In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
And the Iranian Revolution succeeded, you're a fan of the ayatollah too? What is this might makes right nonsense you've been constantly pushing lately? All this shows is how nuts his fanbase is
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
Trump understands that his biggest and most dangerous enemy is the media. His continuous muddying of the waters of "journalistic truth" has been tremendously damaging to the media, while simultaneously galvanizing the support of his base. Trump has always come out ahead in these exchanges, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Trump also very much wants the GOP to crash and burn. He hates them with a passion because they were mean to him and didn't kiss his ring quick enough for his tastes.
If he could populate Washington with LePages and Arpaio's he would do that in a heartbeat.
Plus they're an even better scapegoat to his base than Democrats.
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
Trump understands that his biggest and most dangerous enemy is the media. His continuous muddying of the waters of "journalistic truth" has been tremendously damaging to the media, while simultaneously galvanizing the support of his base. Trump has always come out ahead in these exchanges, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
so, is what trump is doing in that good or bad for america?
On January 23 2017 03:44 TheTenthDoc wrote: Trump also very much wants the GOP to crash and burn. He hates them with a passion because they were mean to him and didn't kiss his ring quick enough for his tastes.
Plus they're an even better scapegoat to his base than Democrats.
The GOP should be more grateful for what Trump has done for it. Trump is almost singlehandedly wiping out the GOP's structural disadvantages against the Democrats. His flipping of the board will have ramifications for years to come.
On January 23 2017 03:44 TheTenthDoc wrote: Trump also very much wants the GOP to crash and burn. He hates them with a passion because they were mean to him and didn't kiss his ring quick enough for his tastes.
Plus they're an even better scapegoat to his base than Democrats.
The GOP should be more grateful for what Trump has done for it. Trump is almost singlehandedly wiping out the GOP's structural disadvantages against the Democrats. His flipping of the board will have ramifications for years to come.
The only way the flipping will have ramifications for years is if there's a Trump 2.0 who doesn't come from the GOP (and thus the GOP will still lose). The voters responsible for shoring up the disadvantages hate the GOP and will never back an establishment candidate, even if they somehow obtain Trump's blessing despite his utter loathing for them. They failed them for decades.
The GOP was barely able to hold onto power in "their" party after attempting to co-opt the Tea Party. Adding on the idiosyncratic Trump voters is the beginning of their end.
It will let them pass almost all the bills they want for four years, though, as long as they keep things quiet.
On January 23 2017 03:44 TheTenthDoc wrote: Trump also very much wants the GOP to crash and burn. He hates them with a passion because they were mean to him and didn't kiss his ring quick enough for his tastes.
Plus they're an even better scapegoat to his base than Democrats.
The GOP should be more grateful for what Trump has done for it. Trump is almost singlehandedly wiping out the GOP's structural disadvantages against the Democrats. His flipping of the board will have ramifications for years to come.
Not if his presidency becomes toxic enough to where those swing voters who voted for him see him for what he is. This could go very well or go very very badly for both him and the GOP by extension. All up to his performance now, I don't see him being able to keep enough of those grand promises to wipe away the extensive vitriol he has incurred. The election was by a paper thin margin remember. If he wants to win reelection he has to come out ahead of where he already is. You shouldn't count on the Dems to put up someone as vulnerable to attacks as Clinton.
Unless he knows America is already in a solid place and that he can do some shallow cosmetic things and look good to those who don't know better but who knows what Trump actually thinks.
On January 23 2017 03:44 TheTenthDoc wrote: Trump also very much wants the GOP to crash and burn. He hates them with a passion because they were mean to him and didn't kiss his ring quick enough for his tastes.
Plus they're an even better scapegoat to his base than Democrats.
The GOP should be more grateful for what Trump has done for it. Trump is almost singlehandedly wiping out the GOP's structural disadvantages against the Democrats. His flipping of the board will have ramifications for years to come.
The only way the flipping will have ramifications for years is if there's a Trump 2.0 who doesn't come from the GOP (and thus the GOP will still lose). The voters responsible for shoring up the disadvantages hate the GOP and will never back an establishment candidate, even if they somehow obtain Trump's blessing despite his utter loathing for them. They failed them for decades.
It will let them pass almost all the bills they want for four years, though, as long as they keep things quiet.
Considering the attention span of voters they don't even need to keep it quiet, everyone will have forgotten after 2 weeks.
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
Trump understands that his biggest and most dangerous enemy is the truth. His continuous muddying of the waters of "journalistic truth" has been tremendously damaging to the media, while simultaneously galvanizing the support of his base. Trump has always come out ahead in these exchanges, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Fixed that for ya. Though by extension it does make the media as an institution his enemy.
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
Trump understands that his biggest and most dangerous enemy is the media. His continuous muddying of the waters of "journalistic truth" has been tremendously damaging to the media, while simultaneously galvanizing the support of his base. Trump has always come out ahead in these exchanges, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
I think Trump has a problem with truth and people who say it.
Seeing him starting his presidency with a barrage of lies about the attendance of his inauguration is pathetic, but goes to the heart of the problem: people who don't live in the new right wing fact free bubble are baddies.
And ye, it galvanizes his base as it did when he was repeating and repeating again that Obama was born in Kenya.
What does it mean for the country's overall health when "alternative facts"* are acceptable for half the population? Delusional thinking might help form constituencies that win elections, but such constituencies pressure their representatives into passing untenable domestic and international policies.
