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On February 03 2018 02:44 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:39 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. And yet the Republicans opted to suppress the democrats memo and not allow the FBI to draft an memo themselves. People are going to see exactly what they want to see in this memo, which was always the goal. This is appealing to the mob at its finest. On February 03 2018 02:39 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:32 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 02:26 MrUniverse wrote:
So, the Clinton campaign/DNC worked with a foreign spy to develop a salacious and phony dossier on Donald Trump, gave the dossier to the FBI and they used it to open an investigation and obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign members. Unreal. No. They hired a firm to preform opposition research and they hired the former British spy. That spy turned up some stuff that he felt should go right to the FBI and handed it over. He never involved the DNC or Clinton camp in that decision. The FBI was already aware of a lot of the things the spy told them and used what he provided as supporting documentation for their FISA warrant renewal. The important part is that the FISA warrant was issued long before the spy was ever involved. The FBI was already on the case without any involvement from that spy, and Clinton/the DNC by extension. Not entirely sure of that. a quick google check says the Steele dossier was send to the FBI in June '16 while the investigation to Trump's team began in July '16. Unless Page was under surveillance before that the initial FISA warrant could reference the dossier. I believe that is the case. That Carter Page was doing some weird stuff and they pulled as FISA warrant on him. The renewal came with the Steele dossier. The Democrat memo is currently undergoing the same process this one did. The GOP members of the committee even voted to make it available to the whole House, as I recall.
The standard practice since the committee has existed is to issue both memos at the same time if there is opposition and allow for a memo to be written by the agency in question. Nunes has done away with that process and released his memo without the opposition response or comment from the FBI/Justice. And this is the first time this specific law has been employed for declassifying parts of the memo. They have done away with all the standard practices for this Memo.
And again, Nunes was part of the transition team and is a huge Trump supporter.
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On February 03 2018 02:42 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:39 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2018 02:37 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. We have numerous sources (anonymous, but they always are with ongoing classified investigations) that the FBI was aware of information in the Steele Dossier. And multiple foreign intelligence agencies reached out with information on a connection between Trumps team and Russia. But obviously a one sided memo drafted as a political attack ad makes no mention of that... Here's the problem with those "anonymous sources:" McCabe and Comey are both on record essentially saying that they don't matter per my comments above. McCabe testified that the dossier was the sine qua non for the FISA warrant and its renewals. And Comey said that the dossier was bullshit. I don't see a lot of room for independent verification. Is McCabe's testimony public knowledge or just from this memo (and therefor completely unreliable)
Look at paragraph 4 of the memo. It cites McCabes testimony in a closed session to the committee from December 2017. With regards to verification of the dossier, it also states that verification was in its "infancy" per the FBI's counterintelligence director at the time that the FISA application was made.
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By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that?
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On February 03 2018 02:52 a_flayer wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that?
For the same reason that he leaked shit to the press — he is not a law enforcement official without a political agenda.
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On February 03 2018 02:52 a_flayer wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that?
He is pissed at how he was fired and talks shit when he can
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On February 03 2018 02:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:52 a_flayer wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that? For the same reason that he leaked shit to the press — he is not a law enforcement official without a political agenda.
What did he leak?
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On February 03 2018 02:51 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:42 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:39 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2018 02:37 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. We have numerous sources (anonymous, but they always are with ongoing classified investigations) that the FBI was aware of information in the Steele Dossier. And multiple foreign intelligence agencies reached out with information on a connection between Trumps team and Russia. But obviously a one sided memo drafted as a political attack ad makes no mention of that... Here's the problem with those "anonymous sources:" McCabe and Comey are both on record essentially saying that they don't matter per my comments above. McCabe testified that the dossier was the sine qua non for the FISA warrant and its renewals. And Comey said that the dossier was bullshit. I don't see a lot of room for independent verification. Is McCabe's testimony public knowledge or just from this memo (and therefor completely unreliable) Look at paragraph 4 of the memo. It cites McCabes testimony in a closed session to the committee from December 2017. With regards to verification of the dossier, it also states that verification was in its "infancy" per the FBI's counterintelligence director at the time that the FISA application was made.
