on whether or not he could be a kremlin agent. "talking head at best" is an unsupported assertion. "previously completely unknown guy" = unsupported assertion. "unknown organization" = unsupported assertion. i highly doubt this guy knows the name of every single separatist organization operating in eastern ukraine anyway. it's all misdirection and minimizing, the hallmarks of the propagandist. maybe this recording is fake as can be but that comment doesn't prove jack. In reality Putin says some shit, Russian stock market improves, shit still going on in east Ukraine, Crimea still Russian. Whatever anyone says will anyway be spun later to fit an agenda. Russia asks for peace = Putin weak, lets all make fun of him. Russia doesn't back down = omg Soviet Union in reality today is the first day the russian stock market has done anything other than shrink or stagnate in almost a month. putin saying "some shit" indicating a possible russian backdown lowers the belief that more sanctions are coming and encourages buying instead of selling. ruble still falling (1% today). i guess we're supposed to ignore the russian stock market losing 13% of its value in a month because today it went up 3.4% (not 3.4% of what it was, 3.4% from where it had fallen to). today doesn't mean it went from losing 13% to losing 9.6%, more like 13% to 12.8% or something at best. i did not say "russia asks for peace = putin weak, lets all make fun of him" and i did not make fun of him myself. yes, whatever anyone says will be spun later, you're spinning faster than a centrifuge right now. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On May 08 2014 03:12 DeepElemBlues wrote: barkashov being barely known to most modern russians = completely irrelevant to whether he could be used by the kremlin as a coordinator for separatists. ultranationalists having links with other ultranationalists. who would have thought. By your logic any russian is a 'potential coordinator'. These phonecalls shouldn't even be part of the discussion at all. They can't be verified. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On May 08 2014 03:23 Derez wrote: ultranationalists having links with other ultranationalists. who would have thought. By your logic any russian is a 'potential coordinator'. These phonecalls shouldn't even be part of the discussion at all. They can't be verified in the first place. no that isn't my logic and i wonder how you could have arrived at that conclusion. it would require placing a step in my reasoning that doesn't exist. there are plenty of apparatchiks who most russians have never heard of who are intimately involved in the ukraine crisis, does saying that mean that by its logic any russian is a potential coordinator? come on now. ultranationalists having links with other ultranationalists would tend to support the idea that barkashov could be helping coordinate between moscow and donetsk. ultranationalist rank-and-filers probably don't have direct connections to and communications with ultranationalists in other countries, but an ultranationalist politician - no matter how allegedly old and outdated - probably does. | ||
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