Tymoshenko calling for the attack on WWII veterans in Odessa on the 9th of May
Oh zeo, you are so easily fooled. In the edited video she is saying "during planned sport events in Eastern and Southern Ukraine... [other part] in order to enrage Odesa it is need that the veterans are attacked."
Do you really think that Tymoshenko is that stupid to believe that Odesa will rise up if WW2 veterans get beat up by people looking like they are pro-Russian? This is beyond stupid. Everyone will blame pro-Ukrainians regardless of how attackers look like. And she is making that shrewd plan of hers in front of half a dozen cameras?
In reality that was a meeting where she was disclosing intercepted plans of pro-Russians.
You find it so hard to believe this was said by the bread haired politician that said this:
She is clearly, clearly unstable though luckily has no government position.
... she confirmed the conversation EXCEPT the part where she is allegedly going to "shoot Russians [those that live in Ukraine] with nuclear weapons". First of all how do you shoot somebody with nuclear weapons? Secondly Ukraine doesn't have it. Thirdly how do you kill just Russians with nuclear weapons without killing Ukrainians?
Its not called an emotional outburst for nothing. When you get angry you just throw out words without thinking.
Edit: I highly doubt that she would press the nuke button if that nuke button was given to her. A lot of people bark but don't bite, still doesn't mean they can't be retards. Thank god she is irrelevant.
Actually she's not even very popular in Western Ukraine. That video makes for a good headline but she's not really relevant. Looking at the latest polls it seems very likely that Poroshenko would easily win the elections.
The Svoboda guy actually doesn't even score 2%. If Poroshenko would become president the fascist junta nonsense would stop which is exactly why Russia is going to do everything to make that election not mean anything.
Tymoshenko calling for the attack on WWII veterans in Odessa on the 9th of May
Oh zeo, you are so easily fooled. In the edited video she is saying "during planned sport events in Eastern and Southern Ukraine... [other part] in order to enrage Odesa it is need that the veterans are attacked."
Do you really think that Tymoshenko is that stupid to believe that Odesa will rise up if WW2 veterans get beat up by people looking like they are pro-Russian? This is beyond stupid. Everyone will blame pro-Ukrainians regardless of how attackers look like. And she is making that shrewd plan of hers in front of half a dozen cameras?
In reality that was a meeting where she was disclosing intercepted plans of pro-Russians.
She is clearly, clearly unstable though luckily has no government position.
... she confirmed the conversation EXCEPT the part where she is allegedly going to "shoot Russians [those that live in Ukraine] with nuclear weapons". First of all how do you shoot somebody with nuclear weapons? Secondly Ukraine doesn't have it. Thirdly how do you kill just Russians with nuclear weapons without killing Ukrainians?
Its not called an emotional outburst for nothing. When you get angry you just throw out words without thinking.
Edit: I highly doubt that she would press the nuke button if that nuke button was given to her. A lot of people bark but don't bite, still doesn't mean they can't be retards. Thank god she is irrelevant.
Actually she's not even very popular in Western Ukraine. That video makes for a good headline but she's not really relevant. Looking at the latest polls it seems very likely that Poroshenko would easily win the elections.
She's sure to lose, but she's also very rich and very nasty. Latest from Tymoshenkoville:
*** Background reading:
*** Just like every year around this time, Estonians have become fascists again:
More troubling though, the shift isn't constrained to words only:
P.S. @mfa_Russia posted a ton of Lavrov presser quotes, there are too many to quote here. You can take a look, but hopefully there will be a more concise summary incoming soon which also includes statements from Kerry and Steinmeier and others.
Seems like Self-defense forces in Lugansk have gotten themselves their first tank. A Soviet T34-85 used as a landmark in the city has had a little (ok, a bit more of a spit-shine is needed to make an 80 year old tank work) work done on it and is now operational. Don't really think it can do much if anything on the battlefield but I guess its cool to drive around in.
^Some of the phone calls have been confirmed in the independent media. For example, no-one disputes that Lukin and the head of the separatists in Slovyansk, Strelkov, spoke on the phone, that's clearly both of their voices. This shows that the SBU has the capacity to intercept some communication.
That being said, it's generally best to wait for someone from independent media to comment before accepting euromaidanpr as a source, especially on a touchy topic such as dirty bombs. So far there have been zero reports from reputable sources confirming their claim.
disclaimer: EuromaidanPR is a quasi-propaganda website (lot's of unverified/exaggerated claims. Not intentional lies, but really poor journalism).
