On October 10 2013 17:27 Stratos wrote: Thanks to Savior's greed, the scene that's left today can only support so many players. I would like those who talk about forgiving Savior to think about that and realize that they're supporting the guy who helped destroy the careers of many young players who looked up to him as their senior and hero.
The effects of the scandal are blown way out of proportion in the big picture. There is literally zero indication that anything would be different today if match fixing had not happened. The players involved destroyed mostly their own careers and little else.
There is more than enough indication that it played some role in gathering sponsorship for the leagues that were to follow. Whether the indications are correct or the main cause was different is up for discussion, but you don't expect me to do the work for you and provide the sources if all you do is give random statements like that, right? I don't want to have that discussion anyway.
The simple truth is that Savior's actions caused some amount of damage to the entirety of the Brood War scene. I couldn't care less about exact numbers, but as it is, I find him still milking the remaining scene absurd and crude. That's all I have to say on this matter, I'll be leaving the discussion now as I hope it dies away sooner rather than later and Savior finally moves on.
All the heavyweight sponsors continued supporting BW for up to 2 years after the match fixing scandal. That alone invalidates your point.
If the Telecoms, Samsung and Shinhan Bank thought that there's nothing wrong with supporting the scene post-matchfixing and continued to actively associate their brands with Brood War as if nothing bad ever happened, matchfixing would obviously not be enough to deter any other company from entering the scene if they ever had any intent of doing so.
It's just convenient to dump everything on one guy's back and pretend the future would have been all milk and honey if only he hadn't done what he did. MBC would still be a gaming channel, Kespa would have never taken all the teams and players over to SC2, and nobody in Korea would give a shit about League of Legends today.
thats pretty much the fucking truth when it comes to business, from my own personal experience, koreans always act like douches and hypocrits
what oov said is so so so korean ....
Do you have to bash Koreans every other sentence? Tone it down please.
i'm so sorry to despise korean culture and dismiss it as a whole, because there's nothing really to gloat about in it and hardly anything's worthwhile to keep (maybe the food ?)
lol you're such a bigot, there's good and bad in korean culture. Respect for elders and community, service, eating together and the respect for teachers and the law just to name a few. There's bad shit too but there are negatives with any culture.
hahaah what you just mentioned as the "good" traits is basically what i despise now i understand where you ppl stand deep right into the national propaganda that did so much wrong and made so many ppl suffer in korea i know what i'm talking first hand and you obviously don't sir
User was banned for this post. Requested via PM.
you people? you have something against brood war players?
Of course Savior needed to be punished and he was, rightfully so, and he shouldn't ever be allowed into professional gaming again. But professional BW is gone now, and afreeca streaming isn't anything close to professional gaming.
Pretty trashy PR move by oov. You can't shit on bisu publicly for something he didn't even do yet. As I recall he was asked and then refused. If oov cares that much he can message bisu privately, or at least not call him out in a media interview where he's not around to defend himself. It's really throwing him under the bus, and that's bullshit.
Not really sure what he was thinking here. As for condemning all of the ex pros who went to play BW, however that was translated as either an insinuation or a fairly direct opinion, that's greedy and he has no right to complain that lots of people still enjoy BW and it's a viable thing to stream on afreeca.
On October 11 2013 01:13 Chef wrote: Pretty trashy PR move by oov. You can't shit on bisu publicly for something he didn't even do yet. As I recall he was asked and then refused. If oov cares that much he can message bisu privately, or at least not call him out in a media interview where he's not around to defend himself. It's really throwing him under the bus, and that's bullshit.
Not really sure what he was thinking here. As for condemning all of the ex pros who went to play BW, however that was translated as either an insinuation or a fairly direct opinion, that's greedy and he has no right to complain that lots of people still enjoy BW and it's a viable thing to stream on afreeca.
Good read. Giving people a hard time for something they have yet to do is just pathetic. oov lost all my respect with this interview.. just sad..
On October 10 2013 19:45 Highways wrote: Didn't sAviOr beat iloveoovs 27 win streak vs Zerg?
It was July.
