On October 10 2013 07:35 larse wrote: iloveoov: I heard that Bisu is going to play with sAviOr in his stream, if it is true, then they are the same kind of person now. After the match fixing scandal, three b-teamers in our team went to me, cried, and asked me if it's still possible to play the game anymore.
Bisu was a progamer too, and had more successful career than those B-teamers. He had more to lose. If Bisu is able to forgive, then others should be ablo too!
On October 10 2013 18:35 Caihead wrote: You do realize that he was one of the only people in the world who can even say that he actually personally contributed to providing a reasonable environment for playing BW and getting money right? Like a decade ago? Alongside people like Boxer?
That's right, and it makes him even more responsible for such statements. Keeping BW at Afreeca until better times is better than not to do it. And criticizing this fact looks like some kind of betrayal (of teammate and retired players, forsaking them at tough times). Don't take me offensively and let's hope iloveoov didn't mean "the entire BW streaming"
On October 11 2013 02:16 BisuDagger wrote: It's time that the Church of BSports speaks out on this subject:
No temptation has seized you except what is common to probes. And Bisu is faithful; Bisu will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, Bisu will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
On October 11 2013 02:16 BisuDagger wrote: It's time that the Church of BSports speaks out on this subject:
No temptation has seized you except what is common to probes. And Bisu is faithful; Bisu will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, Bisu will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
~Book of BSports 1 BD 10:13
Ugh, give it a rest already.
You actually get it! This whole thread should give it a rest already. Why am I not making arguments, because this debate is pointless. We heard oovs opinion. We don't have to react upon it. Just accept how he feels and shape your own feelings based on his input. But trying to convince people to take different sides of the argument is pointless. The human brain should rely on the ability to make decisions based on facts. And unless facts have been left out of this discussion then we have exhuasted the arguments and need to give it a rest
On October 11 2013 02:16 BisuDagger wrote: It's time that the Church of BSports speaks out on this subject:
No temptation has seized you except what is common to probes. And Bisu is faithful; Bisu will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, Bisu will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
~Book of BSports 1 BD 10:13
Ugh, give it a rest already.
You actually get it! This whole thread should give it a rest already. Why am I not making arguments, because this debate is pointless. We heard oovs opinion. We don't have to react upon it. Just accept how he feels and shape your own feelings based on his input. But trying to convince people to take different sides of the argument is pointless. The human brain should rely on the ability to make decisions based on facts. And unless facts have been left out of this discussion then we have exhuasted the arguments and need to give it a rest
I'm pretty sure he means the obnoxious fanboying, not what ever pseudo intellectual points you wanted to make.
My interpretation (as a former active translator... which makes me a semi-inactive translator now?) is that oov didn't bash the entire personal BW streaming scene. What white_horse said in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=431676¤tpage=4#67 is correct and best aligned with the context of the entire response to that particular question.
On October 11 2013 02:16 BisuDagger wrote: It's time that the Church of BSports speaks out on this subject:
No temptation has seized you except what is common to probes. And Bisu is faithful; Bisu will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, Bisu will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
~Book of BSports 1 BD 10:13
Ugh, give it a rest already.
You actually get it! This whole thread should give it a rest already. Why am I not making arguments, because this debate is pointless. We heard oovs opinion. We don't have to react upon it. Just accept how he feels and shape your own feelings based on his input. But trying to convince people to take different sides of the argument is pointless. The human brain should rely on the ability to make decisions based on facts. And unless facts have been left out of this discussion then we have exhuasted the arguments and need to give it a rest
I'm pretty sure he means the obnoxious fanboying, not what ever pseudo intellectual points you wanted to make.
I don't know why you have it out for me lately but feel free to pm me so we can work this out instead of being passive aggressive. I am very happy Bisu is playing BW again. I'm having fun in the forums. If this has offended people then I will stop. I hope you understand I'm being over the top to have fun but I guess that can be hard to see. Ill try harder to be less visible.
