disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
There is no dirty bomb. Its a lie. Even if they did seize plutonium, smuggling nuclear material is a common occurrence in the former eastern block.
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of sides interested in Russian intervention. Yanukovich for example. But I don't expect you to be able to look that far, relax.
@Mc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher Seems like it's quite easy to intercept GMS phone calls. The caveat is that the target has to be using a cell-phone but it's very likely that most of the separatists do communicate using cell-phones. The second and more significant caveat is how effective is this for capturing a specific phone call? I assume the trick is to set up an IMSI-capture very close to one of the rebel strong-holds and listen in?
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of interested in Russian intervention sides. Yanukovich for example.
Yanukovych has absolutely nothing to gain, they hate him in eastern Ukraine and see him as a traitor. Your annalists in Kiev are getting more and more desperate to move attention away from the complete failure their paramilitary/militia is facing in eastern Ukraine.
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of interested in Russian intervention sides. Yanukovich for example.
Yanukovych has absolutely nothing to gain, they hate him in eastern Ukraine and see him as a traitor. Your annalists in Kiev are getting more and more desperate to move attention away from the complete failure their paramilitary/militia is facing in eastern Ukraine.
Nothing to gain? Aren't you the one claiming he is still the legitimate President of entire Ukraine?
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of interested in Russian intervention sides. Yanukovich for example.
Yanukovych has absolutely nothing to gain, they hate him in eastern Ukraine and see him as a traitor. Your annalists in Kiev are getting more and more desperate to move attention away from the complete failure their paramilitary/militia is facing in eastern Ukraine.
Nothing to gain? Aren't you the one claiming he is still the legitimate President of entire Ukraine?
He is, you can be a president of a country with 5% approval rating. Of course free and fair elections not organized by a junta should chose your successor. Which is a little hard to do when cities that make up 15% of your population and 1/4th of your economy think a junta controlling the country is such a bad idea that they take up arms. And when the interim government have Grad multiple rocket launcher system's and self propelled guns aimed at a city of 100,000 people that is getting blockaded by its own country... talking about elections on may 25th is stupid.
And you do have a point - if there was actually material for a dirty bomb (I'm 99% sure it wasn't), Yanukovych seems like the mostly culprit. I didn't consider this. He does have significant support in the region, he has enough money to get the material, and he could be delusional enough to think that he could head an independent state in the area *if* Russia intervened in a response to a dirty bomb. I stand corrected
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of interested in Russian intervention sides. Yanukovich for example.
Yanukovych has absolutely nothing to gain, they hate him in eastern Ukraine and see him as a traitor. Your annalists in Kiev are getting more and more desperate to move attention away from the complete failure their paramilitary/militia is facing in eastern Ukraine.
Nothing to gain? Aren't you the one claiming he is still the legitimate President of entire Ukraine?
He is, you can be a president of a country with 5% approval rating. Of course free and fair elections not organized by a junta should chose your successor. Which is a little hard to do when cities that make up 15% of your population and 1/4th of your economy think a junta controlling the country is such a bad idea that they take up arms. And when the interim government have Grad multiple rocket launcher system's and self propelled guns aimed at a city of 100,000 people that is getting blockaded by its own country... talking about elections on may 25th is stupid.
lol, you are so funny trying to keep your world views from falling apart.
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of interested in Russian intervention sides. Yanukovich for example.
Yanukovych has absolutely nothing to gain, they hate him in eastern Ukraine and see him as a traitor. Your annalists in Kiev are getting more and more desperate to move attention away from the complete failure their paramilitary/militia is facing in eastern Ukraine.
Nothing to gain? Aren't you the one claiming he is still the legitimate President of entire Ukraine?
He is, you can be a president of a country with 5% approval rating. Of course free and fair elections not organized by a junta should chose your successor. Which is a little hard to do when cities that make up 15% of your population and 1/4th of your economy think a junta controlling the country is such a bad idea that they take up arms. And when the interim government have Grad multiple rocket launcher system's and self propelled guns aimed at a city of 100,000 people that is getting blockaded by its own country... talking about elections on may 25th is stupid.
lol, you are so funny trying to keep your world views from falling apart.
Yeah man, my world view that a president should be elected by the people with elections is so outdated. All this modernist shit going on in Ukraine way ahead of me.
On May 07 2014 19:09 Mc wrote: @cheerio Concerning the dirty bomb, Russia can invade with or without a dirty bomb. The point of waiting to invade until X tragedy happens, is to justify the invasion in the eye's of the West. If a dirty bomb goes off on separatists, the West will not suspect Ukrainian government or nationalists. It will suspect Russia and sanctions will be even harsher against Russia.
