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On February 03 2018 02:26 MrUniverse wrote:
So, the Clinton campaign/DNC worked with a foreign spy to develop a salacious and phony dossier on Donald Trump, gave the dossier to the FBI and they used it to open an investigation and obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign members. Unreal.
sounds like you haven't followed the case at all if you think that's what happened. or you've been readin gsome right-wing bubble nonsense explanations of it rather than anythin resembling the truth or reasonable reporting.
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I'm no FISA expert (nor is anyone here) but points 2 and 3 seem the most important.
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On February 03 2018 02:26 MrUniverse wrote:
So, the Clinton campaign/DNC worked with a foreign spy to develop a salacious and phony dossier on Donald Trump, gave the dossier to the FBI and they used it to open an investigation and obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign members. Unreal.
I .... I am not sure how you got that ...... but okay
let's break this down.
Idk if worked with is the right word, hired is the better one but thats really not important
The dossier has been proven true in some parts and false in others. Going because some parts are false all parts are false is wrong, but I can see why you would be less likely to trust parts to be true.
They used the information that was true, and corroborated by other sources to spy on carter page, and afaik that info they spied on him for was proven true from the spying.
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Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership.
Here's the memo.
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Nope, I haven't seen any sourced material either. Also this memo isn't "devastating" as the the republicans made it seem. I think Lymoon put it in words for me.
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Where is the info that was bad for national security?
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On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo.
I can't read the memo right now (the site is down, probably from traffic) Can you sum up what is different between the memo and the points you posted earlier? Because if there is no real difference this seems like a giant nothing
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On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo.
We have numerous sources (anonymous, but they always are with ongoing classified investigations) that the FBI was aware of information in the Steele Dossier. And multiple foreign intelligence agencies reached out with information on a connection between Trumps team and Russia.
But obviously a one sided memo drafted as a political attack ad makes no mention of that...
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On February 03 2018 02:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:26 MrUniverse wrote:
So, the Clinton campaign/DNC worked with a foreign spy to develop a salacious and phony dossier on Donald Trump, gave the dossier to the FBI and they used it to open an investigation and obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign members. Unreal. No. They hired a firm to preform opposition research and they hired the former British spy. That spy turned up some stuff that he felt should go right to the FBI and handed it over. He never involved the DNC or Clinton camp in that decision. The FBI was already aware of a lot of the things the spy told them and used what he provided as supporting documentation for their FISA warrant renewal. The important part is that the FISA warrant was issued long before the spy was ever involved. The FBI was already on the case without any involvement from that spy, and Clinton/the DNC by extension.
Not entirely sure of that. a quick google check says the Steele dossier was send to the FBI in June '16 while the investigation to Trump's team began in July '16. Unless Page was under surveillance before that the initial FISA warrant could reference the dossier.
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On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo.
And yet the Republicans opted to suppress the democrats memo and not allow the FBI to draft an memo themselves.
People are going to see exactly what they want to see in this memo, which was always the goal. This is appealing to the mob at its finest.
On February 03 2018 02:39 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:32 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 02:26 MrUniverse wrote:
So, the Clinton campaign/DNC worked with a foreign spy to develop a salacious and phony dossier on Donald Trump, gave the dossier to the FBI and they used it to open an investigation and obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign members. Unreal. No. They hired a firm to preform opposition research and they hired the former British spy. That spy turned up some stuff that he felt should go right to the FBI and handed it over. He never involved the DNC or Clinton camp in that decision. The FBI was already aware of a lot of the things the spy told them and used what he provided as supporting documentation for their FISA warrant renewal. The important part is that the FISA warrant was issued long before the spy was ever involved. The FBI was already on the case without any involvement from that spy, and Clinton/the DNC by extension. Not entirely sure of that. a quick google check says the Steele dossier was send to the FBI in June '16 while the investigation to Trump's team began in July '16. Unless Page was under surveillance before that the initial FISA warrant could reference the dossier.
I believe that is the case. That Carter Page was doing some weird stuff and they pulled as FISA warrant on him. The renewal came with the Steele dossier.
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On February 03 2018 02:37 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. We have numerous sources (anonymous, but they always are with ongoing classified investigations) that the FBI was aware of information in the Steele Dossier. And multiple foreign intelligence agencies reached out with information on a connection between Trumps team and Russia. But obviously a one sided memo drafted as a political attack ad makes no mention of that...
Here's the problem with those "anonymous sources:" McCabe and Comey are both on record essentially saying that they don't matter per my comments above. McCabe testified that the dossier was the sine qua non for the FISA warrant and its renewals. And Comey said that the dossier was bullshit. I don't see a lot of room for independent verification.