Oov, always the unquestioned master of the interview :D
I don't see anything wrong with reminding poople not to play for money with sAviOr, though it's not like the Afreeca scene needs to listen to people still involved with SC2.
On October 10 2013 21:16 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:58 iFU.pauline wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:47 Pathos wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:43 Letmelose wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:30 Pathos wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:20 Letmelose wrote:
On October 10 2013 19:45 Highways wrote: Didn't sAviOr beat iloveoovs 27 win streak vs Zerg?
It was July.
Also, I'd take what iloveoov has to say with a grain of salt. He was far from exemplary himself, and always had these kind of tendencies to talk brashly without giving things too much thought. That being said, it's stupid to counter-balance that by pretending that what's past is past, and we should embrace sAviOr with open arms now. It doesn't matter if dickheads like Justin were more heavily involved in these match-fixing business, sAviOr was meant to be the chosen one, the guy everybody expected to be the next e-Sports superstar after in a manner similar to BoxeR, but instead he threw it all away, and the level of betrayal was beyond repair. I really don't know why being blase about it somehow makes people feel better, when almost every single one of us here would have much rather prefered to see the Starcraft scene flourish like in the past, rather than watch it degrade to a casual level, with a washed-up, unapologetic sell-out like sAviOr being the centre of attention. It may be overboard to witch-hunt sAviOr every single moment available, but the guy just asks to be hounded upon with his attitude, and I have nearly zero sympathy with someone who savours being the "controversial" figurehead of the community and profits off that, and brings down the level of people surrounding him. He is a cancerous being, and what started off as a simple mistake for an inexperienced kid, has evolved into something far more toxic. There's nothing about the guy right now that reminds me of the genius who gave the scene a breath of fresh air, and looked like the one who would take the scene to the next level.
As a person, I am extremely sympathetic to Savior for the reasons you gave. He probably had no interest in leading the e-sports scene. In fact, we can all agree that he received all of the negative implication from this unfairly and that many guiltier and more responsible parties were never brought to justice. For these reasons, I consider his particular situation the greatest individual tragedy.
However, my personal interest is that the afreeca streams cause a revival of interest in BW. This CANNOT happen if Savior is involved plain and simple.
He was interested in getting more pussy, getting expensive brands, and gave zero fucks about the people who looked up to him, the coach who ensured he would get the best treatment available, and the media who hyped him up as the greatest thing since sliced bread. He was extremely fortunate to get the treatment he got, and he just took everything he got for granted, and spit on the faces of the people who raised him up on a pedestal, so much so, that people today even remember more fondly on the days when he was actually good, more so than any other gamer in my recollection.
There are guys who literally gave it their all, people who stuck with their team, sharing their prize money to keep the dream alive, and what kind of credit do you think they're getting? Nothing at all. What sAviOr contributed to the scene is incredibly negligable, and the damage he caused as literally the biggest name in e-Sports behind BoxeR, and perhaps YellOw, way outscales anything he has done.
You're talking about a guy who took everything he had for granted, and used it to get more money for himself, and coerced others just for his benefit alone. And he continues to profit off his self-centred behaviour due to people who simply like these kind of stupid as fuck dramas, over the real heroes who don't bother stooping to sAviOr's level, even if it would give them the extra dough. Fuck sAviOr. People should cry over real tragedies, not this prick who wouldn't care one iota for sympathetic people such as yourself if it didn't make him a single dime richer.
I don't even feel that strongly about shutting sAviOr down, but this kind of revision of what sAviOr has done, and why he is underappreciated makes me sick to the stomach. He was a scumbag, and still is one today, and all he cares about is himself. If you want to be a bitch, and soak in all that drama, and love him for the "tragic, dark hero" like a chick, then go ahead, but please keep that to yourself, and don't post that kind of crap here.
Yes, I agree. I am merely saying that I personally am not striking out at him out of moral wrath. But for all the reasons you just mentioned, he should disappear completely from e-sports.