I guess my doubts concerning the truthfulness of Ukrainian government/SBU were exaggerated. Small things - like "we found a package that *might* contain radioactive" materials is trying to counter Russian propaganda. I'd rather they just stick to facts, but given their position it's understandable for them to use half-truths and exaggerations. It's also understandable that they could jump to conclusions, given all the emotions clouding ones rational thoughts when your neighbour is trying to destroy your country.
Any thoughts on the intercepted calls though? I doubted them because there were so many and they seemed to be "too good, to be true". How do they intercept these calls? Is it the SBU forcing telecommunication companies to give up info? How easy it is to intercept cellphone conversations?
Sorry for the brief note but it's important to note that Russia has made a point about not justifying its actions in the eyes of international law. This is surely intentional as it forces a shift in the international legal system which allows Russia to pursue its interests more aggressively. See the Kadri Liik article I posted earlier for a more detailed exposition.
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of interested in Russian intervention sides. Yanukovich for example.
Yanukovych has absolutely nothing to gain, they hate him in eastern Ukraine and see him as a traitor. Your annalists in Kiev are getting more and more desperate to move attention away from the complete failure their paramilitary/militia is facing in eastern Ukraine.
Nothing to gain? Aren't you the one claiming he is still the legitimate President of entire Ukraine?
He is, you can be a president of a country with 5% approval rating. Of course free and fair elections not organized by a junta should chose your successor. Which is a little hard to do when cities that make up 15% of your population and 1/4th of your economy think a junta controlling the country is such a bad idea that they take up arms. And when the interim government have Grad multiple rocket launcher system's and self propelled guns aimed at a city of 100,000 people that is getting blockaded by its own country... talking about elections on may 25th is stupid.
lol, you are so funny trying to keep your world views from falling apart.
Yeah man, my world view that a president should be elected by the people with elections is so outdated. All this modernist shit going on in Ukraine way ahead of me.
talking about elections on may 25th is stupid.
Yeah. Right.
Do you even read what you're writing, or just hammering on the keyboard to vent? They're trying to hold the elections that you oh so value, there's just the tiny problem of insurgents running rampant and telling you in advance that, whatever the outcome, they won't accept it. And no. The population doesn't take up arms. Retards do. The population doesn't want the interim government, but they also don't want those fucktards with rocketlaunchers/assault rifles running wild. Conveniently ignored by you, even worse, you actually connect "people" with "terrorists/rebels".
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of interested in Russian intervention sides. Yanukovich for example.
Yanukovych has absolutely nothing to gain, they hate him in eastern Ukraine and see him as a traitor. Your annalists in Kiev are getting more and more desperate to move attention away from the complete failure their paramilitary/militia is facing in eastern Ukraine.
Nothing to gain? Aren't you the one claiming he is still the legitimate President of entire Ukraine?
He is, you can be a president of a country with 5% approval rating. Of course free and fair elections not organized by a junta should chose your successor. Which is a little hard to do when cities that make up 15% of your population and 1/4th of your economy think a junta controlling the country is such a bad idea that they take up arms. And when the interim government have Grad multiple rocket launcher system's and self propelled guns aimed at a city of 100,000 people that is getting blockaded by its own country... talking about elections on may 25th is stupid.
lol, you are so funny trying to keep your world views from falling apart.
Yeah man, my world view that a president should be elected by the people with elections is so outdated. All this modernist shit going on in Ukraine way ahead of me.
Do you even read what you're writing, or just hammering on the keyboard to vent? They're trying to hold the elections that you oh so value, there's just the tiny problem of insurgents running rampant and telling you in advance that, whatever the outcome, they won't accept it. And no. The population doesn't take up arms. Retards do. The population doesn't want the interim government, but they also don't want those fucktards with rocketlaunchers/assault rifles running wild. Conveniently ignored by you, even worse, you actually connect "people" with "terrorists/rebels".
Get real.
I'm sure a militia formed by an unelected government rocketing civilian populations which according to you 'don't support the armed men' is going to fix everything. Deescalate and talk, its not that hard. All it would take is one rocket falling into the city and there is no going back. Killing people doesn't fix anything, it makes it worse, look what happened after all those people were murdered in Odessa.
Get real.
People in Donetsk are also trying to hold a referendum, they are also unelected and are playing government just like the people in Kiev. All sides should just calm down and talk.
Do you remember what effects the use of chemical weapons had in Syria? Basically the idea is that if any kind of NBC weapons is used against the separatists, that would enable Russia to repeat Syrian scenario. Who actually used the bomb would not even matter.
And about SBU. So far I haven't seen anything big they've thrown out to be shown fabricated. They might be wrong when doing estimations, predictions, or on some minor stuff though.
You are seriously that brainwashed that you think Russia would set off a nuclear weapon to justify taking over a territory they just detonated a nuke in? What the hell are they showing you on Ukrainian tv?
Read carefully. I didn't say that would be Russia bombing. Who might be doing the "dirty" work is a very flexible matter. There is a number of interested in Russian intervention sides. Yanukovich for example.