That part of the memo is interesting because it completely omits how much of the dossier was used in the application and that it was submitted to a judge. To people who don’t understand what a FISA warrant is and the process, it would seem that the dossier itself was the entire application.
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On February 03 2018 02:51 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:42 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:39 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2018 02:37 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. We have numerous sources (anonymous, but they always are with ongoing classified investigations) that the FBI was aware of information in the Steele Dossier. And multiple foreign intelligence agencies reached out with information on a connection between Trumps team and Russia. But obviously a one sided memo drafted as a political attack ad makes no mention of that... Here's the problem with those "anonymous sources:" McCabe and Comey are both on record essentially saying that they don't matter per my comments above. McCabe testified that the dossier was the sine qua non for the FISA warrant and its renewals. And Comey said that the dossier was bullshit. I don't see a lot of room for independent verification. Is McCabe's testimony public knowledge or just from this memo (and therefor completely unreliable) Look at paragraph 4 of the memo. It cites McCabes testimony in a closed session to the committee from December 2017. With regards to verification of the dossier, it also states that verification was in its "infancy" per the FBI's counterintelligence director at the time that the FISA application was made.
So one sided from a known partisan hack.
I will ignore it until reliable evidence is produced. Its easy to take things out of context and omit further clarification that completely changes the point made.
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So looks like the Republican trump cronies released a giant nothingburger and now theit base is foaming at the mouth saying this will finally end that pesky investigation into their dear leader?
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On February 03 2018 02:52 a_flayer wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that?
As long as he doesn’t reveal details about the investigation itself, he can make comments about whatever he wants. It should be noted that most FBI directors say nothing until they are out of office for a very long time.
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On February 03 2018 02:52 a_flayer wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that?
The man was fired in an attempt to obstruct the investigation on which he comments.
He was widely regarded by his employees who have been under constant attack since by their boss and are unable to publicly defend themselves while the President tried to drag them through the mud for doing their job.
I imagine a fair few of them care very much for the support Comey is showing them in what must be a hard time.
Ideally he wouldn't be doing this.
But ideally the President shouldn't be in an investigation for connections to a hostile foreign government, nor fire the FBI director over a refuse to 'kiss the ring'.
*shrug* its not an ideal world.
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As predicted, the memo uses rhetoric to create outright PROVEN falsehoods about FBI agents and the like.
For example, in the same footnote where they mention that there were reasons for surveillance that aren't associated with the dossier, this "memo" just casually purports that Peter Strzok and Lisa Page were "pro-Hillary". And this is just an outright lie that anyone who has read the actual texts knows is lie. They didn't like Hillary or Trump. I think Peter even mentions voting for the conservative 3rd party candidate.
This memo just claims a bias without any proof. One that we've actually heard before. The memo doesn't mention that Peter Strzok is not a Democrat. It purports the opposite, in fact. And that's an easily disproven lie.
Nothing in the memo proves the FISA was political or that Carter Page (are you kidding me?) is a victim of unfair surveillance.
The thing reads like a Breitbart article.
And for this, you rejected the requests of the FBI and DoJ? For this? This is rock-fucking-bottom.
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On February 03 2018 03:00 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:52 a_flayer wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that? The man was fired in an attempt to obstruct the investigation on which he comments. He was widely regarded by his employees who have been under constant attack since by their boss and are unable to publicly defend themselves while the President tried to drag them through the mud for doing their job. I imagine a fair few of them care very much for the support Comey is showing them in what must be a hard time.
But he's not helping. He's just - and look at xDaunt's response to my post for proof - causing more trouble for the FBIs image in the eyes of the Americans that voted for Trump. Despite the fact that he pushed the election towards Trump by his blundering just before the elections. I guess the man just can't help himself.