Also, I'd take what iloveoov has to say with a grain of salt. He was far from exemplary himself, and always had these kind of tendencies to talk brashly without giving things too much thought. That being said, it's stupid to counter-balance that by pretending that what's past is past, and we should embrace sAviOr with open arms now. It doesn't matter if dickheads like Justin were more heavily involved in these match-fixing business, sAviOr was meant to be the chosen one, the guy everybody expected to be the next e-Sports superstar after in a manner similar to BoxeR, but instead he threw it all away, and the level of betrayal was beyond repair. I really don't know why being blase about it somehow makes people feel better, when almost every single one of us here would have much rather prefered to see the Starcraft scene flourish like in the past, rather than watch it degrade to a casual level, with a washed-up, unapologetic sell-out like sAviOr being the centre of attention. It may be overboard to witch-hunt sAviOr every single moment available, but the guy just asks to be hounded upon with his attitude, and I have nearly zero sympathy with someone who savours being the "controversial" figurehead of the community and profits off that, and brings down the level of people surrounding him. He is a cancerous being, and what started off as a simple mistake for an inexperienced kid, has evolved into something far more toxic. There's nothing about the guy right now that reminds me of the genius who gave the scene a breath of fresh air, and looked like the one who would take the scene to the next level.
As a person, I am extremely sympathetic to Savior for the reasons you gave. He probably had no interest in leading the e-sports scene. In fact, we can all agree that he received all of the negative implication from this unfairly and that many guiltier and more responsible parties were never brought to justice. For these reasons, I consider his particular situation the greatest individual tragedy.
However, my personal interest is that the afreeca streams cause a revival of interest in BW. This CANNOT happen if Savior is involved plain and simple.
He was interested in getting more pussy, getting expensive brands, and gave zero fucks about the people who looked up to him, the coach who ensured he would get the best treatment available, and the media who hyped him up as the greatest thing since sliced bread. He was extremely fortunate to get the treatment he got, and he just took everything he got for granted, and spit on the faces of the people who raised him up on a pedestal, so much so, that people today even remember more fondly on the days when he was actually good, more so than any other gamer in my recollection.
There are guys who literally gave it their all, people who stuck with their team, sharing their prize money to keep the dream alive, and what kind of credit do you think they're getting? Nothing at all. What sAviOr contributed to the scene is incredibly negligable, and the damage he caused as literally the biggest name in e-Sports behind BoxeR, and perhaps YellOw, way outscales anything he has done.
You're talking about a guy who took everything he had for granted, and used it to get more money for himself, and coerced others just for his benefit alone. And he continues to profit off his self-centred behaviour due to people who simply like these kind of stupid as fuck dramas, over the real heroes who don't bother stooping to sAviOr's level, even if it would give them the extra dough. Fuck sAviOr. People should cry over real tragedies, not this prick who wouldn't care one iota for sympathetic people such as yourself if it didn't make him a single dime richer.
I don't even feel that strongly about shutting sAviOr down, but this kind of revision of what sAviOr has done, and why he is underappreciated makes me sick to the stomach. He was a scumbag, and still is one today, and all he cares about is himself. If you want to be a bitch, and soak in all that drama, and love him for the "tragic, dark hero" like a chick, then go ahead, but please keep that to yourself, and don't post that kind of crap here.
Yes, I agree. I am merely saying that I personally am not striking out at him out of moral wrath. But for all the reasons you just mentioned, he should disappear completely from e-sports.
I personally am annoyed because I think a lot of the sympathy is the fact that foreigners idolize him as the Zerg messiah. Like literally view him as a fallen angel hero rebelling against all the Terran domination of the competitive scene.
Afreeca stream is not e-sport, being a progamer is e-sport, if you don't like the idea of Bisu streaming his game vs sAviOr then it means you don't want sAviOr (i like to type his name properly, does it bother you? i hope it does) to be on Afreeca and that goes farther than just talking about e-sport. Haterz like you are the reason why sAviOr is so popular now, giving too much attention to a matter that is no more, transparency is the best at this point, it's not relevant to talk about this drama, the more you give importance the more you end up with thread like this. LIKE WE FUCKIN CARE SERIOUSLY ABOUT OOV OPINION ON WHY BISU WOULD PLAY SAVIOR? You haterz are the only one that care in fact.