Yanukovych has absolutely nothing to gain, they hate him in eastern Ukraine and see him as a traitor. Your annalists in Kiev are getting more and more desperate to move attention away from the complete failure their paramilitary/militia is facing in eastern Ukraine.
Nothing to gain? Aren't you the one claiming he is still the legitimate President of entire Ukraine?
He is, you can be a president of a country with 5% approval rating. Of course free and fair elections not organized by a junta should chose your successor. Which is a little hard to do when cities that make up 15% of your population and 1/4th of your economy think a junta controlling the country is such a bad idea that they take up arms. And when the interim government have Grad multiple rocket launcher system's and self propelled guns aimed at a city of 100,000 people that is getting blockaded by its own country... talking about elections on may 25th is stupid.
lol, you are so funny trying to keep your world views from falling apart.
Yeah man, my world view that a president should be elected by the people with elections is so outdated. All this modernist shit going on in Ukraine way ahead of me.
talking about elections on may 25th is stupid.
Yeah. Right.
Do you even read what you're writing, or just hammering on the keyboard to vent? They're trying to hold the elections that you oh so value, there's just the tiny problem of insurgents running rampant and telling you in advance that, whatever the outcome, they won't accept it. And no. The population doesn't take up arms. Retards do. The population doesn't want the interim government, but they also don't want those fucktards with rocketlaunchers/assault rifles running wild. Conveniently ignored by you, even worse, you actually connect "people" with "terrorists/rebels".
Get real.
I'm sure a militia formed by an unelected government rocketing civilian populations which according to you 'don't support the armed men' is going to fix everything. Deescalate and talk, its not that hard. All it would take is one rocket falling into the city and there is no going back. Killing people doesn't fix anything, it makes it worse, look what happened after all those people were murdered in Odessa.
Get real.
Not according to me, and you know it. There's plenty of polls out there - choose one and go with it. Ah you can't, because to my knowledge, there's no poll, nothing whatsoever supporting your claim that the population is supporting the rebels. Deescalate and talk does still not work if one side is not interested in talking or deescalation. Or elections, for that matter. "It's not that hard" is most likely the stupidest comment i've read in this thread so far (edit: in that context). Even nunez wasn't cocky enough to state something blatantly stupid like this (yeah, remember when i asked?).
Stop pointing at odessa, it's not like they didn't threw molotovs back. While i agree it's tragic, it's not surprising. And other than your claims (or wishes), there were people trying to help. And to read "killing doesn't fix anything" after odessa, but nothing condemning when it happened to "the other side".. Sigh.
People in Donetsk are also trying to hold a referendum, they are also unelected and are playing government just like the people in Kiev. All sides should just calm down and talk.
What does it matter? As much as you hate it or not, the interim government is at least trying to hold elections. They didn't just seize power, and hold it. They want elections even though they will get steamrolled. The people in donetsk are far from whatever happened in kiev, to my knowledge there weren't international hostages taken, threatened to be executed. While it's debatable if the way they came to power is good or not, their intentions so far are definately more towards peace than what the rebels are doing. They're not trying anything at all, whatsoever.
Whoever is in power on 26th, is most likely legitimate. Even though i'm actually not sure, i think the OSCE etc will make sure that it's as unrigged as you can get it. Speaking of which, since i'm not sure - any words on the elections being observed properly?
So an election 'observed' by the same people that supported a violent overthrow of government in a country where 20% of the population is not under self-proclaimed government control... is somehow legitimate. But if Russia acknowledges the self-proclaimed DPR governments referendum results they get more sanctions.
And you get to decide what is right and wrong based on what exactly?
3 SBU officers that were captured earlier ( the ones that were forced to give an interview without pants and blindfolded ) were exchanged for Mayors assistant ( the one that was stopped allegedly on the border with $19,000 and the phone encryption device ), Pavel Gubarev ( one the leaders of the People Republic of Donbass ), and third person ( unknown ). Exchange was made in Slavyansk.
Also after meeting with OSCE, Putin has asked the anti-kiev movement in Donetsk to delay their May 11th referendum, and once again asked for both sides to sit down and talk.
“We have been told that our troops on the Ukrainian border are a concern – we have withdrawn them. They are now not on Ukrainian territory, but at locations where they conduct regular drills at ranges,” Vladimir Putin said. http://rt.com/news/157404-putin-ukraine-crisis-kiev/
Note that Putin says "They are now not *on* Ukrainian territory", implying that there were before. I assume this is a mis-translation by RT.. and a very ironic one at that :p It's kinda late for Russia doing a volte-face on the conflict (Russia's credibility has already been destroyed), but I'm glad on this seemingly positive turn of events.
Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope the separatists/terrorists take this as a clear signal to deescalate.
EPT