Venezuela's learning right now that reality tears wishful thinking apart eventually. I fear that what remains of the old Republican Party may end up the same way under Trump.
*I guess I can believe the Trump Team coined "alternative facts" just two days into Trump's Presidency. I still have trouble believing that TLers are defending Trump and deflecting for him.
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
Trump understands that his biggest and most dangerous enemy is the truth. His continuous muddying of the waters of "journalistic truth" has been tremendously damaging to the media, while simultaneously galvanizing the support of his base. Trump has always come out ahead in these exchanges, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Fixed that for ya. Though by extension it does make the media as an institution his enemy.
The irony of calling the media as the bearers of truth is appaling.
On January 23 2017 03:24 farvacola wrote: And it never has, which is why framing things in an honest/dishonest fashion is misleading and unproductive.
Also, here's a nice piece of moderate legislation.
A bill was introduced early January that calls for the removal of the United States from the United Nations.
According to the Congress website, H.R. 193 -- known as the American Sovereignty Restoration Act -- was introduced to the House on January 3 and referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
While its official title says it seeks to end membership in the U.N., there are several other key components of the bill which include: ending the 1947 agreement that the U.N. headquarters will be housed in the U.S., ending peacekeeping operations, removing diplomatic immunity, and ending participation in the World Health Organization.
Should the bill pass, the act and its amendments will go into effect two years after it has been signed.
The bill is sponsored by Rep. Mike D. Rogers [R-AL] and is cosponsored by six others.
Is this meaningful? Or is there some absolute loonie in congress who wrote this bill, but it's going to be laughed out of committee, and never even be voted on?
Bills to withdraw from the UN have been happening since 1997, and as recently as 2015, but have never gathered enough support to even be put to a vote. I wouldn't think much of it for now.
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
Trump understands that his biggest and most dangerous enemy is the truth. His continuous muddying of the waters of "journalistic truth" has been tremendously damaging to the media, while simultaneously galvanizing the support of his base. Trump has always come out ahead in these exchanges, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Fixed that for ya. Though by extension it does make the media as an institution his enemy.
The irony of calling the media as the bearers of truth is appaling.
Biased truth is still truth. Lies are not "alternative truth".
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
Trump understands that his biggest and most dangerous enemy is the truth. His continuous muddying of the waters of "journalistic truth" has been tremendously damaging to the media, while simultaneously galvanizing the support of his base. Trump has always come out ahead in these exchanges, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Fixed that for ya. Though by extension it does make the media as an institution his enemy.
The irony of calling the media as the bearers of truth is appaling.
Biased truth is still truth. Lies are not "alternative truth".
I think that the alternative is even scarier: that Trump genuinely trusts his ego over his own eyes. You can't lie if you believe you're telling the truth.
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him.
Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'.
Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved.
Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working?
There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd.
He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working?
What does it gain him now? Does he intend to try to burn the GOP to the ground by making as many enemies as he can? Even though he isn't a part of the GOP his actions will affect things like the mid term elections. Depending how he plays it he could very well find a congress full of people on the left who will oppose him and people on the right who also want to save their seats by standing up to him. Keep in mind he is hugely unpopular right now. Unless he can actually turn it around the strategy he employed during the election won't carry him as a sitting president.
Trump understands that his biggest and most dangerous enemy is the truth. His continuous muddying of the waters of "journalistic truth" has been tremendously damaging to the media, while simultaneously galvanizing the support of his base. Trump has always come out ahead in these exchanges, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Fixed that for ya. Though by extension it does make the media as an institution his enemy.
The irony of calling the media as the bearers of truth is appaling.
In this case, they were. We are talking about this specific instance, where Trump went nuts (by proxy, sending out his press secretary) about the press accurately reporting on the size of the crowds for his inauguration.
I don't really want to have the discussion about whether the media are, in general, bearers of truth with you, so lets keep it to this specific instance, okay?
Although regardless of the media's relation with truth, I think it's safe to say that Trump wouldn't recognize the truth if it hit him in the face.
Top staffers in Donald Trump's administration jumped to attack former CIA Director John Brennan for his criticism of Trump's rambling speech at the agency on Saturday evening.
In a statement posted to Twitter on Saturday night, former CIA Deputy Chief of Staff Nick Shapiro wrote that Brennan was "deeply saddened and angered at Trump's despicable display of self-aggrandizement" and said the President should be "ashamed of himself."
White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus suggested in an interview on "Fox News Sunday" that Brennan was "bitter" over his replacement.
"You know, he was replaced the day before. He was not asked to hold over like Clapper was," Priebus said. "I don't know what's in his head."
He said that Trump's visit to the agency was a "love fest," despite the President's repeated dismissal of the intelligence community.
"These are men and women that President Trump loves and respects," Priebus said. "And the reason he went there first was to tell them, 'I don't want you to believe the media that I don't respect you all.'"
In an interview on ABC's "This Week," senior Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway called Brennan's response an "unremarkable, spectacularly disappointing statement" and said that Brennan "sounded like a partisan political hack."
"I really think everybody needs to take a step back and a very deep breath and think about what their words are," she said.
Conway also said that Trump plans to return to the agency to accommodate more attendees at a future event.
"It's really time for him to put in his own security and intelligence community," she said. "We really would prefer the intelligence community that's going out the door to be much more respectful toward the President."
EPT