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Am I crazy or is this whole thing one big fallacy? Who cares if he is biased? The FBI and FISA judge are evidence based parties and would look to confirm the information, which is what it seems the FBI did. They found that some of it was inaccurate/unknown and some corroborated what they had found.
Why does it matter WHO and WHY the information was given? Hell, Hillary herself could have gone to the FBI and it wouldn't change the validitity of any facts presented.
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On February 03 2018 03:03 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 03:00 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:52 a_flayer wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that? The man was fired in an attempt to obstruct the investigation on which he comments. He was widely regarded by his employees who have been under constant attack since by their boss and are unable to publicly defend themselves while the President tried to drag them through the mud for doing their job. I imagine a fair few of them care very much for the support Comey is showing them in what must be a hard time. But he's not helping. He's just - and look at xDaunt's response to my post for proof - causing more trouble for the FBIs image in the eyes of the Americans that voted for Trump. Despite the fact that he pushed the election towards Trump by his blundering just before the elections. I guess the man just can't help himself.
the ones who voted for trump are lost to their own madness; no reality can get through to them, no action will appear clean to them, no matter how well it's done.
also, ti's quite understandble when people try to destroy the country that you get angry at them.
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On February 03 2018 03:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Am I crazy or is this whole thing one big fallacy? Who cares if he is biased? The FBI and FISA judge are evidence based parties and would look to confirm the information, which is what it seems the FBI did. They found that some of it was inaccurate/unknown and some corroborated what they had found.
Why does it matter WHO and WHY the information was given? Hell, Hillary herself could have gone to the FBI and it wouldn't change the validitity of any facts presented.
Because we live in a post facts nation.
Remember what Newt said during one of the debates. People feel like crime is up and the economy is worse... And when the reporter said but those things just are not true. The economy is better and crime is down Newt said it did not matter because thats how people felt.
It's like the tax cuts and people thinking that a large majority of people are not getting them. Facts don't matter anymore, it's only how you feel about things that matters
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Comey's tweets doesn't name names, it's only bias is for 19th century authors and sanctimony. Yes, he commented on the FBI -- he is their ex-Director. You actually you think he shouldn't be allowed to comment on the FBI, even when all he is saying is a simple platitude? You guys just need to reel this shit in.
This might surprise Republicans: But FBI personnel are human beings, and they have the right to an opinion. Mueller, Comey, et al, are often at colleges and fundraising events, where they're given a microphone. And they just talk. It's allowed. Did you know that?
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On February 03 2018 02:33 Introvert wrote:
I'm no FISA expert (nor is anyone here) but points 2 and 3 seem the most important.
What is interesting about FISA is that they're almost never denied. I'm not sure if this means applications are only submitted when the backing information is obviously there or if they just hand them out like candy though.
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On February 03 2018 03:03 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 03:00 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:52 a_flayer wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Comey is commenting on politics & events surrounding the FBI at all? You'd think he'd have a gag order or at least common sense to abstain from the situation considering his previous position. Right? Am I crazy for thinking that? The man was fired in an attempt to obstruct the investigation on which he comments. He was widely regarded by his employees who have been under constant attack since by their boss and are unable to publicly defend themselves while the President tried to drag them through the mud for doing their job. I imagine a fair few of them care very much for the support Comey is showing them in what must be a hard time. But he's not helping. He's just - and look at xDaunt's response to my post for proof - causing more trouble for the FBIs image in the eyes of the Americans that voted for Trump. Despite the fact that he pushed the election towards Trump by his blundering just before the elections. I guess the man just can't help himself.
Right, the problem to the FBI's image is Comey supporting the people under attack by their boss. And not the boss trying to drag the agency through the mud because they are investigating him...
He pushed the election towards Trump by doing his duty, Correcting a testimony he made that the investigation was closed when it was briefly re-opened. You can go back in this thread to find me saying the same thing when it originally came out.
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