I personally am annoyed because I think a lot of the sympathy is the fact that foreigners idolize him as the Zerg messiah. Like literally view him as a fallen angel hero rebelling against all the Terran domination of the competitive scene.
Afreeca stream is not e-sport, being a progamer is e-sport, if you don't like the idea of Bisu streaming his game vs sAviOr then it means you don't want sAviOr (i like to type his name properly, does it bother you? i hope it does) to be on Afreeca and that goes farther than just talking about e-sport. Haterz like you are the reason why sAviOr is so popular now, giving too much attention to a matter that is no more, transparency is the best at this point, it's not relevant to talk about this drama, the more you give importance the more you end up with thread like this. LIKE WE FUCKIN CARE SERIOUSLY ABOUT OOV OPINION ON WHY BISU WOULD PLAY SAVIOR? You haterz are the only one that care in fact.
For the most part people are happy with the status quo, savior does what he wants, everyone ignores him. We would like for it to stay that way, as such we prefer if other players also ignored him. There really isn't much drama at all from the 'haterz', since we pretty much have what we want.
Actually, it is not really "most" but almost "half" of people, and since you hold such statement you should make more friends among bw community REMAINING players... Just so you know how many people really care about keeping sAviOr stream under ban... You will be surprised how many would prefer to have his stream showing on TL. Also what you guys prefer for us we are not supposed to care either, I prefer to watch his stream than any other zerg gotcha? :/ and in no way you should be satisfied that I can't, coze im crippled because of ppl like you that can't make a difference between a game and a person. Which I can, in case you want me to teach you how to do, it will help you...
This!
I have always been a CJ fan but I first and foremost love to see good games. sAviOr did what he did and got punished accordingly. But he was a gifted player regardless and produced some of the best games I ever seen. My point is I would love to see sAviOr playing now (in a non professional setup obviously) and I would watch his stream if he had any!
On October 11 2013 02:16 BisuDagger wrote: It's time that the Church of BSports speaks out on this subject:
No temptation has seized you except what is common to probes. And Bisu is faithful; Bisu will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, Bisu will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
~Book of BSports 1 BD 10:13
Ugh, give it a rest already.
You actually get it! This whole thread should give it a rest already. Why am I not making arguments, because this debate is pointless. We heard oovs opinion. We don't have to react upon it. Just accept how he feels and shape your own feelings based on his input. But trying to convince people to take different sides of the argument is pointless. The human brain should rely on the ability to make decisions based on facts. And unless facts have been left out of this discussion then we have exhuasted the arguments and need to give it a rest
I'm pretty sure he means the obnoxious fanboying, not what ever pseudo intellectual points you wanted to make.
either people are ignorant or they actually think players and fans should be lenient towards savior.
dude is an absolute piece of garbage. he organized the entire scheme, ripped off his fellow player collaborators, made a fucking half assed apology and then started streaming bw for profit immediately one month later. he uses his fans for luxury products and is an egotistical little shit.
he's had years to give an actual apology and present actions that reflect remorse. he's beyond forgiveness.
On October 11 2013 04:25 Gamegene wrote: either people are ignorant or they actually think players and fans should be lenient towards savior.
dude is an absolute piece of garbage. he organized the entire scheme, ripped off his fellow player collaborators, made a fucking half assed apology and then started streaming bw for profit immediately one month later. he uses his fans for luxury products and is an egotistical little shit.
he's had years to give an actual apology and present actions that reflect remorse. he's beyond forgiveness.
is there a thread or sth on this "apology" youre talking about? i really would like to read that
On October 11 2013 04:25 Gamegene wrote: either people are ignorant or they actually think players and fans should be lenient towards savior.
dude is an absolute piece of garbage. he organized the entire scheme, ripped off his fellow player collaborators, made a fucking half assed apology and then started streaming bw for profit immediately one month later. he uses his fans for luxury products and is an egotistical little shit.
he's had years to give an actual apology and present actions that reflect remorse. he's beyond forgiveness.
