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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 23 2017 02:24 OtherWorld wrote: Well, the Alernative Facts thing is the first real sign of something that might be dangerous. What is this? Some Twitter hashtag about Trump's lies? | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 23 2017 02:28 TheDwf wrote: What is this? Some Twitter hashtag about Trump's lies? Chuck Todd got into a lengthy and heated back-and-forth on Meet the Press this morning with Kellyanne Conway over both President Trump and Sean Spicer making crowd sizes an issue yesterday. Todd repeatedly asked her why Spicer was sent out to make a “provable falsehood” like that. Conway said this is a symbol of “the unfair and incomplete treatment” that Trump gets in the press. She said that if people in the press are going to talk about the nation’s press secretary like this, the administration may have to “rethink our relationship here.” Todd repeatedly called her out for not answering the question and told her Spicer’s false claim “undermines the credibility of the entire White House press office.” Conway shot back that he’s being “dramatic” and said that Spicer “gave alternative facts.” Todd went off and responses, “Alternative facts are not facts, they’re falsehoods!” At one point she scolded Todd for laughing at her. Todd said he wasn’t laughing, he’s “just befuddled,” but Conway told him that this is once again symbolic of the unfair treatment they’re getting. Todd got more and more frustrated as he kept confronting Conway over the press conference, asking, “What was the motive to have this ridiculous litigation of crowd size?” Conway called him out yet again, telling him, “Your job is not to call things ridiculous… You’re supposed to be a newsperson.” Watch the entire interview above, via NBC. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/alternative-facts-are-not-facts-theyre-falsehoods-chuck-todd-battles-kellyanne-conway/ | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28779 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 23 2017 02:28 TheDwf wrote: What is this? Some Twitter hashtag about Trump's lies? Nope, it's the Trump administration attempting to go back to the first level of propaganda, the "Big Lie". Straight outta NK. On January 23 2017 02:46 nojok wrote: It reminds me 1984 so hard, it's frightening. indeed | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18617 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:05 ChristianS wrote: The right has a storied history of railing against "biased media," but there is something truly concerning about a transition from calling the press merely biased to fake news, liars, etc. It calls to mind the old German slander of lugenpresse (to be clear, I'm not saying Trump is Hitler or as bad as Hitler, only that attempting to dismiss all non-state sources of political information as liars, while selling your own state-sponsored lies, is a very old and dangerous political tactic). Things like railing against biased media could never work if the media had actually been honest in the first place.... | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
EDIT: And this is why what Trump is doing is working: On January 23 2017 03:10 sharkie wrote: Things like railing against biased media could never work if the media had actually been honest in the first place.... | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:10 sharkie wrote: Things like railing against biased media could never work if the media had actually been honest in the first place.... false. you can manufacture a false impression even vs someone honest. especially when people have pre-existing biases you can utilize and fuel. especially since people aren't that good at recognizing honesty. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18617 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:14 zlefin wrote: false. you can manufacture a false impression even vs someone honest. especially when people have pre-existing biases you can utilize and fuel. especially since people aren't that good at recognizing honesty. And what makes you say that? Do you have an example that this worked on someone honest? Nope, you don't because honesty does not exist in our world. | ||
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farvacola
United States18856 Posts
Also, here's a nice piece of moderate legislation. A bill was introduced early January that calls for the removal of the United States from the United Nations. According to the Congress website, H.R. 193 -- known as the American Sovereignty Restoration Act -- was introduced to the House on January 3 and referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. While its official title says it seeks to end membership in the U.N., there are several other key components of the bill which include: ending the 1947 agreement that the U.N. headquarters will be housed in the U.S., ending peacekeeping operations, removing diplomatic immunity, and ending participation in the World Health Organization. Should the bill pass, the act and its amendments will go into effect two years after it has been signed. The bill is sponsored by Rep. Mike D. Rogers [R-AL] and is cosponsored by six others. Bill introduced to remove US from United Nations | ||
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him. EDIT: And this is why what Trump is doing is working: So basically, what you're saying is that the President's office is justified in spouting blatant lies and misinformation because of possible bias of certain media outlets?  | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22158 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:13 xDaunt wrote: Trump seems to subscribe to the General Grant theory of engaging the media. Because he is dealing with the media from a position of strength, he is going to continuously battle them wherever possible. Doing so will progressively degrade the media's ability to damage him. Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'. Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:25 Gorsameth wrote: Yes, there is a bottom limit to how disgusted people can be with you. I'm not sure bottoming it out so you cannot be damaged any more can be qualified as 'winning'. Also what position of strength? Any illusion that the White House press would be 'unbiased' has been utterly dispelled in 2? days. This isn't something you can spin as a 'different interpretation' or 'taken out of context'. We are talking strait up bold faced lies. The only people who buy Trump's bullshit are so far down the rabbit-hole that they probably cannot be saved. Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working? There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:25 Piledriver wrote: So basically, what you're saying is that the President's office is justified in spouting blatant lies and misinformation because of possible bias of certain media outlets? No, I'm not justifying what he is doing. I am only explaining why he is able to do what he is doing. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:21 sharkie wrote: And what makes you say that? Do you have an example that this worked on someone honest? Nope, you don't because honesty does not exist in our world. the history of propaganda campaigns; the vast amount of literature on sources of bias and error in people's thinking. and you've proven you're arguing in bad faith, you don't get to claim this only worked because the media wasn't honest and if they had been there'd be no problem, then claim noone is ever honest. you countered your own claim. "Things like railing against biased media could never work if the media had actually been honest in the first place..." "Nope, you don't because honesty does not exist in our world" *mic drop* | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:29 Slaughter wrote: Yea Trump is pretty much bottomed out in terms of likeability....most of the country hates him so how is what he is doing working? There is already a fair bit of buyers remorse floating around from Trump voters who aren't among the staunch supporters crowd. He has been engaged in open combat with the media since his campaign started, and he is now President of the United States. I think that the better question to ask is how is what Trump is doing not working? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18246 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:24 farvacola wrote: And it never has, which is why framing things in an honest/dishonest fashion is misleading and unproductive. Also, here's a nice piece of moderate legislation. Bill introduced to remove US from United Nations Is this meaningful? Or is there some absolute loonie in congress who wrote this bill, but it's going to be laughed out of committee, and never even be voted on? | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On January 23 2017 03:10 sharkie wrote: Things like railing against biased media could never work if the media had actually been honest in the first place.... Well that's clearly not true. I still remember in 2012 Newt Gingrich got asked about his ugly personal life and whether voters should consider that relevant to his candidacy, and he went on a tirade sbout biased media without addressing the question at all. The truth, of course, is that Newt Gingrich has one of the ugliest personal lives of any politician, and that is absolutely relevant in the minds of Republican values voters, but apparently that answer to the question played very well with Republican voters. "Biased media" talk is 9 times out of 10 just whataboutism to distract from the story at hand, quite similar to how Democrats were accused of using Russian interference to distract from the leaks. Try to get people to consider the source of the information rather than the information itself. There's a clear and dark shift, however, if he doesn't just call them "biased" but instead tells outright lies and accusing anyone who calls him on it of dishonesty. At least he's not attacking the patriotism of anyone who questions him (yet). | ||
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