Either way, my question is what are your thoughts on on all these SBU operations? I never was convinced that the "leaked phone calls" of FSB agents were real. Maybe they were, but it's almost impossible to verify.
The material for the "dirty bomb" sounds unreal to me. I doubt the separatists would really be trying to get their hands on it, and that basically leaves Russia as the culprit. But would Russia really want to do that? I'm sure Putin has no qualms about that sort of action, but it just seems like it wouldn't do Putin no good to use such tactics.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that I have a suscpiscion that SBU might be faking it's "achievements" in order to fabricate success and counter Russian's propaganda war.
Any thoughts? Do you we have any definitive evidence that the phone calls were false/true? Any evidence of complete fabrications from the SBU side? Please only intelligent well argued responses (with sources if possible).
A dirty bomb going off in ukraine would give putin an excuse to march on in and take over or chop it up and federalize it so that it can't do anything anymore. I would not put it past him to organize something like that, and I would not put it passed the "separatists" to use such a tactic under the assumption that if they do it big papa putin will come save them. That being said, it's still a very far stretch to assume that that was the intention or that they were really even making one, but I think it's more believable than most of the far fetched things said by the pro russia side that blatantly contradict reality.
Tymoshenko calling for the attack on WWII veterans in Odessa on the 9th of May
Oh zeo, you are so easily fooled. In the edited video she is saying "during planned sport events in Eastern and Southern Ukraine... [other part] in order to enrage Odesa it is need that the veterans are attacked."
Do you really think that Tymoshenko is that stupid to believe that Odesa will rise up if WW2 veterans get beat up by people looking like they are pro-Russian? This is beyond stupid. Everyone will blame pro-Ukrainians regardless of how attackers look like. And she is making that shrewd plan of hers in front of half a dozen cameras?
In reality that was a meeting where she was disclosing intercepted plans of pro-Russians.
She is clearly, clearly unstable though luckily has no government position.
... she confirmed the conversation EXCEPT the part where she is allegedly going to "shoot Russians [those that live in Ukraine] with nuclear weapons". First of all how do you shoot somebody with nuclear weapons? Secondly Ukraine doesn't have it. Thirdly how do you kill just Russians with nuclear weapons without killing Ukrainians?
Its not called an emotional outburst for nothing. When you get angry you just throw out words without thinking.
Edit: I highly doubt that she would press the nuke button if that nuke button was given to her. A lot of people bark but don't bite, still doesn't mean they can't be retards. Thank god she is irrelevant.
Actually she's not even very popular in Western Ukraine. That video makes for a good headline but she's not really relevant. Looking at the latest polls it seems very likely that Poroshenko would easily win the elections.
P.S. @mfa_Russia posted a ton of Lavrov presser quotes, there are too many to quote here. You can take a look, but hopefully there will be a more concise summary incoming soon which also includes statements from Kerry and Steinmeier and others.
Seems like Self-defense forces in Lugansk have gotten themselves their first tank. A Soviet T34-85 used as a landmark in the city has had a little (ok, a bit more of a spit-shine is needed to make an 80 year old tank work) work done on it and is now operational. Don't really think it can do much if anything on the battlefield but I guess its cool to drive around in.
I don't think it's operational. I didn't watch the youtube video though - can't at the moment. If it's shooting, then i take it back. If it's just moving, well - kudos for fixing it, you couldn't just unbolt a tiger from a socket and slam it a couple of times with a hammer to make it work. That means they have a movable tank now (i doubt the weaponsystem is working, or even existing anymore), which is a bit ridiculous and extremely dangerous because they give the army a target now, and a very legitimate target as well. As a civilian, i would keep at least 100m distance to that - otherwise, well - in this case, it actually is your fault then.
And yeah, it's cool to drive around in a tank, gives you a fuzzy feeling in the bottom, knowing that if you wanted, nothing could really stop you (except barbed wire).
edit: just as a sidenote, the tank on the socket in your pictures is not the tank driving around or being shown in that "fixing-picture".
Seems like Self-defense forces in Lugansk have gotten themselves their first tank. A Soviet T34-85 used as a landmark in the city has had a little (ok, a bit more of a spit-shine is needed to make an 80 year old tank work) work done on it and is now operational. Don't really think it can do much if anything on the battlefield but I guess its cool to drive around in.