Okay, you don't like MJY and you don't like one statement he made 3 years ago (although you apparently believe that a full-assed apology would be better, even if you have no way of knowing how sincere it is because you're probably not a telepath), that's a fair opinion to have, but what does it have to do with iloveoov shitting on Bisu as soon as he retires?
so my point stands... iloveoov is right about asking bisu and others not to play this scumbag if i recall correctly, he was convicted of paying the players out their winnings for throwing matches so thats bullshit with his "i only told my friends and had a bad influence but thats it"
On October 11 2013 04:25 Gamegene wrote: either people are ignorant or they actually think players and fans should be lenient towards savior.
dude is an absolute piece of garbage. he organized the entire scheme, ripped off his fellow player collaborators, made a fucking half assed apology and then started streaming bw for profit immediately one month later. he uses his fans for luxury products and is an egotistical little shit.
he's had years to give an actual apology and present actions that reflect remorse. he's beyond forgiveness.
Okay, you don't like MJY and you don't like one statement he made 3 years ago (although you apparently believe that a full-assed apology would be better, even if you have no way of knowing how sincere it is because you're probably not a telepath), that's a fair opinion to have, but what does it have to do with iloveoov shitting on Bisu as soon as he retires?
wasnt savior convicted of more than just telling other players about the offers in this scandal? because thats just what he apologized for
Bisu plays friendly match with Savior -> Bisu + Savior BFFs -> Savior bad for e-sports -> Bisu bad for e-sports
Retired pros play on Afreeca -> Savior plays on Afreeca -> Savior bad for e-sports -> All retired players on Afreeca bad for e-sports
I doubt he really means this, I don't think even if I stopped taking my meds I could come up with such impressively delusional logic. I'm guessing since Kespa is somewhat responsible for his salary the interview should be taken with a grain of salt. Don't get me wrong Saviors a scumbag but to lump all of Afreeca in with him is stupid. Or maybe OOV is just so old now he doesn't understand how it works.
On October 11 2013 04:44 AssiRoyal wrote:
wasnt savior convicted of more than just telling other players about the offers in this scandal? because thats just what he apologized for
allegedly he was also skimming off (taking some) of the money he was supposed to give to the players. No honor among thieves. It would also imply that he was the middleman in all of this.
On October 11 2013 04:25 Gamegene wrote: either people are ignorant or they actually think players and fans should be lenient towards savior.
dude is an absolute piece of garbage. he organized the entire scheme, ripped off his fellow player collaborators, made a fucking half assed apology and then started streaming bw for profit immediately one month later. he uses his fans for luxury products and is an egotistical little shit.
he's had years to give an actual apology and present actions that reflect remorse. he's beyond forgiveness.
Okay, you don't like MJY and you don't like one statement he made 3 years ago (although you apparently believe that a full-assed apology would be better, even if you have no way of knowing how sincere it is because you're probably not a telepath), that's a fair opinion to have, but what does it have to do with iloveoov shitting on Bisu as soon as he retires?
^The fact that people want to defend sAviOr and verbally shit on iloveoov just because iloveoov has a justified opinion they disagree with, as well as the fact that Bisu, still a hero to many, may be going to play games with (and effective indirectly endorse others doing so) said person who manipulated, pressured and stained the Brood War scene.
People are basically expected to continue shunning sAviOr for what he did, so Bisu playing with him is like forgiving sAviOr and endorsing other people forgiving sAviOr. iloveoov happens to be one of many people strongly opposed to this.
oov is not shitting on Bisu (nor the BW-streaming folks on Afreeca) people -_-;;
He's saying with a big IF. IF Bisu plays with Savior on public stream it'll put Bisu at the same level [of maturity / consciousness] as Savior, etc. oov answered the question based on what he heard/read, the article doesn't indicate an exact source of his information. Then oov also says he got mad [at himself] for even imagining such a thing, then finishes the response with "I sincerely hope that it doesn't happen."
Is there even proof that Bisu has already, is scheduled to, or was planning to play with Savior?
EPT