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On February 03 2018 02:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:26 MrUniverse wrote:
So, the Clinton campaign/DNC worked with a foreign spy to develop a salacious and phony dossier on Donald Trump, gave the dossier to the FBI and they used it to open an investigation and obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign members. Unreal. No. They hired a firm to preform opposition research and they hired the former British spy. That spy turned up some stuff that he felt should go right to the FBI and handed it over. He never involved the DNC or Clinton camp in that decision. The FBI was already aware of a lot of the things the spy told them and used what he provided as supporting documentation for their FISA warrant renewal. The important part is that the FISA warrant was issued long before the spy was ever involved. The FBI was already on the case without any involvement from that spy, and Clinton/the DNC by extension.
And Steele had already started the work that eventually became the dossier while being paid by one of the Republican candidates...
So to sum up, a pretty reputable former spy with good connections went out, put together a dossier. Who funded the thing basically doesn't matter. It had some pretty crazy stuff, so he sent it to the intel people. The intel people noticed that his notes, which were independently gathered, matched theirs and other stuff they'd heard from other people and hey some shit is probably going on. So, they investigated further.
McCarthy would be ashamed of these amateur antics.
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On February 03 2018 01:55 xDaunt wrote:And here it is: Show nested quote +The House Intelligence Committee has released its controversial memo outlining alleged abuses of secret surveillance by the FBI and Justice Department in the Trump-Russia investigation. Here are some key points:
* The Steele dossier formed an essential part of the intial and all three renewal FISA applications against Carter Page.
* Andrew McCabe confirmed that no FISA warrant would have been sought from the FISA Court without the Steele dossier information.
* The political origins of the Steele dossier were known to senior DOJ and FBI officials, but excluded from the FISA applications.
* DOJ official Bruce Ohr met with Steele beginning in the summer of 2016 and relayed to DOJ information about Steele's bias. Steele told Ohr that he, Steele, was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected president and was passionate about him not becoming president.
The FBI and Justice Department mounted a months-long effort to keep the information outlined in the memo out of the House Intelligence Committee's hands. Only the threat of contempt charges and other forms of pressure forced the FBI and Justice to give up the material.
Once Intelligence Committee leaders and staff compiled some of that information into the memo, the FBI and Justice Department, supported by Capitol Hill Democrats, mounted a ferocious campaign of opposition, saying release of the memo would endanger national security and the rule of law.
But Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes never wavered in his determination to make the information available to the public. President Trump agreed, and, as required by House rules, gave his approval for release.
Finally, the memo released today does not represent the sum total of what House investigators have learned in their review of the FBI and Justice Department Trump-Russia investigation. That means the fight over the memo could be replayed in the future when the Intelligence Committee decides to release more information. Source.
So is that the best he's got?
Even with that articles clear bias I was not even impressed. So the best the guy who is determined to undermine the investigation has is that the dossier, which has yet to be refuted in validity was part of why investigation was launched...should they have not followed through on allegations?
I thought they would have something about how they were illegally gathering the evidence they had, but this is just nothing. There is just so much nothing that I am sort of disappointed
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On February 03 2018 02:39 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:37 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. We have numerous sources (anonymous, but they always are with ongoing classified investigations) that the FBI was aware of information in the Steele Dossier. And multiple foreign intelligence agencies reached out with information on a connection between Trumps team and Russia. But obviously a one sided memo drafted as a political attack ad makes no mention of that... Here's the problem with those "anonymous sources:" McCabe and Comey are both on record essentially saying that they don't matter per my comments above. McCabe testified that the dossier was the sine qua non for the FISA warrant and its renewals. And Comey said that the dossier was bullshit. I don't see a lot of room for independent verification.
Is McCabe's testimony public knowledge or just from this memo (and therefor completely unreliable)
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On February 03 2018 02:39 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:37 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. We have numerous sources (anonymous, but they always are with ongoing classified investigations) that the FBI was aware of information in the Steele Dossier. And multiple foreign intelligence agencies reached out with information on a connection between Trumps team and Russia. But obviously a one sided memo drafted as a political attack ad makes no mention of that... Here's the problem with those "anonymous sources:" McCabe and Comey are both on record essentially saying that they don't matter per my comments above. McCabe testified that the dossier was the sine qua non for the FISA warrant and its renewals. And Comey said that the dossier was bullshit. I don't see a lot of room for independent verification.
When did Comey said the dossier was bullshit? I believe he said parts of it were inaccurate or not confirmed. We know the part about Carter page was 100% true, because he admitted it.
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On top of the misleading aspects of the memo, it ultimately matters zero to the Mueller investigation. The tearing into Trump and his lackeys will commence as normal.