I don't think it's operational. I didn't watch the youtube video though - can't at the moment. If it's shooting, then i take it back. If it's just moving, well - kudos for fixing it, you couldn't just unbolt a tiger from a socket and slam it a couple of times with a hammer to make it work. That means they have a movable tank now (i doubt the weaponsystem is working, or even existing anymore), which is a bit ridiculous and extremely dangerous because they give the army a target now, and a very legitimate target as well. As a civilian, i would keep at least 100m distance to that - otherwise, well - in this case, it actually is your fault then.
And yeah, it's cool to drive around in a tank, gives you a fuzzy feeling in the bottom, knowing that if you wanted, nothing could really stop you (except barbed wire).
edit: just as a sidenote, the tank on the socket in your pictures is not the tank driving around or being shown in that "fixing-picture".
Yeah, thanks for the link. I just posted the pictures that went with the story, didn't know it was operational for so long, interesting stuff. Highly doubt from the get-go it would be used even if they had shells, and even if it could shoot them. It's more of a 'look at this tank that woke up from it's 60 year slumber to fight fascists in Ukraine again' boosting of moral tool.
edit: I should have been more clear in my post that the self-defense forces just took it, but idk, it looks clear?
Tymoshenko calling for the attack on WWII veterans in Odessa on the 9th of May
Oh zeo, you are so easily fooled. In the edited video she is saying "during planned sport events in Eastern and Southern Ukraine... [other part] in order to enrage Odesa it is need that the veterans are attacked."
Do you really think that Tymoshenko is that stupid to believe that Odesa will rise up if WW2 veterans get beat up by people looking like they are pro-Russian? This is beyond stupid. Everyone will blame pro-Ukrainians regardless of how attackers look like. And she is making that shrewd plan of hers in front of half a dozen cameras?
In reality that was a meeting where she was disclosing intercepted plans of pro-Russians.
She is clearly, clearly unstable though luckily has no government position.
... she confirmed the conversation EXCEPT the part where she is allegedly going to "shoot Russians [those that live in Ukraine] with nuclear weapons". First of all how do you shoot somebody with nuclear weapons? Secondly Ukraine doesn't have it. Thirdly how do you kill just Russians with nuclear weapons without killing Ukrainians?
Its not called an emotional outburst for nothing. When you get angry you just throw out words without thinking.
Edit: I highly doubt that she would press the nuke button if that nuke button was given to her. A lot of people bark but don't bite, still doesn't mean they can't be retards. Thank god she is irrelevant.
Actually she's not even very popular in Western Ukraine. That video makes for a good headline but she's not really relevant. Looking at the latest polls it seems very likely that Poroshenko would easily win the elections.
P.S. @mfa_Russia posted a ton of Lavrov presser quotes, there are too many to quote here. You can take a look, but hopefully there will be a more concise summary incoming soon which also includes statements from Kerry and Steinmeier and others.
That article is pretty on point
how is that article point on? Pointing out that Germany didn't particularly like Vietnam or Iraq? Pretty sure that's a bit more common of a sentiment than it's trying to make it look like.
Germany not being very willing to send soldiers for Iraq? Who would have guessed, if half the county is still paranoid about the international community instantly going "omfg Germany sending soldiers, Nazis on the rise again! We should watch out!" due to historic reasons of course the sentiment is going to be to not get involved in ANYTHING of that sort. That hasn't anything to do with Germanys standpoint on the issue though. Heck, I was told in school that we aren't allowed to use military unless it's strictly for defensive purposes, by constitution. I don't know if that was an exaggeration by my teacher but it's pretty hard to explain why you need soldiers in Iraq for defensive purposes if that's the case.
Schröder being mentioned? Are you old enough to remember what happened when / after he was Chancellor? There was a huge shitstorm about him being corrupt with some deals with gazprom for his own sake at the very end of him being in office and weeks later he leaves Germany for a job over there. It should be pretty obvious that the guy only has been looking out for himself in the later stages and shouldn't be considered when talking about Germanys interests on any issue. Do you actually know anyone who thinks being a bit more like Russia should be the way to go? Remember Sochi and all the shit Russia got in Germany (or any 1st world nation for that matter) for that law that didn't allow "gay propaganda" or whatever it was? Sure the US get's a lot of crap in Germany, especially thanks to NSA lately, and we probably consider ourselves closer to other nations (nordic nations like Sweden/Norway/Denmark come to mind, Netherlands, heck even France despite all the love/hate banter ) but in no way does anyone want to be like Russia lol, neither on a politics level nor on a common-people-mindset level...