For the most part people are happy with the status quo, savior does what he wants, everyone ignores him. We would like for it to stay that way, as such we prefer if other players also ignored him. There really isn't much drama at all from the 'haterz', since we pretty much have what we want.
Actually, it is not really "most" but almost "half" of people, and since you hold such statement you should make more friends among bw community REMAINING players... Just so you know how many people really care about keeping sAviOr stream under ban... You will be surprised how many would prefer to have his stream showing on TL. Also what you guys prefer for us we are not supposed to care either, I prefer to watch his stream than any other zerg gotcha? :/ and in no way you should be satisfied that I can't, coze im crippled because of ppl like you that can't make a difference between a game and a person. Which I can, in case you want me to teach you how to do, it will help you...
On October 10 2013 21:16 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:58 iFU.pauline wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:47 Pathos wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:43 Letmelose wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:30 Pathos wrote:
On October 10 2013 20:20 Letmelose wrote:
On October 10 2013 19:45 Highways wrote: Didn't sAviOr beat iloveoovs 27 win streak vs Zerg?
It was July.
Also, I'd take what iloveoov has to say with a grain of salt. He was far from exemplary himself, and always had these kind of tendencies to talk brashly without giving things too much thought. That being said, it's stupid to counter-balance that by pretending that what's past is past, and we should embrace sAviOr with open arms now. It doesn't matter if dickheads like Justin were more heavily involved in these match-fixing business, sAviOr was meant to be the chosen one, the guy everybody expected to be the next e-Sports superstar after in a manner similar to BoxeR, but instead he threw it all away, and the level of betrayal was beyond repair. I really don't know why being blase about it somehow makes people feel better, when almost every single one of us here would have much rather prefered to see the Starcraft scene flourish like in the past, rather than watch it degrade to a casual level, with a washed-up, unapologetic sell-out like sAviOr being the centre of attention. It may be overboard to witch-hunt sAviOr every single moment available, but the guy just asks to be hounded upon with his attitude, and I have nearly zero sympathy with someone who savours being the "controversial" figurehead of the community and profits off that, and brings down the level of people surrounding him. He is a cancerous being, and what started off as a simple mistake for an inexperienced kid, has evolved into something far more toxic. There's nothing about the guy right now that reminds me of the genius who gave the scene a breath of fresh air, and looked like the one who would take the scene to the next level.
As a person, I am extremely sympathetic to Savior for the reasons you gave. He probably had no interest in leading the e-sports scene. In fact, we can all agree that he received all of the negative implication from this unfairly and that many guiltier and more responsible parties were never brought to justice. For these reasons, I consider his particular situation the greatest individual tragedy.
However, my personal interest is that the afreeca streams cause a revival of interest in BW. This CANNOT happen if Savior is involved plain and simple.
He was interested in getting more pussy, getting expensive brands, and gave zero fucks about the people who looked up to him, the coach who ensured he would get the best treatment available, and the media who hyped him up as the greatest thing since sliced bread. He was extremely fortunate to get the treatment he got, and he just took everything he got for granted, and spit on the faces of the people who raised him up on a pedestal, so much so, that people today even remember more fondly on the days when he was actually good, more so than any other gamer in my recollection.
There are guys who literally gave it their all, people who stuck with their team, sharing their prize money to keep the dream alive, and what kind of credit do you think they're getting? Nothing at all. What sAviOr contributed to the scene is incredibly negligable, and the damage he caused as literally the biggest name in e-Sports behind BoxeR, and perhaps YellOw, way outscales anything he has done.
You're talking about a guy who took everything he had for granted, and used it to get more money for himself, and coerced others just for his benefit alone. And he continues to profit off his self-centred behaviour due to people who simply like these kind of stupid as fuck dramas, over the real heroes who don't bother stooping to sAviOr's level, even if it would give them the extra dough. Fuck sAviOr. People should cry over real tragedies, not this prick who wouldn't care one iota for sympathetic people such as yourself if it didn't make him a single dime richer.