All this seems to accomplish is the further undermining of our systems of governance, which I imagine is the Trump/Republican goal. So to that end, congrats in the victory conservatives! /s
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On February 03 2018 02:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. And yet the Republicans opted to suppress the democrats memo and not allow the FBI to draft an memo themselves. People are going to see exactly what they want to see in this memo, which was always the goal. This is appealing to the mob at its finest. Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:39 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:32 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 02:26 MrUniverse wrote:
So, the Clinton campaign/DNC worked with a foreign spy to develop a salacious and phony dossier on Donald Trump, gave the dossier to the FBI and they used it to open an investigation and obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign members. Unreal. No. They hired a firm to preform opposition research and they hired the former British spy. That spy turned up some stuff that he felt should go right to the FBI and handed it over. He never involved the DNC or Clinton camp in that decision. The FBI was already aware of a lot of the things the spy told them and used what he provided as supporting documentation for their FISA warrant renewal. The important part is that the FISA warrant was issued long before the spy was ever involved. The FBI was already on the case without any involvement from that spy, and Clinton/the DNC by extension. Not entirely sure of that. a quick google check says the Steele dossier was send to the FBI in June '16 while the investigation to Trump's team began in July '16. Unless Page was under surveillance before that the initial FISA warrant could reference the dossier. I believe that is the case. That Carter Page was doing some weird stuff and they pulled as FISA warrant on him. The renewal came with the Steele dossier.
The Democrat memo is currently undergoing the same process this one did. The GOP members of the committee even voted to make it available to the whole House, as I recall.
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On February 03 2018 02:43 On_Slaught wrote:
On top of the misleading aspects of the memo, it ultimately matters zero to the Mueller investigation. The tearing into Trumps lackeys will commence as normal.
All this seems to accomplish is the further undermining of our systems of governance, which I imagine is the Trump/Republican goal. So to that end, congrats in the victory conservatives! /s
Yeah the goal is just another piece in a continuous fight to discredit the system so that when the system finds them at fault they can try to ignore it.
Same tactic they used with success against Hillary. Just keep throwing constant shit, doesn't matter if it sticks or not, in the end someone will claim to smell it.
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On February 03 2018 02:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:39 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2018 02:37 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. We have numerous sources (anonymous, but they always are with ongoing classified investigations) that the FBI was aware of information in the Steele Dossier. And multiple foreign intelligence agencies reached out with information on a connection between Trumps team and Russia. But obviously a one sided memo drafted as a political attack ad makes no mention of that... Here's the problem with those "anonymous sources:" McCabe and Comey are both on record essentially saying that they don't matter per my comments above. McCabe testified that the dossier was the sine qua non for the FISA warrant and its renewals. And Comey said that the dossier was bullshit. I don't see a lot of room for independent verification. When did Comey said the dossier was bullshit? I believe he said parts of it were inaccurate or not confirmed. We know the part about Carter page was 100% true, because he admitted it.
I went back and looked at Comey's testimony. It looks like he refused to say in an open setting whether the entirety of the dossier was false.
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On February 03 2018 02:44 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:39 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 02:33 xDaunt wrote:Yeah, it's pretty obvious why democrats and the FBI didn't want this memo out there. Heads are going to roll. The most damning fact in there is that McCabe testified that the FISA warrant would not have been sought but for the dossier. Hiding the source of the dossier and the biases associated with it from the FISA court is pretty damned bad, too. The only remaining question is whether the FBI independently verified the contents of the memo. Comey's public comments strongly suggest that the answer is no, which is bad news for the FBI and its leadership. Here's the memo. And yet the Republicans opted to suppress the democrats memo and not allow the FBI to draft an memo themselves. People are going to see exactly what they want to see in this memo, which was always the goal. This is appealing to the mob at its finest. On February 03 2018 02:39 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2018 02:32 Plansix wrote:On February 03 2018 02:26 MrUniverse wrote:
So, the Clinton campaign/DNC worked with a foreign spy to develop a salacious and phony dossier on Donald Trump, gave the dossier to the FBI and they used it to open an investigation and obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign members. Unreal. No. They hired a firm to preform opposition research and they hired the former British spy. That spy turned up some stuff that he felt should go right to the FBI and handed it over. He never involved the DNC or Clinton camp in that decision. The FBI was already aware of a lot of the things the spy told them and used what he provided as supporting documentation for their FISA warrant renewal. The important part is that the FISA warrant was issued long before the spy was ever involved. The FBI was already on the case without any involvement from that spy, and Clinton/the DNC by extension. Not entirely sure of that. a quick google check says the Steele dossier was send to the FBI in June '16 while the investigation to Trump's team began in July '16. Unless Page was under surveillance before that the initial FISA warrant could reference the dossier. I believe that is the case. That Carter Page was doing some weird stuff and they pulled as FISA warrant on him. The renewal came with the Steele dossier. The Democrat memo is currently undergoing the same process this one did. The GOP members of the committee even voted to make it available to the whole House, as I recall.
that doesn't excuse thsi horrible action by the republicans in the slightest.
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EPT