I have to disagree. i also think the article is really spot on. There's a lot of anti-establishment / anti transatlantic stuff coming out of the public at the moment. Liberal values aren't exactly on the rise here and in Europe in general, which is really sad. It's no coincidence that Moscow is trying to get cozy with Europe's right wing parties. In his Crimea annexation speech as well as during his TV-Interview Putin repeatedly mentioned that the "common people of Europe understand him".
Tymoshenko calling for the attack on WWII veterans in Odessa on the 9th of May
Oh zeo, you are so easily fooled. In the edited video she is saying "during planned sport events in Eastern and Southern Ukraine... [other part] in order to enrage Odesa it is need that the veterans are attacked."
Do you really think that Tymoshenko is that stupid to believe that Odesa will rise up if WW2 veterans get beat up by people looking like they are pro-Russian? This is beyond stupid. Everyone will blame pro-Ukrainians regardless of how attackers look like. And she is making that shrewd plan of hers in front of half a dozen cameras?
In reality that was a meeting where she was disclosing intercepted plans of pro-Russians.
She is clearly, clearly unstable though luckily has no government position.
... she confirmed the conversation EXCEPT the part where she is allegedly going to "shoot Russians [those that live in Ukraine] with nuclear weapons". First of all how do you shoot somebody with nuclear weapons? Secondly Ukraine doesn't have it. Thirdly how do you kill just Russians with nuclear weapons without killing Ukrainians?
Its not called an emotional outburst for nothing. When you get angry you just throw out words without thinking.
Edit: I highly doubt that she would press the nuke button if that nuke button was given to her. A lot of people bark but don't bite, still doesn't mean they can't be retards. Thank god she is irrelevant.
Actually she's not even very popular in Western Ukraine. That video makes for a good headline but she's not really relevant. Looking at the latest polls it seems very likely that Poroshenko would easily win the elections.
P.S. @mfa_Russia posted a ton of Lavrov presser quotes, there are too many to quote here. You can take a look, but hopefully there will be a more concise summary incoming soon which also includes statements from Kerry and Steinmeier and others.
That article is pretty on point
how is that article point on? Pointing out that Germany didn't particularly like Vietnam or Iraq? Pretty sure that's a bit more common of a sentiment than it's trying to make it look like.
Germany not being very willing to send soldiers for Iraq? Who would have guessed, if half the county is still paranoid about the international community instantly going "omfg Germany sending soldiers, Nazis on the rise again! We should watch out!" due to historic reasons of course the sentiment is going to be to not get involved in ANYTHING of that sort. That hasn't anything to do with Germanys standpoint on the issue though. Heck, I was told in school that we aren't allowed to use military unless it's strictly for defensive purposes, by constitution. I don't know if that was an exaggeration by my teacher but it's pretty hard to explain why you need soldiers in Iraq for defensive purposes if that's the case.
Schröder being mentioned? Are you old enough to remember what happened when / after he was Chancellor? There was a huge shitstorm about him being corrupt with some deals with gazprom for his own sake at the very end of him being in office and weeks later he leaves Germany for a job over there. It should be pretty obvious that the guy only has been looking out for himself in the later stages and shouldn't be considered when talking about Germanys interests on any issue. Do you actually know anyone who thinks being a bit more like Russia should be the way to go? Remember Sochi and all the shit Russia got in Germany (or any 1st world nation for that matter) for that law that didn't allow "gay propaganda" or whatever it was? Sure the US get's a lot of crap in Germany, especially thanks to NSA lately, and we probably consider ourselves closer to other nations (nordic nations like Sweden/Norway/Denmark come to mind, Netherlands, heck even France despite all the love/hate banter ) but in no way does anyone want to be like Russia lol, neither on a politics level nor on a common-people-mindset level...
I agree that the article went a little overboard on international relations . We are certainly not becoming friends with Putin anytime soon and neither does Israel. And I don't believe Germany or Israel will ever have a relationship with Russia similar to the one they have with the U.S nowadays. But other than that? Germany is definitely moving away from the U.S. Maybe not Merkel, but the people are,
On May 07 2014 05:34 Nyxisto wrote: I have to disagree. i also think the article is really spot on. There's a lot of anti-establishment / anti transatlantic stuff coming out of the public at the moment. Liberal values aren't exactly on the rise here and in Europe in general, which is really sad.