I don't even feel that strongly about shutting sAviOr down, but this kind of revision of what sAviOr has done, and why he is underappreciated makes me sick to the stomach. He was a scumbag, and still is one today, and all he cares about is himself. If you want to be a bitch, and soak in all that drama, and love him for the "tragic, dark hero" like a chick, then go ahead, but please keep that to yourself, and don't post that kind of crap here.
Yes, I agree. I am merely saying that I personally am not striking out at him out of moral wrath. But for all the reasons you just mentioned, he should disappear completely from e-sports.
I personally am annoyed because I think a lot of the sympathy is the fact that foreigners idolize him as the Zerg messiah. Like literally view him as a fallen angel hero rebelling against all the Terran domination of the competitive scene.
Afreeca stream is not e-sport, being a progamer is e-sport, if you don't like the idea of Bisu streaming his game vs sAviOr then it means you don't want sAviOr (i like to type his name properly, does it bother you? i hope it does) to be on Afreeca and that goes farther than just talking about e-sport. Haterz like you are the reason why sAviOr is so popular now, giving too much attention to a matter that is no more, transparency is the best at this point, it's not relevant to talk about this drama, the more you give importance the more you end up with thread like this. LIKE WE FUCKIN CARE SERIOUSLY ABOUT OOV OPINION ON WHY BISU WOULD PLAY SAVIOR? You haterz are the only one that care in fact.
For the most part people are happy with the status quo, savior does what he wants, everyone ignores him. We would like for it to stay that way, as such we prefer if other players also ignored him. There really isn't much drama at all from the 'haterz', since we pretty much have what we want.
Actually, it is not really "most" but almost "half" of people, and since you hold such statement you should make more friends among bw community REMAINING players... Just so you know how many people really care about keeping sAviOr stream under ban... You will be surprised how many would prefer to have his stream showing on TL. Also what you guys prefer for us we are not supposed to care either, I prefer to watch his stream than any other zerg gotcha? :/ and in no way you should be satisfied that I can't, coze im crippled because of ppl like you that can't make a difference between a game and a person. Which I can, in case you want me to teach you how to do, it will help you...
This!
I have always been a CJ fan but I first and foremost love to see good games. sAviOr did what he did and got punished accordingly. But he was a gifted player regardless and produced some of the best games I ever seen. My point is I would love to see sAviOr playing now (in a non professional setup obviously) and I would watch his stream if he had any!
On October 10 2013 19:04 zeo wrote: Wow oov, must be really hard on everyone that a dead game with no pro scene forced to go underground has more viewers that your 'esport'. So sad that its 'hurting esports' if you are just better than sc2....
These players are fucking retired, if someone was banned from baseball for doping the guy can still play in his backyard, or teach kids how to play. Get over it.
Say someone was banned from baseball for doping, not only so but he was the organizer for distributing a culture of doping in not only his team but with in many other rising stars in other major teams, say someone was caught for doping but refuses to even acknowledge or apologize for the fact that he was doping, say someone gets banned professionally but still makes money from the exact sport he was banned from, say someone who was banned professionally is trying to play with former clean retirees for personal fame and money, etc etc etc etc.
On October 10 2013 19:08 Operations wrote: sc2 supporters aren't much better than match fixers. iloveoov should shut his mouth
iloveoov probably fought longer and harder for BW than you have graced the internet with your posts.
And it doesn't justify his recent string of inflammatory comments. The doping baseball player has every damn right to make money how he sees fit if people are willing to give it to him. Literally no one is hurt by him doing it. Bisu isn't going to contract the plague playing with Savior and then spread it to the viewers. If it's such an abomination to see them play, don't watch. Sadly, Oov is probably upset by the fact that people will watch anyways because it's such a benign issue to throw a tantrum over.
Just because Savior committed wrongdoings doesn't mean we should all hate him forever. Especially not people who have a positive relationship with him.
It's time that the Church of BSports speaks out on this subject:
No temptation has seized you except what is common to probes. And Bisu is faithful; Bisu will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, Bisu will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
On October 11 2013 02:16 BisuDagger wrote: It's time that the Church of BSports speaks out on this subject:
No temptation has seized you except what is common to probes. And Bisu is faithful; Bisu will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, Bisu will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
EPT
Like sAviOr did 3 years ago... oops...