I'm not saying that the US is getting a lot of love over here at all and yes, there's been anti transatlantic stuff coming out of the public lately but that's to be expected after all this NSA stuff happened. People are still pretty pissed about that but as a results it's been more of a Europe should stick together rather than a Europe (or Germany) should stick to Russia, which is what the article's about and that's cometplely off mark.
You're saying "Liberal values aren't exactly on the rise here". What do you make of the Sochi thing I mentioned? The law against gays that got heavy criticism all over Europe and the US? Is that not a liberal value for you? Or when the two lesbian singers (sorry forgot their names) got arrested in Russia? That was huge over here too. The article is completly right about the US not getting a lot of love recently but also completly off the mark when stating that Germany is in any way getting closer to Russia. Russia's just getting way more crap and it's really a "EU should stick closer together" than anything else
Seems like Self-defense forces in Lugansk have gotten themselves their first tank. A Soviet T34-85 used as a landmark in the city has had a little (ok, a bit more of a spit-shine is needed to make an 80 year old tank work) work done on it and is now operational. Don't really think it can do much if anything on the battlefield but I guess its cool to drive around in.
I don't think it's operational. I didn't watch the youtube video though - can't at the moment. If it's shooting, then i take it back. If it's just moving, well - kudos for fixing it, you couldn't just unbolt a tiger from a socket and slam it a couple of times with a hammer to make it work. That means they have a movable tank now (i doubt the weaponsystem is working, or even existing anymore), which is a bit ridiculous and extremely dangerous because they give the army a target now, and a very legitimate target as well. As a civilian, i would keep at least 100m distance to that - otherwise, well - in this case, it actually is your fault then.
And yeah, it's cool to drive around in a tank, gives you a fuzzy feeling in the bottom, knowing that if you wanted, nothing could really stop you (except barbed wire).
edit: just as a sidenote, the tank on the socket in your pictures is not the tank driving around or being shown in that "fixing-picture".
Yeah, thanks for the link. I just posted the pictures that went with the story, didn't know it was operational for so long, interesting stuff. Highly doubt from the get-go it would be used even if they had shells, and even if it could shoot them. It's more of a 'look at this tank that woke up from it's 60 year slumber to fight fascists in Ukraine again' boosting of moral tool.
edit: I should have been more clear in my post that the self-defense forces just took it, but idk, it looks clear?
They can't. Even if they had shells, the tank only has the barrel, not the actual weaponsystem (think of a rifle, you only have the barrel, but none of the moving parts). It's demilitarized, meaning, most likely it's irreversible as well (filled barrel with steel, maybe even a manouver-barrel which can't fire live ammunition in the first place, that's what happens over here).
And no, it's not even "look at this tank that woke up to fight fascists again", it was going before EuroMaidan even started. Where in your sources though does it say "self defenses took it"? The yt video doesn't, at least if googletranslate isn't fooling me.
Fighting fascists.. Does it even occur to you that russia actually was "allied" with those fascists, and only fought germans because they were "doublecrossed" and attacked? Russia was extremely fine with the fascists until they attacked, never forget that little (but extremely important) fact when you get foamy again.
The article is exaggerating in it's claims that Germany might "have more in common" with Russian than America. But it does have a point about German politic being influenced by economic ties to Russia. Also, Germany is a "quiet" super-power. For all it's economic and diplomatic power, it's politically very "meek". I think their is a legitimate desire to assert itself as independent of American foreign policy, and thus the slight drift towards Russia (which the anti-American Germans justify by claiming neutrality, and the anti-Russians claim is caused by close ties to Russia).
I never think Germany will have more in common w/ Russia than the USA (democracy, human-rights, etc.). However, by excessively pushing neutrality, Germany might actually be allowing it's foreign policy to be dependent on US-foreign policy. For example, the USA is supportive for Ukraine, then Germany tries to be "neutral" on Ukraine. However, that's the US influencing Germany to be less "pro-Ukraine" than it would be otherwise.
To be clear, I get the feeling that Merkel is smart enough to be independent of such an influence, and what is causing a weak German response to Russia's actions is being bogged down by EU influence (all EU should agree on sanctions) and German-Russian economic ties.
I'm not an expert on German politics, but sometimes an outsider opinion might actually actually shed some light on a situation
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GLcJA7O.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xfK0pEm.png)
) but in no way does anyone want to be like Russia lol, neither on a politics level nor on a common-people-mindset level...
